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Is Noopept water or fat soluble?

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#1 Dirk_Diggler

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:56 AM


I hope maybe manic_racetam could help me out on this one:

Is Noopept water or fat soluble?

#2 JChief

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:35 PM

Vodka soluble! :~
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#3 Boolean

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:25 PM

Honestly this is a good question... I'd like to know.

#4 matter_of_time

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:00 AM

I tried a little bit today (20 mg) and it is water soluble for sofar I could see.

#5 Boolean

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:04 PM

Hey Dirk, you want to email the company that sells it and ask? They may actually respond... you never know.

#6 Dirk_Diggler

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:09 PM

I didn't think of that...yeah I can do that. Will update with their response.

#7 evodude

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:26 PM

I tried a little bit today (20 mg) and it is water soluble for sofar I could see.



I dont know where buy you stuff but i buy it from cerebral health and its definitately floats....

#8 Dirk_Diggler

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 04:24 PM

Still haven't heard back from them.

#9 MrSpud

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:43 PM

http://resources.met...22&size=largest implies that it has at least some solubility in water and that mannitol makes it more water soluble.

#10 AbolishtheState

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 09:02 AM

I tried a little bit today (20 mg) and it is water soluble for sofar I could see.



I dont know where buy you stuff but i buy it from cerebral health and its definitately floats....


I also procure my noopept from CH, and while it does not seem to fully dissolve in water, it sinks rather than floating. Interesting...

#11 manic_racetam

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 03:43 PM

I was going off the same study that Mr. spud referenced. I emptied one of my 100mg caps into a cup of water and half of it stayed floating at the top and the other half sunk to the bottom. I've been stirring it for about five minutes and it doesn't seem to be dissolving. Mine is from CH as well, I wonder if the clumpy nature of the powder has something to do with it.

I gathered from the study that the manitol was added as a stabilizer rather than a solvent but need to reread it I guess.

#12 alexburke

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 07:26 PM

I just received my Noopept today (took 2 weeks and 1 day)
Wondering if I should take it with fish oil to increase the effects.
Just a note: My friend offered to snort some and I let him.. The conclusion is that its stronger NOT snorted
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#13 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:52 PM

Looking at it's chemical structure, I'd say alcohol and fat soluable. It doesn't have any major unbalanced hydrogen bonds, nor does it carry an ion. Being a peptide in structure, it will "wiggle" and "wave" a lot, so a small percentage may mix with water.

#14 Boolean

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 05:41 PM

Finally a chemist joins the conversation. Thanks Dev!

What would be the preferred and/or easiest method in which to get the best efficacy from it? Dissolve first in olive oil and vodka? lol

#15 thedevinroy

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 05:52 PM

Finally a chemist joins the conversation. Thanks Dev!

What would be the preferred and/or easiest method in which to get the best efficacy from it? Dissolve first in olive oil and vodka? lol


:blink:

#16 Boolean

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:12 PM

Don't you look at me in that tone of voice. You'll have to understand most of us don't have your particular skill set.

No seriously... If I wanted the greatest possible absorption along with the greatest possible convenience, what would your recommendation be?

#17 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 02:40 AM

Don't you look at me in that tone of voice. You'll have to understand most of us don't have your particular skill set.

No seriously... If I wanted the greatest possible absorption along with the greatest possible convenience, what would your recommendation be?


Honestly the way you take it won't make a huge difference in effect. If it made a significant difference then the doctor would have you crushing your fat soluble medicines and mixing them with olive oil. Some medicines are to be taken with food, which may have something to do with being fat soluble but could also have to do with preventing an upset stomach.

Once the capsule is broken down in the stomach, fat soluble or not, your GI tract will absorb it.

As far as absorption there seem to be conflicting studies, this one says that Noopept is absorbed into the blood stream and crosses the blood brain barrier unchanged. Whereas this one says it's quickly processed through the liver into its metabolized state. So it's kind of unclear as to how it's metabolized or if it's metabolized at all.

Personally though I've found swallowing it to be the most pleasant and effective route. It has a really strong taste so sublingually it would likely be quite unpleasant. Please don't inject it, and sounds like snorting it doesn't help either (see alexburke's post above).

If you ask me, I say just swallow it in a capsule. If you don't have capsules then wash the powder down with milk or juice.

#18 thedevinroy

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:16 PM

Don't you look at me in that tone of voice. You'll have to understand most of us don't have your particular skill set.

No seriously... If I wanted the greatest possible absorption along with the greatest possible convenience, what would your recommendation be?

I thought you were kidding. Actually it doesn't matter either way. Noopept is better taken under the tongue, so whatever you'd rather use to mask the taste.

#19 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:02 PM

Honestly Noopept builds in intensity everyday for a little over a week. That's why I prefer the oral administration rather than under the tongue, it's easier to gauge how it's affecting you.

I wonder if the effects are markedly different with sublingual administration. Maybe I'll try it next time around.

#20 alexburke

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:19 PM

I am on day 4 of using Noopept, the first day I was expecting some amazing results and ended up taking like 300mg of it. Nothing bad happened to me. The effects ARE building up slowly but surely every day. I'm curious if it has a reverse tolerance (the more you do the more effective it is).
My dreams are becoming way more vivid and my meditations are feeling more real especially when visualizing :)
I don't mind the taste at all.. I could take it under my tongue to test it. How long do I hold it there?until it dissolves or what?

#21 thedevinroy

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:32 PM

I am on day 4 of using Noopept, the first day I was expecting some amazing results and ended up taking like 300mg of it. Nothing bad happened to me. The effects ARE building up slowly but surely every day. I'm curious if it has a reverse tolerance (the more you do the more effective it is).
My dreams are becoming way more vivid and my meditations are feeling more real especially when visualizing :)
I don't mind the taste at all.. I could take it under my tongue to test it. How long do I hold it there?until it dissolves or what?

I'm honestly surprised that any of you have had results just swallowing it. That drug has so many handles for enzymes to rip it apart. I'm glad no one has tried it up the nose yet.

Sublingual administration usually takes a minute or two after it dissolved (or is chewed up) completely before swallowing the remainder.

#22 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:38 PM

I am on day 4 of using Noopept, the first day I was expecting some amazing results and ended up taking like 300mg of it. Nothing bad happened to me. The effects ARE building up slowly but surely every day. I'm curious if it has a reverse tolerance (the more you do the more effective it is).
My dreams are becoming way more vivid and my meditations are feeling more real especially when visualizing :)
I don't mind the taste at all.. I could take it under my tongue to test it. How long do I hold it there?until it dissolves or what?

I'm honestly surprised that any of you have had results just swallowing it. That drug has so many handles for enzymes to rip it apart. I'm glad no one has tried it up the nose yet.

Sublingual administration usually takes a minute or two after it dissolved (or is chewed up) completely before swallowing the remainder.


Hey Devin, if you don't mind helping me out here. Which part of the molecule is actively giving the effect? The two studies I mentioned above seem to have conflicting results. One says noopept is metabolized hepataically and has the first pass effect (meaning for sure that it is metabolized, at least a little). The other one states that it crosses the BBB unchanged. In that study specifically it states the bio-availability through the GI tract. How is it possible that this stuff isn't torn apart by enzymes?

The russian website says that it's a peptide of glycine that is able to cross the BBB. In the frequently asked questions it even says "Why can't I just take glycine?".

Obviously I'm confused on how this stuff works. I see a glycine section in the molecule and can almost see the proline part (a bit lost on that one) but does it have to be metabolized to become active?

[attachment=9531:Noopept_structure.png]

#23 thedevinroy

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:18 PM

Hey Devin, if you don't mind helping me out here. Which part of the molecule is actively giving the effect? The two studies I mentioned above seem to have conflicting results. One says noopept is metabolized hepataically and has the first pass effect (meaning for sure that it is metabolized, at least a little). The other one states that it crosses the BBB unchanged. In that study specifically it states the bio-availability through the GI tract. How is it possible that this stuff isn't torn apart by enzymes?

The russian website says that it's a peptide of glycine that is able to cross the BBB. In the frequently asked questions it even says "Why can't I just take glycine?".

Obviously I'm confused on how this stuff works. I see a glycine section in the molecule and can almost see the proline part (a bit lost on that one) but does it have to be metabolized to become active?

A percentage of peptides usually make it through the digestive system. However, since everyone's systems are different and there are many enzymes that break apart peptides into amino acids, this becomes increasingly complicated to find an effective solution for an oral dose. Therefore, other methods of internalizing the medicine are usually thought. For the more complicated peptides, there is nasal spray. For smaller molecules, there is the transdermal patch. For either, you can use sublingual (under the tongue) administration.

Just because the percentage that is absorbed by the GI tract crosses the BBB unchanged does not mean that it had 100% absorption. It does not need 100% absorption to "work" because it is such a strong medicine, and a very unique one at that. Also, it may be broken down in the liver into metabolites, this would not affect the "unchanged" adverb because the noopept that did cross the BBB was unchanged. However, this may be of interest to you... noopept is a pro-drug, so it's metabolites are the active drug.

The part that is actively giving the effect is most likely the "racetam" part, but it may work on glycine receptors using the tail end as well. It works as an anti-oxidant, a blood thinner, a complicated calcium and potassium channel modulator, and a cholinergic uptake enhancer like Piracetam.
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#24 thedevinroy

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:19 PM

For more information, check out this link: http://lib.bioinfo.p...s&query=GVS 111
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#25 manic_racetam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:22 PM

Hey Devin, if you don't mind helping me out here. Which part of the molecule is actively giving the effect? The two studies I mentioned above seem to have conflicting results. One says noopept is metabolized hepataically and has the first pass effect (meaning for sure that it is metabolized, at least a little). The other one states that it crosses the BBB unchanged. In that study specifically it states the bio-availability through the GI tract. How is it possible that this stuff isn't torn apart by enzymes?

The russian website says that it's a peptide of glycine that is able to cross the BBB. In the frequently asked questions it even says "Why can't I just take glycine?".

Obviously I'm confused on how this stuff works. I see a glycine section in the molecule and can almost see the proline part (a bit lost on that one) but does it have to be metabolized to become active?

A percentage of peptides usually make it through the digestive system. However, since everyone's systems are different and there are many enzymes that break apart peptides into amino acids, this becomes increasingly complicated to find an effective solution for an oral dose. Therefore, other methods of internalizing the medicine are usually thought. For the more complicated peptides, there is nasal spray. For smaller molecules, there is the transdermal patch. For either, you can use sublingual (under the tongue) administration.

Just because the percentage that is absorbed by the GI tract crosses the BBB unchanged does not mean that it had 100% absorption. It does not need 100% absorption to "work" because it is such a strong medicine, and a very unique one at that. Also, it may be broken down in the liver into metabolites, this would not affect the "unchanged" adverb because the noopept that did cross the BBB was unchanged. However, this may be of interest to you... noopept is a pro-drug, so it's metabolites are the active drug.

The part that is actively giving the effect is most likely the "racetam" part, but it may work on glycine receptors using the tail end as well. It works as an anti-oxidant, a blood thinner, a complicated calcium and potassium channel modulator, and a cholinergic uptake enhancer like Piracetam.



You're the best Devin! Thanks a bunch man. Great website, appreciate that as well.

So I guess long term use of Noopept would advise choline supplementation, which may be why I experienced side effects after a week of mega-dosing (I had stopped my choline intake). Also, sublingual looks to be the way to go but with a possibly reduced dosage.

No wonder you can take 300mg at a time with few side effects, it's mostly destroyed in the GI by enzymes. It's looking more and more like a miracle drug. Any prevalent dangers that you can see based on these studies?
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#26 manic_racetam

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:32 PM

Ok, this study looks promising as well. Noopept increases NGF and BDNF in the hippocampus?! I think we're getting closer to a more thorough understanding of this substance and how best to take it. Now just lacking more human trials.
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#27 Boolean

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:50 PM

Great. Sublingual it is.
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#28 bobman

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:49 PM

Looking at it's chemical structure, I'd say alcohol and fat soluable. It doesn't have any major unbalanced hydrogen bonds, nor does it carry an ion. Being a peptide in structure, it will "wiggle" and "wave" a lot, so a small percentage may mix with water.


Actually it looks to be plenty soluble in water. The double bonded O in the amides should participate in resonance which would give the O's a delta negative charge and the nitrogen a delta positive charge, but the benzene, as well as the CH's in the pentose, and the methyl group, should make it fat soluble. I don't know much about solubility in fat, but Van Der Waal and Electrostatic attractions are marginally weaker than hydrogen bonds (~3 vs ~1), which this will definitely form due to its polarity, so taking it with fat and water is a good idea to cover all bases (especially since electrostatic attraction is present in all chemical interactions, so is present in the formation of hydrogen bonds as well, fat isn't unique).

And practically everything is soluble in alcohol, although there are more potent organic solvents, especially those that are more polar, like acetone and methanol. Noopept looks like it is quite polar due to resonance, so the more polar the substance the better. It would dissolve very well in alcohol.
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#29 thedevinroy

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 06:59 PM

Looking at it's chemical structure, I'd say alcohol and fat soluable. It doesn't have any major unbalanced hydrogen bonds, nor does it carry an ion. Being a peptide in structure, it will "wiggle" and "wave" a lot, so a small percentage may mix with water.


Actually it looks to be plenty soluble in water. The double bonded O in the amides should participate in resonance which would give the O's a delta negative charge and the nitrogen a delta positive charge, but the benzene, as well as the CH's in the pentose, and the methyl group, should make it fat soluble. I don't know much about solubility in fat, but Van Der Waal and Electrostatic attractions are marginally weaker than hydrogen bonds (~3 vs ~1), which this will definitely form due to its polarity, so taking it with fat and water is a good idea to cover all bases (especially since electrostatic attraction is present in all chemical interactions, so is present in the formation of hydrogen bonds as well, fat isn't unique).

And practically everything is soluble in alcohol, although there are more potent organic solvents, especially those that are more polar, like acetone and methanol. Noopept looks like it is quite polar due to resonance, so the more polar the substance the better. It would dissolve very well in alcohol.

Your knowledge exceeds mine. Hats off to your chemistry skills.

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#30 Baten

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 07:05 PM

The noopept I received from intellimeds UK wasn't water soluble. Maybe some Mg stearate was added ... the noopept worked, though.
Had a foul smell, like noopept is supposed to have.





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