79 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

What the hell happened? I burnt a series of mediation programs from brainwave generator onto CD. Last night at 7pm I decided to try the basic meditation program. I tried it and felt very very tired aftwards. My partner Natalie arrived home from work at about 7.20pm and I suggested she try it. After all I made the CD specifically for her. She tried and fell asleep afterwards.

this is very unusually for us as we both have our nightly routine that we missed because we both fell into a deep sleep. I woke up at 10.30am this morning still feeling tired. I slept roughly 14 hours! My partner said that she also woke up feeling very tired and she slept 11 hours.

WTF mate^^

Look I am going do a 10 minutes session now, providing I don't fall asleep afterwards, I'll report back immediately after the meditation

Wish me luck

[zoolander]

I just completed 10minutes basic mediation with brainwave generator. I don't feel zonked out like I did last night but I do feel clearer.

Brainwave generator degeats the purpose for me. I am dostracted/absorbed by the sound going into my ears and hence cannot really focs on my breath. I cannot really see my thought process. I become totally absorbed by the sound. I would prefer not to be. I'm trying to sit naturally with the breath and I can't.

I will most likely not continue to use BWG for meditation. I may use it for other things though. I can also see how BWG would be extremely helpful for those who find it hard to deal with the mental chatter.

[Athanasios]

I just completed 10minutes basic mediation with brainwave generator. I don't feel zonked out like I did last night but I do feel clearer.

Brainwave generator degeats the purpose for me. I am dostracted/absorbed by the sound going into my ears and hence cannot really focs on my breath. I cannot really see my thought process. I become totally absorbed by the sound. I would prefer not to be. I'm trying to sit naturally with the breath and I can't.

I will most likely not continue to use BWG for meditation. I may use it for other things though. I can also see how BWG would be extremely helpful for those who find it hard to deal with the mental chatter.

Try it one more time with the volume so low that it is barely audible. The volume does not have to be high for it to work. In fact, if it makes your ears tense up any, if that makes sense, it will be too distracting. Put it very low, and let the sound just be. Do not focus on it.

[zoolander]

the portable CD player that I used was on the lowest setting

[Athanasios]

Oh well....hard to beat the benefits of doing it ol' school style

[zoolander]

I will play around with it

[REGIMEN]

Zoolander, consider reburning the program onto cd at a lower volume. That or just shift the headphones off your ears a bit.

I have noticed at times I can't stand using entrainment programs. Having seen your regimen it may well be that many of the "focus" type supps you take are putting you into mental state that does not match well with multiple input streams (ie: listening to music/conversation while also reading/writing/watching/studying). There are times I can and can't listen to music while going through readings/calculations which may be a symptom of myriad sources so give the programs a try at different times/moods. I would actually recommend doing some relax/sleep type entrainments for a few weeks and then trying to move into focus/waking type entrainments. Or the other way around. Maybe just try one end of the spectrum and avoid the other. I figure if your sleep is fine then don't bugger with it and only try the waking entrainments ...and vice versa. It ain't no hard science yet...

Edited by liplex, 09 January 2007 - 07:14 PM.

[the big b]

Get audacity or any other decent audio editor
Synthesise a sine wave in the left channel of 440hz
Synthesis a sine wave in the right channel of 440+Xhz where X is whatever frequency you want to get to
Listen to it for at least 20 minutes with headphones
Focus on it
Enjoy

Sometimes mixing some music or pink noise can help if you find pure sine waves unpleasant. I've experimented with modulating the music itself and get some interesting effects, but only anecdotal evidence. If anyone would like an example try this:
http://shell.garethn...nauralbeats.ogg
Others who have listened to this claim it makes them feel a little bit sick, I find it greatly aids focus, but this may be due to the normal effect that music has upon me. I get a lesser effect with pure sine waves for focus, but have found that binaural beats at 440hz in the left channel and 444hz in the right channel can put me to sleep in minutes.

I avoid commercial binaural/relaxation/meditation/hypnosis tapes/CDs for several reasons. The most important one is that I don't know how effective they are or even if some kind of subliminal crap is in there.

I've got to say that I've found this thread extremely helpful and interesting. But I'm having trouble finding an accurate frequency chart for brain waves, since wikipedia itself has two opposing charts in articles that are related to each other. But they do have listed in one "The precise boundaries between ranges vary among definitions, and there is no universally accepted standard."

Anyway, if my understanding is correct, these would be the proper ratios for making Sine Tones for each type of brainwave.

~Examples of Sine Tones:
*Delta: 440hz left & 444hz right (4hz or less)
*Theta: 440hz left & 448hz right (4hz - 8hz)
*Alpha: 440hz left & 452hz right (8hz - 12hz)
*Sensorimotor Rhythm: 440hz left & 456hz right (12hz - 16hz)
*Beta: 440hz left & 466hz right (12hz - 26hz)
*Gamma: 440hz left & 470hz right (26hz - 100hz) (Difference must be 30hz or below)

And for a little side note: Gamma waves must not be attainable, or if attainable, just barely. Since the difference between the two frequencies must be small (below about 30 Hz) for the effect to occur; otherwise the two tones will be distinguishable and no beat will be perceived. And I've seen the Gamma waves placed at 40hz or more and 26hz or more, leaving little or no window.

Here are some useful links:

*Binaural Beats (Or "binaural tones" are auditory processing artifacts, that is apparent sounds, the perception of which arises in the brain independent of physical stimuli.)

*Electroencephalography (The neurophysiologic measurement of the electrical activity of the brain by recording from electrodes placed on the scalp or, in special cases, subdurally or in the cerebral cortex.) {Scroll down to "Activity types" for the ranges of Brain Waves}

*Brainwave Synchronization (Also called "Brainwave Entrainment", the practice to entrain one's brainwaves to a desired frequency.)

*Mind Machine (The process is also known as brainwave synchronization or entrainment, Mind machines typically consist of a control unit, a pair of headphones and/or strobe light goggles.) {Using alpha frequencies with visual stimuli can trigger photosensitive epilepsy. 1,2}

*Neurofeedback (Also called neurotherapy, neurobiofeedback or EEG biofeedback is a controversial therapy technique that presents the user with realtime feedback on brainwave activity.)

Historically four major types of continuous rhythmic sinusoidal EEG activity are recognized (alpha, beta, delta and theta). There is no precise agreement on the frequency ranges for each type.

-Delta is the frequency range up to 4 Hz and is often associated with the very young and certain encephalopathies and underlying lesions. It is seen in stage 3 and 4 sleep.

-Theta is the frequency range from 4 Hz to 8 Hz and is associated with drowsiness, childhood, adolescence and young adulthood. This EEG frequency can sometimes be produced by hyperventilation. Theta waves can be seen during hypnagogic states such as trances, hypnosis, deep day dreams, lucid dreaming and light sleep and the preconscious state just upon waking, and just before falling asleep.

-Alpha (Berger's wave) is the frequency range from 8 Hz to 12 Hz. It is characteristic of a relaxed, alert state of consciousness. Alpha rhythms are best detected with the eyes closed. Alpha attenuates with drowsiness and open eyes, and is best seen over the occipital (visual) cortex. An alpha-like normal variant called mu is sometimes seen over the motor cortex (central scalp) and attenuates with movement, or rather with the intention to move.

-Sensorimotor Rhythm (SMR) is a middle frequency (about 12–16 Hz) associated with physical stillness and body presence.

-Beta is the frequency range above 12 Hz. Low amplitude beta with multiple and varying frequencies is often associated with active, busy or anxious thinking and active concentration. Rhythmic beta with a dominant set of frequencies is associated with various pathologies and drug effects, especially benzodiazepines.

-Gamma is the frequency range approximately 26–100 Hz. Gamma rhythms appear to be involved in higher mental activity, including perception, problem solving, fear, and consciousness.

Rhythmic slow activity in wakefulness is common in young children, but is abnormal in adults. In addition to the above types of rhythmic activity, individual transient waveforms such as sharp waves, spikes, spike-and-wave complexes occur in epilepsy, and other types of transients occur during sleep.

In the transition from wakefulness, through Stage I sleep (drowsiness), Stage II (light) sleep, to Stage III and IV (deep) sleep, first the alpha becomes intermittent and attenuated, then disappears. Stage II sleep is marked by brief bursts of highly rhythmic beta activity (sleep spindles) and K complexes (transient slow waves associated with spindles, often triggered by an auditory stimulus). Stage III and IV are characterized by slow wave activity. After a period of deep sleep, the sleeper cycles back to stage II sleep and/or rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, associated with dreaming. These cycles may occur many times during the night.

EEG under general anesthesia depends on the type of anesthetic employed. With halogenated anesthetics and intravenous agents such as propofol, a rapid (alpha or low beta), nonreactive EEG pattern is seen over most of the scalp, especially anteriorly; in some older terminology this was known as a WAR (widespread anterior rapid) pattern, contrasted with a WAIS (widespread slow) pattern associated with high doses of opiates. Anesthetic effects on EEG signals are beginning to be understood at the level of drug actions on different kinds of synapses and the circuits that allow synchronized neuronal activity (see: http://www.stanford....up/maciverlab/).

[Centurion]

What the hell happened? I burnt a series of mediation programs from brainwave generator onto CD. Last night at 7pm I decided to try the basic meditation program. I tried it and felt very very tired aftwards. My partner Natalie arrived home from work at about 7.20pm and I suggested she try  it. After all I made the CD specifically for her. She tried and fell asleep afterwards.

this is very unusually for us as we both have our nightly routine that we missed because we both fell into a deep sleep. I woke up at 10.30am this morning still feeling tired. I slept roughly 14 hours! My partner said that she also woke up feeling very tired and she slept 11 hours.

WTF mate^^

Look I am going do a 10 minutes session now, providing I don't fall asleep afterwards, I'll report back immediately after the meditation

Wish me luck

lol! I get freaked out when i feel myself losing consciousness with binaural beats running.
:D Didnt know your partner was called Natalie? Natalie is one of the nicer names for sure

[garethnelsonuk]

Regarding gamma - i've had the effect work perfectly well all the way up in the 100hz+ range. I either have a freaky brain or this is inaccurate (though the former is not that unlikely).

[the big b]

Regarding gamma - i've had the effect work perfectly well all the way up in the 100hz+ range. I either have a freaky brain or this is inaccurate (though the former is not that unlikely).

Really? Interesting... What effects from the Gamma waves did you notice? I find it quite strange that they are associated with both Problem Solving & Fear, seems like polar opposites to me.

[garethnelsonuk]

40hz - nice and awake and able to do things
60hz - adrenaline kicks in (pulse goes up etc)
100hz+ - very anxious, a few auditory hallucinations (mainly musical, i heard odd combinations of bits of music i've heard - like slipknot playing mozart and such)

It seems that the higher the frequency, the more stimulated/anxious i get

[zoolander]

This just out girls and boys

J Altern Complement Med. 2007 Jan;13(1):25-32.
   
Binaural beat technology in humans: a pilot study to assess psychologic and physiologic effects.


        * Wahbeh H,
        * Calabrese C,
        * Zwickey H.

    Helfgott Research Institute, National College of Natural Medicine, Portland, OR.

    Introduction: Binaural beat technology (BBT) products are sold internationally as personal development and health improvement tools. Producers suggest benefit from regular listening to binaural beats including reduced stress and anxiety, and increased focus, concentration, motivation, confidence, and depth in meditation. Binaural beats are auditory brainstem responses that originate in the superior olivary nucleus as a result of different frequency auditory stimuli provided to each ear. Listeners to binaural beat "hear" a beat at a frequency equal to the difference between the frequencies of the applied tones. Objectives: The objectives of this pilot study were to gather preliminary data on psychologic and physiologic effects of 60 days daily use of BBT for hypothesis generation and to assess compliance, feasibility, and safety for future studies. Design: Uncontrolled pilot study. Subjects: Eight healthy adults participated in the study. Intervention: Participants listened to a CD with delta (0-4 Hz) binaural beat frequencies daily for 60 days. Outcome Measures: Psychologic and physiological data were collected before and after a 60-day intervention. Psychologic: Depression (Beck Depression Inventory-2), anxiety (State-Trait Anxiety Inventory), mood (Profile of Mood States), absorption (Tellegen Absorption Scale) and quality of Life (World Health Organization-Quality of Life Inventory). Physiological: Cortisol, dehydroepiandrosterone, melatonin, insulin-like growth factor-1, serotonin, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, weight, blood pressure, high sensitivity C-reactive protein. Results: There was a decrease in trait anxiety (p = 0.004), an increase in quality of life (p = 0.03), and a decrease in insulin-like growth factor-1 (p = 0.01) and dopamine (p = 0.02) observed between pre- and postintervention measurements. Conclusions: Binaural beat technology may exhibit positive effect on self-reported psychologic measures, especially anxiety. Further research is warranted to explore the effects on anxiety using a larger, randomized and controlled trial.

    PMID: 17309374 [PubMed - in process]

[thereverend5]

i tried it, but got nothing from it... but i wasnt using the right headphones.

most headphones are not capable of producing the frequencies that those brainwave generators make. so the software is telling the hardware to do something its simply not capable of.

they should have a list of approved headphones on the website somewhere i would imagine

Most headphones go from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, which is the range of anything the human ear can even sense. I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong.

[garethnelsonuk]

If you can hear it, the headphones are outputting it.

[donjoe]

I'll try generating my own stuff with GoldWave, mainly for meditation (alpha) and concentration at work (higher alpha; beta). I remember the program can generate sounds as functions, so I'm probably going to make myself a couple of "recipes" - a 15 -> 10 Hz slow transition for calming down into meditation, an 8 -> 20 Hz transition for getting back on track at work etc.

I'm falling asleep just fine with the radio on at very low volume, so I probably don't need a theta or delta transition. Still, I can't help wondering how the Hell you guys manage to fall asleep comfortably while wearing headphones.

[garethnelsonuk]

Personally I use the binaural BEFORE going to bed then take the headphones off when I get upstairs (computer is downstairs).

[donjoe]

Aha. That makes sense. If feeling too agitated to fall asleep, one could do a 15 -> 5 Hz transition and then crawl into bed with eyes half closed to go the rest of the way down naturally.

[tracer]

i tried it, but got nothing from it... but i wasnt using the right headphones.

most headphones are not capable of producing the frequencies that those brainwave generators make. so the software is telling the hardware to do something its simply not capable of.

they should have a list of approved headphones on the website somewhere i would imagine

Most headphones go from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, which is the range of anything the human ear can even sense. I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong.

The problem with headphones is that they do not usually demonstrate a linear frequency response. Something as silly as a dirty jack can cause capacitive effects, which may interact with inductive components to create holes/peaks in the frequency response. It's usually not significant, but since binaural beats depend on frequency difference it all depends on where in the freqency spectrum the right and left portions of the beats are placed. Usually (with NP anyway) they are somewhere in the middle so you can theoretically get away with any inexpensive pair of headphones... theoretically.

[blueinfinity]

Well folks... I've tried it. In fact, I use it almost all the time when working at my PC in anti-ADD mode...

Combine that with a fairly rigorous nootropic regimen, and I feel like I can reach out and crush things with my mind (usually incredibly complex problems)

i know this is old post but...
Wow, maybe its your wording but i would like this ability, whats your regimen look like