72 replies to this topic

[nowayout]

Replacing fat with carbs also tends to increase testosterone:

Int J Sports Med. 1992 Jul;13(5):424-30.
Effects of a diet regimen on pituitary and steroid hormones in male ice hockey players.

Tegelman R, Aberg T, Pousette A, Carlström K.

Source

Department of Clinical Chemistry I, Karolinska Institute, Huddinge University Hospital, Sweden.

Abstract

Serum concentrations of androgens, cortisol, androgen binding proteins, pituitary hormones, together with anthropometric variables and sports performance were studied in two different elite male ice hockey teams. One of the teams (DIF, n = 22) participated in a special dietary program including reduction in fat from approximately 40 per cent of total energy intake (E%) to less than 30 E% and an increase in carbohydrate intake from 45 E% to about 55 E%, while the other (SSK, n = 21) served as a control group and had no special dietary program. The study covered a 7-month period. Basal values of serum testosterone, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), non-SHBG-bound testosterone (NST), cortisol, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHAS) and LH did not differ between the two teams. Serum concentrations of testosterone, SHBG, NST and cortisol increased significantly during the study period in the DIF group and were, with the exception of SHBG, significantly higher than in the SSK group at the end of the study (33.0 vs 26.8 nmol/l, p less than 0.05; 22.5 vs 18.3 nmol/l, p less than 0.05; and 548 vs 464 nmol/l, p less than 0.01). The ratio between NST and cortisol which was used as an index of anabolic/catabolic steroid balance did not change in either group during the study. A significant decrease in the serum concentrations of LH during the observation period was found in the SSK group. The endocrine differences between the teams may be explained by a relative negative energy balance in DIF, together with a reduced fat and increased carbohydrate intake.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

[hippocampus]

http://paleodietlife...utrient-ratios/

it seems that cycling may be the best option for the majority.

[The Immortalist]

Replacing fat with carbs also tends to increase testosterone:

Probably because test is a steroid and steroids are a type of fat.

[Brainbox]

I did split the voting system discussion to the other conversations sub forum.

Please be tolerant and ontopic people.

[TheFountain]

I did split the voting system discussion to the other conversations sub forum.

Please be tolerant and ontopic people.

Shouldn't it be in the 'forum issues' forum?

[nowayout]

Replacing fat with carbs also tends to increase testosterone:

Probably because test is a steroid and steroids are a type of fat.

I think you misread that line - read it again: What they found was that decreasing fat and increasing carbs increased testosterone.

[The Immortalist]

Replacing fat with carbs also tends to increase testosterone:

Probably because test is a steroid and steroids are a type of fat.

I think you misread that line - read it again: What they found was that decreasing fat and increasing carbs increased testosterone.

lol I'm so dumb

[TheFountain]

Anyway, back on topic.

I think the best place to get dietary fat is from whole foods like eggs, yogurt (if you eat it), nuts and other healthy foods with varying fat content, as opposed to extraneous sources like oils, coconut milk, etc. It becomes too much energy in, especially when you have receptor abnormalities to consider (I.E difficulty metabolizing more than a certain amount of fat).

[JChief]

Yup, I said it.

If your metabolism is such that eating excess dietary fat slows it down, doing paleo could be detrimental to your goals.

Let's keep it on the real here. Most personal trainers do NOT do a paleo diet, and in fact prefer either a cyclical diet or one in which fat intake is kept at a minimum and they instruct their customers to do the same!

My own personal experience is that a higher carb, lower fat diet worked to shed the stubborn body fat. And it is my explicit belief that the only way to shed serious pounds (that is, six pack pounds) on a paleo diet is to do EXTREMELY HEAVY weight training!

But by the above logic, you can gain results on ANY DIET! That's right. ANY diet! And I have seen countless examples of guys on extremely high carb diets losing pound after pound of body fat, and gaining pound after pound in muscle.

What is spoken of on this website mostly is scientific speculation, not macroscopic results. yes, there are those who see results on paleo diets but these are DEFINITELY in the minority.

Most people who try, or who WOULD try a high fat and extremely low carb diet would fail due to energy in being greater than energy out. Why? Because most people who dispense with carbs entirely HAVE NO ENERGY OUTPUT!

Adaptation nothing! Tried it, never adapted. Carbs are needed for energy, period unless you are a genetic exception to the general rule.

Bottom line is this, moderate fat is fine, HIGH FAT isn't, at least for the majority of the population.

Go ahead, negative vote me, I don't care.

This is a great debate. I am personally a fan of whole foods diet eliminating sugar and processed foods and eating lots of fruits, vegetables, and greens. I like the paleo diet too. I have to admit that it is tough for me to finish workouts because I am not eating enough carbs. I would like to see others input. I feel good and look good but I sure don't have the energy to power through workouts like I used to.... I don't think you deserved a thumbs down at all but rather people should get on here and DEBATE!

[JChief]

In my own personal experience I have found that I am able to prevent gaining fat and therefore bad weight by simply limiting my caloric intake to about 1800 calories or less. I starting eating a more plant based diet, some lean meat, and practically eliminated breads and grains. I looked great and worked out a few times per week doing pull ups, push ups, free weights etc and some cardio twice per week. I have gained some muscle and have lost fat around my waist. I am 27 years old and went from 34 waist to 31 inch waist. Lots of people have commented on my leaner and "more-fit" appearance. But what is still troublesome for me is that I just don't have the energy to finish workouts (I do P90X at home which lasts about an hour each session) .. literally I have to quit after about ~ 30 minutes into the workout. I still get benefits and continue to build muscle and I feel that carbs are what my body needs to get through the workouts. I ate 2 cups of steel cut oats about an hour before my workout and I had a ton more energy than if I had eaten a salad or some fruit. Maybe I could eat a bunch of bananas? But either way I think adding more carbs prior to my workout are what I should do. I am going to eat the carbs prior to workouts only and see if that helps. For the carbs I am talking bananas, sweet potatoes, quinoa, steel cut oats, and brown rice. I wish others would chime in on this that workout and try to eat well too. Even though I look good and feel good my body is missing that energy source that I had prior to my diet change. Perhaps I just need to eat more in general? Who knows..

[JChief]

An interesting part of that blog post with regard to carbohydrate consumption in relation to fat:

"To address this hypothesis, first let's find some cultures that have a very high carbohydrate intake and see how fat they are. Let's start with a culture that eats more carbohydrate than any other I know: the New Guinea highland tribe at Tukisenta that was studied extensively in the 1960s and 70s. They ate 94.6% of their energy intake as carbohydrate, mostly from sweet potatoes, for a total calorie intake of 2,300 kcal/day in men and 1,770 kcal/day in women. Investigators found them to be fit, lean and muscular, with no sign of protein deficiency (Trowell and Burkitt. Western Diseases. 1981).

West Nile district, Uganda, 1940s. The diet consisted of millet, cassava, corn, lentils, peanuts, bananas and vegetables (Trowell and Burkitt. Western Diseases. 1981). Despite food abundance, "in the 1940s it was quite unusual to see a stout man or woman." "In recent years, however, a fair number of upper-class middle-aged West Nile women have begun to look rather stout, and some men have become very obese, especially those who hold lucrative posts and can purchase whatever food they like." This corresponded with an increase in "sugar, cooking oils, milk, fish and meat" and a corresponding decrease in "home-grown starchy staple foods." This same scenario has happened to hundreds, if not thousands of African communities whose traditional diets are very high in carbohydrate."

Maybe even more agreeable: "Many Asian countries, including China, Japan, Taiwan and India, have a traditional diet that is very high in carbohydrate. In many cases, the dominant carbohydrate was white rice, a refined carbohydrate. Yet traditional Japanese, Chinese and Southern Indians eating mostly white rice were renowned for their leanness. Any plausible hypothesis of obesity needs to account for these observations."

Edited by JChief, 06 October 2011 - 08:56 AM.

[TheFountain]

In my own personal experience I have found that I am able to prevent gaining fat and therefore bad weight by simply limiting my caloric intake to about 1800 calories or less. I starting eating a more plant based diet, some lean meat, and practically eliminated breads and grains. I looked great and worked out a few times per week doing pull ups, push ups, free weights etc and some cardio twice per week. I have gained some muscle and have lost fat around my waist. I am 27 years old and went from 34 waist to 31 inch waist. Lots of people have commented on my leaner and "more-fit" appearance. But what is still troublesome for me is that I just don't have the energy to finish workouts (I do P90X at home which lasts about an hour each session) .. literally I have to quit after about ~ 30 minutes into the workout. I still get benefits and continue to build muscle and I feel that carbs are what my body needs to get through the workouts. I ate 2 cups of steel cut oats about an hour before my workout and I had a ton more energy than if I had eaten a salad or some fruit. Maybe I could eat a bunch of bananas? But either way I think adding more carbs prior to my workout are what I should do. I am going to eat the carbs prior to workouts only and see if that helps. For the carbs I am talking bananas, sweet potatoes, quinoa, steel cut oats, and brown rice. I wish others would chime in on this that workout and try to eat well too. Even though I look good and feel good my body is missing that energy source that I had prior to my diet change. Perhaps I just need to eat more in general? Who knows..

I suggest separating the intake of fat and carbs. Meals that are highest in fat and lowest in carbs should be eaten away from work outs and meals higher in carbs and lower in fat right before or after them. My reasoning? The metabolic signaling process that work outs initiate. I also experiment with high carb days vs high fat days. Lately i've been eating a few blue corn tortilla chips and pasta through out the days I am very active. I always make green vegetables a decent portion of at least two meals a day.

[TheFountain]

I've been eating about 15-20 blue corn chips a day and I am surprised how much energy they give me before and after work outs. It seems the incorporation of carbs is fairly important for energy, at least for those of us with that specific phenotype.