60 replies to this topic

[alpha_omega]

you should also imagine the effects of sacraficing yourself, would your mother want her final moments to be her getting shot or seeing her son/daughter killed?

Edited by alpha_omega, 27 August 2005 - 03:57 AM.

[eternaltraveler]

I find it quite remarkable how so many of you are able to rationalize how your own lives have so much more value than absolutely anything else. How sad.

[Infernity]

Justin,
Your words are harsh. That's what making the poll harder to answer. Morality.

alpha_omega,
First, please do not evolve the WWII here.

Ok now, the thing is, some people are not strong enough to live with the fact their beloved died; and that's why they would sacrifice.
I personally think everything is better than non-existence.
Sad but True.

-Infernity

[eternaltraveler]

Strong enough? From my point of view it is instead that some people are not strong enough to truly stand up for something greater than themselves, and then use these silly rationalizations to make it seem like it's a good thing.

[Infernity]

Well Justin, after you die, you can't even compare greater or smaller, just a total nonexistence, unborn, nothing...

Anything is better than that. The thing is you can know of anything only while being alive. And after you die, it doesn't matter if the whole universe is sucked up to a giant black whole from another universe in the omniverse... You simply are nothing. A lost ingathered energy, that nothing is mattered for "you" as a past mechanism of composition of energy pieces.

-Infernity

Edited by infernity, 27 August 2005 - 06:36 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

Well Justin, aster you die, you can't even compare greater or smaller, just a total nonexistence, unborn, nothing...

That's not relevant, you make the choice before then.

[Infernity]

You are not aware to the such great loss that death brings are you. It's not even being the martyr, oh well in you assuming, it is, since you are still alive. But this whole thing, I mean, while you're alive you CAN consider the afterwards, after you die, it mattered nothing.

-Infernity

[Cyto]

Depends if I respect them.

[hughbristic]

It is a tricky question, in that almost never is one asked to sacrifice oneself in the sense that you are sure you will die. Much more often it is a question of taking a great risk to protect something or someone you love. I might take a great risk to protect someone I love who was in a very clear and present danger, if I thought that by not acting I could not find a way to live with the person I had become by not doing all I could to prevent that death. When you enter into a truly loving relationship with another (one's wife, child, etc.) your identity becomes defined in terms of that relationship. If you are unwilling to take a risk for that person, to some degree it puts the lie to that love and to the person you've been telling yourself you are. If you find that what you are is a lie, it may well make life unbearabble.

Lets all hope we may never be forced into such a situation.

Warm regards,
Hugh

[Infernity]

Hmm, well I agree with you, it is a difficult question, otherwise I wouldn't ask it...

However, I disagree on that, that not sacrificing is disproving the love, it's matter of morality.

Both- dying for them or not, whatever you choose, you choose for yourself. Are you aware of the egoism theory of mine? Check this http://www.imminst.o...T&f=3&t=5760

It is the matter of what the individual's brain finds as more helpful for the sake of your very own life and survival.

After you are familiar with that fact, it will be a bit easier to NOT sacrifice yourself, since you know you do both for self survival, and the dying thing is a failure, the worst mistake you can actually do. How come? you can't learn from it..

"It's better kept inside than left for good"

I think of it as, when you've got nothing to lose, there's only one way- UP. After you die, it doesn't matter AT ALL for anyone, anything... there is absolutely nothing left, nothing was or will be. It's 99.999999999999999999999999999999999.... (etc) percent possible for the energy built you gather again, so you won't ever be again, as you never was.

After you die, even if the whole universe explodes- it doesn't matter. So why saving lives for the price of yours? For NOT LIVING with the idea they COLD be alive. I think it is more reasonable to just realize we are egoists, and than it will....... make you strong.

We are all being under so called "morality", the thing stops us from many many things- bad and good as one.

-Infernity

[tous]

My 3 brothers and 1 friend of mine from highschool. Simply why? They've all saved my life atleast ounce.

[tomjones]

hmm, I would Sacrifice my life for a number of people...
(In order of importance)

My daughter (If I ever have one)
My Girlfriend/Wife (If I ever have one)
Just about any female If im in an extreamly good mood
A clone of myself aslong as he would carry on all my work and plans

Edited by tomjones, 21 September 2005 - 10:09 AM.

[Infernity]

tous, I conclude that the brain process of yours works like this: you alive with the fact these fellas are dead and they could be alive would be much more hard to handle (will kill you) than the fact you are a dead thing, so you currently think of it better you dead than all of you guys dead. Mmm?


Good to see you here again Carl, what about a son? would you sacrifice for him?

-Infernity

[tomjones]

I don't plan on ever having a son...
But if I did... Well I would have to say No, No I would not.

[Infernity]

What if you did have a wife and a child which wouldn't come out a female... I mean you yet don't plan it.

However, that's being a bad father dying for your daughter and not for your son...
Think how would you feel to know you father would die to save your sister and would let you die..............

I think it pretty much shows you'd have feelings you shouldn't have to your daughter or a lack of feelings you should have to your son.

Or that your love to your daughter would be love of mates (?!), or that you simply won't appreciate your son properly.

-Infernity

Edited by infernity, 22 September 2005 - 12:43 PM.

[tomjones]

Um... [wis]

[tomjones]

Think how would you feel to know you father would die to save your sister and would let you die..............

I would not blame my father if he let me die, The world would be better off without me anyway.

I think it pretty much shows you'd have feeling you shouldn't have to your daughter are a lack of feelings to your son.

Or that your love to your daughter would be love of mates (?!), or that you simply won't appreciate your son properly.

My feelings for or type of love I may have for my future daughter (If I have one)
is none of ya busniss

If I was to have a daughter and a son... I am afraid to say I would definitly love my daughter more...

How ever... As I said, I don't plan on having a son so i cant say forsure that I wouldnt sacrifice myself for him... Perhaps if I had one I might feel difrintly... But I doubt it.

Edited by tomjones, 22 September 2005 - 01:05 PM.

[Infernity]

I would not blame my father if he let me die, The world would be better off without me anyway.

I'm sorry you feel like this. But do not think of this question as to others' feelings and what the world 'needs' or not, but to YOURS.

My feelings for or type of love I may have for my future daughter (If I have one)
is none of ya busniss

...You are not going to um............. love her physically are you?!

If I was to have a daughter and a son... I am afraid to say I would definitly love my daughter more...

Sad.

-Infernity

[tomjones]

...You are not going to um............. love her physically are you?!

How the heck should I know... She aint born yet is she...

[Infernity]

[:o] You mean........... you *might* have intensions to???

-Infernity

[tomjones]

Anythings possible Adi, I would like to think I wouldnt...

[justinb]

I voted for immortalists only. (Any lover of mine would be an immortalist.)

[kylyssa]

You may not think you'd die for someone else but once in a situation requiring you to risk your life for someone else you'd be surprised how natural it feels. There is no thinking or careful consideration. It's just you afterwards saying, "I'm so fortunate to have survived."

I probably wouldn't intentionally sacrifice my life for someone but if I died by risking my life for theirs I suppose it comes out the same.

[JohnDoe1234]

I think the question can be answered 2 ways:

(1) If there is a 100% chance of me dying
Only for family and very good friends

(2) If there is a chance I could live
Pretty much anyone except Leon Kass because he wants to die anyway...

[Infernity]

except Leon Kass because he wants to die anyway...

LOL [lol] I laughed my @ss off


-Infernity

[Athanasios]

You may not think you'd die for someone else but once in a situation requiring you to risk your life for someone else you'd be surprised how natural it feels.  There is no thinking or careful consideration.  It's just you afterwards saying, "I'm so fortunate to have survived." 

I probably wouldn't intentionally sacrifice my life for someone but if I died by risking my life for theirs I suppose it comes out the same.

I voted any human for exactly that reason. If it is substituting myself for someone getting the death sentence for a crime committed, no, but as in pushing someone out of the way of a bus causing myself to get hit instead, yes, any human.

[kylyssa]

I would knowingly die for my child (don't have one yet) or my husband, possibly for other children. I don't exactly know where my lines are until I'm crossing right over them.

I very nearly died for two women I didn't even know on two separate occasions. I had no intention of trading my life for theirs and acted in one case on pure defensive instinct and on the other case in blind heated rage. Both outcomes were good but they easily could not have been. I threw up and fainted when I realized how close things had been (the guy had a gun that I didn't even see, holy shit!) afterwards.

[chris w]

Interesting poll, with interesting results. I voted "no" suspecting I would be either in minority or the votes would be at least much more evenly distributed.

I cannot know for sure if I wouldn't die for my children, as I don't have them, and most probably not going to, so this kind of bond is too abstract for me to imagine, but I remember even when being in love, I never really had this "I would give my life for her" feeling, so I wouldn't expect it to happen if I had a child either. Kind of sad, I guess.

[The Immortalist]

I hope to all that chose "no" aren't so disconnected from life that they have no close, meaningful interpersonal relationships. It just seems to me any person that would choose "no" in any circumstance no matter what it is are the epitome of narcissism and arrogance.

[chris w]

I hope to all that chose "no" aren't so disconnected from life that they have no close, meaningful interpersonal relationships. It just seems to me any person that would choose "no" in any circumstance no matter what it is are the epitome of narcissism and arrogance.

I hear you, but sacrificing life for somebody else under any circumstance makes one a moral hero, and that is something that cannot be demanded of any human being. Altough I may feel somewhat guilty that for me the probable answer could be "no", I also realise that I'm not necessarily here in this world to strive for ethical perfection.

In answering a question like this, some may also choose according to not what they actually feel, but what they think they are supposed to feel, which stems from our culture rooted in Christianity that promotes selflesness so much (altough kind of balanced by hedonism and self - interest for some time now).

Ultimately, the one and only medium through which I can experience reality is myself, that's why I hold my own life so dear and wouldn't let it go lightly, because there simply isn't an alternative, not because I think I'm objectively worth that much, in the grand scheme of things I know I'm just a germ floating in the cosmic wind.