86 replies to this topic

[thedevinroy]

Also called Flowering Quince, Japanese Quince, Mu Gua, Sweet Nakai, and Chaenomeles Lagenaria.

From http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18485464

Common flowering quince (FQ) is the fruit of Chaenomeles speciosa (Sweet) Nakai. FQ-containing cocktails have been applied to the treatment of neuralgia, migraine, and depression in traditional Chinese medicine. The present study assessed whether FQ is effective in dopamine transporter (DAT) regulation and antiparkinsonism by utilizing in vitro and in vivo assays, respectively. FQ at concentrations of 1-1000 microg/ml concentration-dependently inhibited dopamine uptake by Chinese hamster ovary (CHO) cells stably expressing DAT (D8 cells) and by synaptosomes. FQ had a slight inhibitory action on norepinephrine uptake by CHO cells expressing the norepinephrine transporter and no inhibitory effect on gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) uptake by CHO cells expressing GABA transporter-1 or serotonin uptake by the serotonin transporter. A viability assay showed that FQ mitigated 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium-induced toxicity in D8 cells. Furthermore, in behavioral studies, FQ alleviated rotational behavior in 6-hydroxydopamine-treated rats and improved deficits in endurance performance in 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP)-treated mice. Furthermore, immunohistochemistry revealed that FQ markedly reduced the loss of tyrosine hydroxylase-positive neurons in the substantia nigra in MPTP-treated mice. In summary, FQ is a selective, potent DAT inhibitor and has antiparkinsonian-like effects that are mediated possibly by DAT suppression. FQ has the potential to be further developed for Parkinson's disease treatment.

This means that it is a NDI at that concentration of 1-1000 miligrams per Liter. Not sure it's bioavailability, but typical dosing schedule for normal chinese medicinal herbs is to take 1 gram at 5x strength extract 3x a day. It ends up being about 30 cents a day.

From http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18505483

The aim of this study was to evaluate several plant extracts with a view to developing melanogenesis inhibitors. In this study, 100 plant extracts were screened to elucidate their whitening effects using in vitro inhibition of tyrosinase and DOPA auto-oxidation activity. Several plant extracts such as Chaenomeles speciosa, Dryopteris crassirhizoma, Gastrodia ellata, Glycyrrhiza glabra, Morus alba, Myristica fragrans, Rheum palmatum and Sophora japonica showed inhibition of mushroom tyrosinase activity. Plant extracts including Bupleurum falcatum, Caragana sinica, Morus alba and Tussilago farfara showed inhibition of DOPA auto-oxidation activity.

Tyosinase isn't as high in mammals, but we still have some. It oxidizes (degrades) tyrosine and DOPA, I believe. Anyhow, the study was done to find a whitening agent (melanogenesis inhibitors). I guess it means it keeps me from tanning? I don't know what the relationship between tyrosinase and melanogenesis is... guess there is some... http://onlinelibrary...0604.x/abstract but I don't see that as a bad or a good thing, otherwise I'd be racist. It's just a strange side effect.

There are plenty of other studies on the herb. http://www.ncbi.nlm....eles%20speciosa

It's an anti-inflammatory, too.

What do you guys think of this herb as a potential dopaminergic nootropic?

Edited by devinthayer, 15 July 2011 - 07:44 PM.

[thedevinroy]

Protecting effect of Chaenomeles speciosa broth on immunosuppressive mice induced by cyclophosphamide (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20034222)

OBJECTIVE:
To investigate the effects of Chaenomeles speciosa broth on immunoregulation for anti-tumor chemotherapy.

METHODS:
Immunosuppressive model was induced by cyclophosphamide (CTX) in mice. The mice were treated with the broth for 15 days. The serum hemolysin was observed in mouse sera. Spleen lymphocyte transformation and gene transcription related to the immunoregulation in spleen lymphocytes were detected.

RESULTS:
After administrated the broth, the serum hemolysin and lymphocyte transformation rates significantly increased and the mRNA expression of foxp3, TGF-beta, PD1, Fas, Bax were downregulated compared with CTX-group.

CONCLUSION:
Chaenomeles speciosa broth has protective effects on the immunosuppressive mouse induce by CTX.

The thing that jumps out to me is Bax. Lithium also has a negative effect on Bax, and is thus able to to treat and prevent Parkinson's (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15111020) and protect against permanent methamphetamine damage (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19149911). Perhaps Chaenomeles Speciosa also upregulates tyrosine hydroxylase and is therefore a treatment for Parkinson's in addition to its Dopamine transporter inactivation activity.

[thedevinroy]

Another study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20873569 . Chaenomeles speciosa contains "oleanolic acid" a strong antitumor and antiviral compound. Extraction of this chemical would be useful in treating HIV patients.

I just want to add that Mu Gua is really inexpensive of an extract. It was less than $30 for a half kilogram. A 4:1 extract should yield a positive result with a 250mg-1000mg dose. Most herbal medicine is taken as 1 gram of pure powder form. Not sure how strong this is, but I'd be willing to try it if I hear some good reviews.

[RS3RS]

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to bump it up anyway. I'm considering ordering some of this on Monday for a self guinea pig experiment. Since a year or so had passed since this thread was created, wondering if anyone has tried it out?

[medievil]

Barely any replie's here? comeone fella's tell med wheter we got a nice plantstim here!

[medievil]

http://herbs.maxforu...-psoralea-cory/
http://www.dr-bob.or...gs/1017886.html

So does like there are some good dari's in nature, atleast those little anecdotes are kinda positive, opium poppies, mescaline and ibogaine also occurs in nature wich means nature doesnt allways do weak!

[eon]

just looking into the chaenomeles speciosa as well for the dopamine reuptake inhibitor (DRI) activity, since it seems to be related to papayas or the quince fruit I wonder what a supplement (or the actual fruit itself) could do? I've had papaya before and I just recently saw a quince fruit for sale at Wlamrt but no one seem to buy them as they start to rot. I may try one soon. I think it's a dollar or so a piece, might be more. I forgot. I would prefer a capsule or tea form of chaenomeles speciosa though as my DRI as I don't want to go the pharmaceutical route yet.

[Ehren Maldonado]

veyr intertesting can this be used as natural adderall?

[eon]

I hope so. I wished it was widely available, and hoping the quince fruit would have something special as well since both are related.

 

veyr intertesting can this be used as natural adderall?

 

Edited by eon, 29 December 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[protoject]

was it chaenomeles that had some negative effect on health? or am i thinking of some other similar herb? I think there was this herb and also another one that had a similar effect

 

edit: maybe it was kanna

Edited by protoject, 29 December 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[eon]

I found one here:

 

http://www.herbalsho...act-powder.html

 

While I prefer something that is already "prepared" like in a capsule or a tincture, I found another one here as partial ingredient:

 

http://www.herbalsho...act-powder.html

 

It is not marketed as anything for dopamine but for other concerns.

[eon]

well St. John's Wort constituents "hyperforin and adhyperforin" are also listed as a DRI:

 

http://en.wikipedia....ptake_inhibitor

 

I can't remember being dopaminergic when I was on it. Maybe I wasn't using the right dose or brand? Maybe St. John's Wort isn't all that? I think it contributed to my serotonin syndrome, considering it is listed as a contributing factor:

 

http://en.wikipedia....otonin_syndrome

 

Even Zoloft (Sertraline) was listed as "other DRIs"! Seriously? SSRIs also contribute to serotonin syndrome!

 

Maybe Chaenomeles speciosa is simply better?

 

An herbalist who sells some other chaenomeles species recently informed me:

 

"Chaenomeles speciosa however is considered to have the same properties as the more commonly used species Chaenomeles lagenaria and Chaenomeles sinensis."

 

At the start of the thread, OP mentioned lagenaria, so could that mean it's as potent as speciosa?

 

There's products for sale that include the lagenaria species:

 

Frame Builder:

 

http://www.dragonher....asp?number=254

 

Hair and Nails:

 

http://www.dragonher....asp?number=224

 

This one has the sinensis species:

 

F06: (not sure what this stand for btw):

 

http://www.dragonher....asp?number=F06

[eon]

OK so I bought 2 pieces of the quince fruit. I had to google on how to eat them as these are notoriously hard fruits. google search points to cooking and making a jam out of quince. rarely eaten raw. is that true? Do I eat the skin or just the insides? If this has to be cooked, no wonder they aren't flying off the shelves at walmart. From what I've read these aren't sweet, but the sweet smell is deceiving.

[The Brain]

What effects are you hoping to notice from two pieces of fruit ?

[eon]

it was off topic, but the fruit is the fruit of the flowering quince, which is a quince fruit. I doubt any dopaminergic effects would come out of the fruit. I was asking on how these are eaten.

 

What effects are you hoping to notice from two pieces of fruit ?

 

Edited by eon, 02 January 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[The Brain]

Ah ok, I remember as a kid my sisters and mother would make a jam/marmalade from them

[eon]

never eaten as is? these fruits seem to come by rarely as this was my first time I think of ever seeing them at Walmart. I don't believe I've ever had it. I will know once I taste it.

 

Ah ok, I remember as a kid my sisters and mother would make a jam/marmalade from them

 

[The Brain]

From a vague memory I have of them from a tree we had they are quite overpowering as a eaten fruit, not as bad as trying a lemon but still quite a challenge and more used in jams, I also remember a paste type thing for use as a spread or layered as a fruit flavour in baking.

[eon]

i've read from google search one way to eat them is to boil them in water and sweeten with sugar. 

[The Brain]

So I got some of this quince extract/Mu Gua today and took 3grams waited half an hour which is the length of time of an anecdotal report on the net said it took to take effect and there was nothing noticeable for me, another 3 grams also has provided no results, not even a hint of anything. Taking into account that I seem to be a non responder to most herbal or nootropic type substances this is no surprise to me just another disappointment and another thing to strike off the list. Will try higher doses at some point but don't expect anything spectacular will come from it.

[eon]

Do you know which type is it? I think it matters what breed it is. It has to be Chaenomeles Speciosa and not Chaenomeles Lagenaria or Chaenomeles Sinensis. Which source you bought it from? Is it pure? If not, then maybe the 3 grams you took may be far less than that.

[The Brain]

Good thing you mentioned the speices as I look like I've been screwed. This is where I purchased http://www.maxnature...guexpolafr.htmland they only list the speciosa variant which is what I was looking for and they don't even list the other variants yet what they have indeed sent me is Lagenaria.

[eon]

I've seen the speciosia sold as herbs, sometimes labeled not for human consumption (could be because it's legitimate!). The product you linked is labeled speciosa, but I don't see what it really is on the back of the bottle. Seems misleading. Does it say its ingredient is speciosa or lagenaria? The dopamine reuptake inhibitor (DRI) listed was clearly speciosa.

[The Brain]

On the bottle shown the label is devoid of a variant yet on the bottle I received there is a clear printed variant of Lagenaria. The two labels are otherwise identical.

[eon]

Definitely misleading. I contacted the seller you linked. I have to wait for a response. But from the OP, seems as if he is saying Lagenaria and Speciosa are the same or perhaps he was also misled or misleading. I contacted an herbalist at Dragon Herbs and they stated both breeds are identical but like I said different breeds yield different effects. Dragon Herbs only has Lagenaria and Sinensis but not Speciosa.

Edited by eon, 05 January 2015 - 05:29 AM.

[normalizing]

so much pain in the ass to find some shitty herbal that is dopamine booster.....

[eon]

I contacted the company they said the product is Speciosa and they got it from Mayway, whatever that is (a supplier?). But you say the bottle is labeled Lagenaria?

 

On the bottle shown the label is devoid of a variant yet on the bottle I received there is a clear printed variant of Lagenaria. The two labels are otherwise identical.

 

[The Brain]

Certainly is,

[Area-1255]

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to bump it up anyway. I'm considering ordering some of this on Monday for a self guinea pig experiment. Since a year or so had passed since this thread was created, wondering if anyone has tried it out?

I have, it's like wellbutrin sort of, but much less stimulating, a little mild euphoria, sense of focus without mind racing - and some wild bursts of motivation and energy at 4 scoops at once from the mu gua sold on amazon; meaning, higher dose = better, of course.

[eon]

The amazon link isn't going through straight to the product you're talking about.

 

 

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to bump it up anyway. I'm considering ordering some of this on Monday for a self guinea pig experiment. Since a year or so had passed since this thread was created, wondering if anyone has tried it out?

I have, it's like wellbutrin sort of, but much less stimulating, a little mild euphoria, sense of focus without mind racing - and some wild bursts of motivation and energy at 4 scoops at once from the mu gua sold on amazon; meaning, higher dose = better, of course.