52 replies to this topic

[mrak1979]

Anybody know of the best science-based anti-aging skin creams? I've heard of Geronova's Rejuv, LEF's Rejuvenight/Rejuvenex, and Revgenetics had a resveratrol-containing cream. What is the latest?

Edited by mrak1979, 10 April 2011 - 04:34 AM.

[ChooseAName]

Skin creams always seem so expensive, I've not tried any of them.

[mustardseed41]

Still the best 30 years later and probably 30 years from now......Retin-A (tretinoin)

[Bonee]

+ tazarotene

[JLL]

Yup, I would also recommend tretinoin. Only problem with it is that it can be pretty expensive (though not compared to most of the overpriced "anti-aging" junk) or unavailable without a prescription.

[mustardseed41]

Yup, I would also recommend tretinoin. Only problem with it is that it can be pretty expensive (though not compared to most of the overpriced "anti-aging" junk) or unavailable without a prescription.

Can be bought cheap overseas with no RX....done it for years myself.

[JLL]

Yup, I would also recommend tretinoin. Only problem with it is that it can be pretty expensive (though not compared to most of the overpriced "anti-aging" junk) or unavailable without a prescription.

Can be bought cheap overseas with no RX....done it for years myself.

Yeah, but none of them will ship to most Scandinavian countries anymore.

[Anthony_Loera]

Retin-A works... BUT...

the method by which it works is kind of scary for people who use it constantly (at least to me), as it works by possibly killing your cells (apoptosis) as it increases epidermal cell turnover and mitotic activity. IT's my understanding that it also inhibits telomerase to help shrink telomere's for apoptosis (possibly great for skin cancer... but I worry about using it often for regular skin).

Quick update on Sirtuin Skin Cream...
it is being reformulated to take advantage of some newly discovered data regarding sirtuins, that will be published soon.

Cheers
A

[mrak1979]

That's great new Anthony! Would be awesome if the new formulation somehow incorporated some telomerase-activating compound as well as some kind of anti-glycation agent.

[Anthony_Loera]

We may end up with two creams because of the telomere activating compounds we are considering.

Cheers.
A

[mustardseed41]

Retin-A works... BUT...

the method by which it works is kind of scary for people who use it constantly (at least to me), as it works by possibly killing your cells (apoptosis) as it increases epidermal cell turnover and mitotic activity. IT's my understanding that it also inhibits telomerase to help shrink telomere's for apoptosis (possibly great for skin cancer... but I worry about using it often for regular skin).

Quick update on Sirtuin Skin Cream...
it is being reformulated to take advantage of some newly discovered data regarding sirtuins, that will be published soon.

Cheers
A

You have no real science to back that up.....oh yea....you have a product to sell...lol

[Anthony_Loera]

Hmmm...

You have no real science to back that up.....oh yea....you have a product to sell...lol

That was nice quote mustarseed... but you do need to consider searching a bit on google scholar, as it helps with cynicism sometimes.

Personally, I was looking into it for my own reasons. You see it is very easy to buy in Mexico without a prescription. Since I was traveling to Latin America quite frequently these last few months, I started looking into this for my personal use. I figured before I started buying lots and lots of it (for myself and a few other personal friends), I should look to see how it worked. After reading about it, I found the methods it used simply defeated what we were trying to do with telomerase. Increasing cell turnover, maybe great in the short term to help heal something quickly... but increasing cell turnover also means that the cell telomere lengths become shorter earlier than normal (due to cell turnover)... it seems to me that you would be trading the appearance of youth today, while sacrificing it tomorrow.

So to sum up: Retin-A is not something I am personally pursuing anymore.
Cheers

A

=======================================================================Again, Google is your friend:



Retin-A (tretinoin)
http://www.eblue.org...0236-3/abstract

Google Scholar Results on tretinoin and 'Cell Turnover'. It certainly looks like they all state that is the method for this:
http://scholar.googl...s_ylo=&as_vis=0

I think this one is for tretinoin and apoptosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10200441




Apparently it may Inhibit Telomerase:
http://www.sciencedi...a6&searchtype=a

Here's another as well:
http://www.sciencedi...a4&searchtype=a

[mustardseed41]

Blahh...I'll take a proven winner like tretinoin over an unproven like your cream any day.

[1kgcoffee]

Has anyone tried pure vitamin E creams ala http://www.iherb.com...113-g/3848?at=0

I'm guessing it works in a similar way to retin-A

[Declmem]

What dosage of Retin-A do you guys take for anti-aging? I've taken it for decades for acne - and for people this is very rough stuff (yielding reddness in the face, rashes, over dryness, etc). The potency of the Retin-A you are using must be (hopefully) is pretty low.

For acne now I'm using Benzaclin but for antiaging I wouldn't mind using Retin-A at a low dose. Let me know what you guys recommend.

Thanks!

[mustardseed41]

What dosage of Retin-A do you guys take for anti-aging? I've taken it for decades for acne - and for people this is very rough stuff (yielding reddness in the face, rashes, over dryness, etc). The potency of the Retin-A you are using must be (hopefully) is pretty low.

For acne now I'm using Benzaclin but for antiaging I wouldn't mind using Retin-A at a low dose. Let me know what you guys recommend.

Thanks!

This is a great link explaining how to use Retin-A (Tretinoin) http://www.skinacea....t-part-one.html
Start with the .025% and eventually use the .05%
The reason so many people give up on it or are scared to use it is they are not informed about how to use it correctly.
Go SLOWLY when starting.

[mustardseed41]

Has anyone tried pure vitamin E creams ala http://www.iherb.com...113-g/3848?at=0

I'm guessing it works in a similar way to retin-A

Nope no comparison as far as effect.

[Anthony_Loera]

Blahh...I'll take a proven winner like tretinoin ...

First forget the cream we make, in fact... don't buy it at all (heck we are not even selling any at all!).

Ok... now relax.
Now read the studies about tretinoi that I posted earlier.
If you need to be educated on what telomerase is and what cell turnover can do in the long run, then do so and then decide rationaly if tretinoi is for you.

From your last post that I quoted above, it certainly appears you either don't know about cell turnover is and it's definite consequences over your lifetime, or you have decided being pretty without wrinkles short term trumps getting wrinkles ealier in life a little later... (don't get me wrong, that is a completely valid decision as well). I know folks who (including my mother in law) that likes Retin-A even though she knows that her skin may become more wrinkly than expected sooner in age say than her sister. I am sure she believes technology will help her at a later time.

Bahh... I suppose it doesn't matter...
you already figured whats best for you and I am not here to preach to you. I am here however to make sure that others who may care more about longevity than you do, know that the science shows tretino is likely a complete loser when used long-term.

That is probably the reason why it's prescribed and not sold over the counter, eh?

Cheers
A

[mustardseed41]

I know folks who (including my mother in law) that likes Retin-A even though she knows that her skin may become more wrinkly than expected sooner in age say than her sister.

This is so absurd I almost fell out of my chair. The exact opposite of this is true. Ask most any Derm. Heck do a poll. Why am I even bothering with you. Good grief.

[mustardseed41]

Many people have been using Retin-A for well over 20 years. Wonder why they don't look older than their peers???????????????????
Take your philosophy over to the skin forum and you will get laughed off.

[niner]

I know folks who (including my mother in law) that likes Retin-A even though she knows that her skin may become more wrinkly than expected sooner in age say than her sister.

Anthony, this sounds like a theoretical worry, but what's the clinical evidence? I thought the consensus was that the longer you used retinoids, the better. Could this be because epithelia is made to proliferate, and telomerase is present and active in the appropriate stem cells? We shed skin constantly, so if we were turnover-limited, I would think we'd be in trouble whether we used retinoids or not.

[Recortes]

Blahh...I'll take a proven winner like tretinoin ...

First forget the cream we make, in fact... don't buy it at all (heck we are not even selling any at all!).

Ok... now relax.
Now read the studies about tretinoi that I posted earlier.
If you need to be educated on what telomerase is and what cell turnover can do in the long run, then do so and then decide rationaly if tretinoi is for you.

From your last post that I quoted above, it certainly appears you either don't know about cell turnover is and it's definite consequences over your lifetime, or you have decided being pretty without wrinkles short term trumps getting wrinkles ealier in life a little later... (don't get me wrong, that is a completely valid decision as well). I know folks who (including my mother in law) that likes Retin-A even though she knows that her skin may become more wrinkly than expected sooner in age say than her sister. I am sure she believes technology will help her at a later time.

Bahh... I suppose it doesn't matter...
you already figured whats best for you and I am not here to preach to you. I am here however to make sure that others who may care more about longevity than you do, know that the science shows tretino is likely a complete loser when used long-term.

That is probably the reason why it's prescribed and not sold over the counter, eh?

Cheers
A

Anthony,

I'm sure you are right about your concerns on Retin-A for long term use. However, I must say I'm taking with more and more skepticism your posts about Telomeres.
I don't have the documentation and background to reject or accepts your views, but I have enough time to read a bit here and there. In particular, Vincent Giuliano is part of this community
and has a wonderful blog on anti-aging, he has a rich scientific background to understand what he talks about, and more importantly has ZERO commercial interests, he just want like any other eldder man to extend his life. He has studied throughly the subject of telomeres and has arrived to the conclusion that extending telomere lengths is not necessarily anti-aging. I guess this does not benefit the telomere extension supplement business.


For the benefit of the forum, I copy an extract of his blog:

http://anti-agingfir...n-of-telomeres/

Wrapping it up

Key take-away observations from this richness of materials are:

· Telomere lengths tend to get shorter with age but not necessarily uniformly either in time or within a population cohort. As Dr. Barzilai points out in the video, some centenarians have longer telomeres than other people 30 years their junior. Telomere lengths are regulated dynamically with complex epigenetic factors playing central roles.

· The epigenetic factors regulate telomere lengths via several pathways and a newly-discovered RNA called TERRA is a central actor in that regulation. One of the key mechanisms involved in GPC island methylation of the hTERT telomerase gene.

· This epigenetic regulation is how lifestyle and dietary factors affect telomere lengths, a matter I have discussed extensively in previous blog entries. Chronic stress leads to shorter telomeres; a stable and happy lifestyle leads to longer ones, etc.

· Since epigenetic factors affect telomere lengths and shortened telomere lengths themselves generate epigenetic changes that have multiple impacts on cell biology, it appears that both of the following statements are true “Aging drives telomere lengths” and “Telomere lengths drive aging.” It is a chicken-and-egg situation.

· This does not mean that interventions aimed at extending telomere lengths are necessarily anti-aging interventions. Such interventions can normalize lifespans of mice whose lives are shorter because of induced telomerase deficiency, but have not been shown to extend the lives of normal mice. See the blog entry Mouse age reversal – very interesting but misrepresented research.

· Personally, I think we are already past the time to give up the simplistic notion that normal people can take a telomerase-activator supplement and therefore assure having longer telomeres and live longer. Neither our basic understanding nor experimental studies bear that conjecture out. On the other hand there is much research pointing to simple and practical lifestyle and dietary interventions that are likely to keep telomeres longer. See my blog entry Part2: lifestyle, dietary, and other factors associated with telomere shortening and lengthening.

· We still have only an initial and incomplete understanding of how the epigenetic programming of telomeres related to TERRA works. That whole area of research is barely 3 years old though other aspects of telomere biology have been studied for decades. As we learn more about it, we may pick up additional practical tips on how to live longer. Avanti!

[Recortes]

Another bullet, from Vicentn Guiliano

http://anti-agingfir...all-regimen/For example, by November of 2010 there was more published knowledge about telomerase biology and telomerase and the depth of my personal knowledge about this field had increased very significantly. Based on this knowledge I decided to discontinue use of cycloastragenol or any other specialized commercial “telomerase activator.” See the March 2011 blog entry The epigenetic regulation of telomeres.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hey,

I haven't used it for 20 years, I just read the studies and make up my own mind.
So laugh at me if I try to educate myself on this and arrive at a different decision than you have.

I definitely prefer you laughing at me, instead of following you blindly while disregarding the science and methods that Retin-A uses.
So Laugh away, I am truly happy with my decision not to follow you.

Cheers
A

[Anthony_Loera]

Recortes,

I believe I knew Vincent before most folks here (2008) and posted a link to his site from our own commercial site years ago. He's a great guy.
Also, this thread is not about telomerase. It's about creams (which we currently don't even sell!).

Since you don't visit the RevGen website, I can understand that you don't know what our cycloastragenol product states: Here is what we state on our product page (and it has been there for quite a long time):

The 2009 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine:
Dr. Elizabeth Blackburn won the 2009 Nobel Prize in her work regarding Telomeres and Telomerase, however during a discussion on Telomeres she distinctly mentioned that telomeres shrink at different rates depending on the type of cell it is. Since telomeres shorten at different rates depending on the type of cell and because UCLA's tests focused on the immune cells, we currently believe it may not be very accurate to say that any orally taken telomerase activator greatly helps cells other than those in your immune system. However, supporting a strong immune system is vital for longevity. We believe that Astral Fruit is simply the world's most effective telomerase supplement because our own material was sent for testing, and identified to activate telomerase using human blood cells in a lab: (Dr. V - Preliminary Findings).


Keep up Recortes, don't get left behind.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 15 April 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[sapentia]

Are there actually any studies showing that increased cell turnover in skin cells leads to a corresponding increase in telomere shortening or are we merely assuming this is the case? Just because this may be true for other cell types in the body doesn't necessarily mean it holds true for skin cells. Even if it is true does it necessarily correspond to a proportional decline in skin quality?

I understand Anthony's logic, but it leaves something to be desired when considering the reality of it. We know that those who properly use tretinoin over a significant time frame, a decade or two, will look significantly younger than similarly aged peers with all other things being equal. If what Anthony speculates is true then it would follow that the tretinoin users would have to experience a rapid and precipitous decline in skin quality at some point to come to a state of equal skin status with same age peers. This seems unlikely to me though I have nothing to back up my viewpoint. I personally use either Retin-A or Tazarac every other day. They are scientifically shown to increase both collagen and elastin synthesis in the skin over controls.

I still don't think we have a full enough understanding with respect to telomeres and aging to draw any full conclusions. That should be clear by the significant lack of scientific agreement with regard to supposed telomerase activators.

[triplecrown]

Slightly off topic, but if what Anthony says is true in that every time our cells die off and divide telomeres shorten, Wouldn't that put other things at risk for causing telomere shortening? For instance everytime we excercise, whether it be running, weight lifting, etc we are damaging and somewhat killing our cells(mainly red blood cells). Are we reducing the telomere lengths of those cells everytime we excercise and therefore making a excercise equals=bad scenario play out in the long run?

Edited by triplecrown, 15 April 2011 - 09:03 PM.

[tintinet]

Slightly off topic, but if what Anthony says is true in that every time our cells die off and divide telomeres shorten, Wouldn't that put other things at risk for causing telomere shortening? For instance everytime we excercise, whether it be running, weight lifting, etc we are damaging and somewhat killing our cells(mainly red blood cells). Are we reducing the telomere lengths of those cells everytime we excercise and therefore making a excercise equals=bad scenario play out in the long run?

Fer sure, life 'l kill ya. IIRC, the CRON folks eschew needless exercise and activity. Better to sit and lie about and eat almost nothing, perhaps.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony, this sounds like a theoretical worry...

At this point it is niner... I am just taking a cautious approach on this one.

Cheers
A

[Justchill]

What would you guys advise for dark circles under the eyes and "heavy" eyes after a short night of sleep? Is Q10 good?