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Atypical premature aging syndrome

premature aging syndrome

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#1 xEva

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:11 AM


On Russian TV recently there was a talk show on premature aging syndrome. Two participants invited from England had the typical progeria (top two on the image below) , while the 16-year old girl from Russia and 20-year old guy from Central Asia (bottom two) got me thinking that there may be indeed some program responsible for aging.

. Posted Image


There was also a 29-yo with atypical premature aging syndrome. She was perfectly normal (and even exceptionally beautiful) till about 18-19, after which she began to age rapidly. Despite many cosmetic surgeries she looks in her 60s now. This is the first time I saw people with premature aging syndrome which was not progeria (show link: http://www.1tv.ru/sp...13/pid38876/pr1)


The other thing that bugs me now is the fact that we live old longer than young. How strange that is. Most start aging in mid 40s. Actually most start aging earlier than that but by mid 40s - early 50s it sets in for everyone and then we can live another 50 or even70 years. We live longer as old people than as young. I don't know why I have not noticed such an obvious fact until recently. but how strange that is... Somehow it seems odd, somehow I'd "expect" people to grow old right before their death, not in the middle of their life.


Edited by xEva, 31 October 2011 - 12:14 AM.

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#2 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:23 PM

How do you define 'old'? Or 'young'? Many 50 or 60 year olds don't consider themselves old.

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#3 xEva

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:35 AM

How do you define 'old'? Or 'young'? Many 50 or 60 year olds don't consider themselves old.



old as in having dull complexion, wrinkles, grey hair, being a bit bulky with diminished flexibility and grace, and otherwise not pretty.



RE my post above, they are all progeria, of course, meaning accelerated aging. The two kids from England have the better known Hutchinson-Gilford syndrome. The two older kids have some other form of progeria.

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#4 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 06:14 AM

Actually, there still do not exists an accepted from all definition for old person, since there is not a wildely accepted definition for aging and for the aging process.

I think, that xEva accepts definition for old person simmilar to this: "person who has developed the signs of aging"
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#5 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 06:22 AM

I actually don not agree with xEva, that we live longer as old people than as young. The average life length of the people in the developed countries is about 80 years. If it is true, that we start to age at 40, then we averagely live as young the same time as we live old. If it is true, that the aging starts in the 50s or 60s then we live longer as young, rather as old.

#6 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:41 PM

old as in having dull complexion, wrinkles, grey hair, being a bit bulky with diminished flexibility and grace, and otherwise not pretty.



I don't think that a definition of 'old' based on how you look is relevant. Old is a person who has age related diiseases (osteoathritis, chronic degenerative conditions) plus age-related mental outlook (has given up, not excited, not exciting, mentally boring). and many other similar characteristics.

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#7 Mind

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 07:20 PM

Don't kid yourself. By the damage theory of aging, we begin aging when we split from one cell into two (if not at two, then when cells differentiate). Every cell division shortens telomeres. Also, cells that respirate accumulate damage no matter if you are 1, 10, or 40.

Hormonally (growth) speaking, women start "aging" around 15 or 16, men 17 to 21. It is all downhill from there. You might not think you are "old" until you are 40, but the changes are there - for everyone. The changes occur so slowly that you don't notice until you are 40 or 50. Every objective physical measure of youth and vitality goes down through your 20s and 30s, you just don't notice until your 40s and 50s. Staying "mentally" young (ignoring the physical pain and disability of aging) seems to be a good way to manage the reality of aging for most people. I do it. I encourage everyone else to stay positive as well, while we work on a cure.
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#8 1kgcoffee

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:27 AM

Absolutely horrifying. Looks like the bottom two have werner syndrome:
http://en.wikipedia....Werner_syndrome

They could really benefit from ta65 and high dose vitamin C
http://www.scienceda...00104101210.htm

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 02 November 2011 - 04:01 AM.


#9 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:43 PM

Hormonally (growth) speaking, women start "aging" around 15 or 16, men 17 to 21. It is all downhill from there.

very objective physical measure of youth and vitality goes down through your 20s and 30s,


Downhill? Goes down? I see things positively. As long as one is healthy the changes that come with age are just that, changes. Many things improve, some worsen, but on the whole it is much better to be 'old' than 'young'. I would like to prolong lifespan but not to achieve youth (as defined by many people).

#10 VidX

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:40 PM

Hormonally (growth) speaking, women start "aging" around 15 or 16, men 17 to 21. It is all downhill from there.

very objective physical measure of youth and vitality goes down through your 20s and 30s,


Downhill? Goes down? I see things positively. As long as one is healthy the changes that come with age are just that, changes. Many things improve, some worsen, but on the whole it is much better to be 'old' than 'young'. I would like to prolong lifespan but not to achieve youth (as defined by many people).



Come on... I know one needs to "calm oneself down" somehow to stay positive, but if you could have a 25yo organism with your current knowledge/wisdom (+a young braing would enable you to be more effective in acquiring new knowledge/being progressive) you'd chose that in a blink of an eye.

#11 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:06 PM

No I wouldn't. My knowledge and experience now is much more valuable compared to when I was 25. Being 50 or 60 has its own specific advantages that a 25 year old has not even thought of.

#12 niner

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:31 PM

... if you could have a 25yo organism with your current knowledge/wisdom (+a young braing would enable you to be more effective in acquiring new knowledge/being progressive) you'd chose that in a blink of an eye.

No I wouldn't. My knowledge and experience now is much more valuable compared to when I was 25. Being 50 or 60 has its own specific advantages that a 25 year old has not even thought of.

mrszeta, are you replying to the statement from VidX that I quoted here? He's talking about you keeping the things that are good about being old, unless you consider the usual infirmities of old age to be good things. I suppose you might like some of them. I have grey hair, and I think it looks pretty cool. It might also be the case that a young brain, even if loaded with the knowledge and wisdom of an older person, still might be more skittish and annoying. Perhaps that comes with the young brain territory, at least for some people. Personally, I'd accept his offer of a younger brain and body, providing I could keep what I consider to be the good stuff.

#13 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 07:56 PM

Since you ask, yes, I like SOME of the infirmities that come with old age. For example, with age my hearing is becoming less perfect. I see this as a benefit, because (and I am not joking) I don't hear the rubbish people are talking around me, or the insults, impolite comments etc. Obviously, I am not talking about serious conditions, but one can be contented and productive at any age, within their own particular niche.

#14 xEva

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:47 AM

I think, that xEva accepts definition for old person simmilar to this: "person who has developed the signs of aging"


That's right, that's exactly how I meant it. That's why I do not agree with Mind:

...we begin aging when we split from one cell into two (if not at two, then when cells differentiate). Every cell division shortens telomeres....

...Hormonally (growth) speaking, women start "aging" around 15 or 16, men 17 to 21. It is all downhill from there....


Based on my informal studies of life, cells do have ability to restore their youthful look and function. I know people (well... actually a person) who looked exceptionally young all the way through her 40s. Actually she started to show signs of aging only after she got a nasty chronic viral infection, which exploits autophagy, which the body learns to suppress in order to survive. Until then she looked as if she was in her early 20s (no wrinkles, no nothing, and just perfect, flexible, sporty body). So, in my definition, she was young till 40+ and then she got "old".

And I don't agree with Mrszeta either:

I don't think that a definition of 'old' based on how you look is relevant. Old is a person who has age related diiseases (osteoathritis, chronic degenerative conditions) plus age-related mental outlook (has given up, not excited, not exciting, mentally boring). and many other similar characteristics.


What you describe as old in my book is old and sick.


I guess this thread revealed that we have rather different ideas of what being old means. Funny, no?
and we probably thought that we thought pretty much alike on this topic :-D I know I did

#15 clairvoyant

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

Is this kind of aging dew to bad mitochondria or telomere shortening ?

#16 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:35 PM

Does anyone knows how these people are being treated (I mean the people with the premature aging syndrome), and what are the effects of the treatment?

#17 clairvoyant

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:46 PM

Does anyone knows how these people are being treated (I mean the people with the premature aging syndrome), and what are the effects of the treatment?


No treatment is available, compatriot. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust!
By the way, no pharmaceutical company will make the effort to find the drug for so small number of patients.

#18 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:53 AM

Yes, but still there is what to be tried (experimented with their agreement), and I think, that these people will want to experiment with treatments, that will tend to make their lifes longer and better. I also think, that the whole humanity will benefit from those experiments, since cureing their condition may actually mean stopping the aging. And I don't think, that people with progeroid syndromes will mind receiving antioxidants, calories restriction, training and exercising, supplements like resveratrol, or other eventual treatments.

#19 steampoweredgod

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:43 AM

I actually don not agree with xEva, that we live longer as old people than as young. The average life length of the people in the developed countries is about 80 years. If it is true, that we start to age at 40, then we averagely live as young the same time as we live old. If it is true, that the aging starts in the 50s or 60s then we live longer as young, rather as old.

I've heard some aspects of cardiovascular aging can be seen even in children. Noticeable external skin changes related to aging can start to be seen even in teens, though they tend to become more noticeable in mid-to-late 20s. Functional changes in certain organs related to aging can be slowed, halted and even reversed, though not all changes obviously.

Is this kind of aging dew to bad mitochondria or telomere shortening ?

Some types of progeria appear to be due to a defective nuclear lamin protein, called lamin A that has been affected by a mutation and the mutated form is called progerin, it appears it accumulates and it can affect nuclear structure and function.

No treatment is available, compatriot. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust!
By the way, no pharmaceutical company will make the effort to find the drug for so small number of patients.


One of the papers I linked elsewhere seemed to suggest that rapamycin was being considered or had shown some promise.

Here's a quick news article regarding it

n this latest study, Rapamycin was used on children with HGPS (Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome), a devastating genetic condition in which the child ages quickly and reaches old-age by the time they are 12 years old. The accelerated aging is caused by an accumulation in every cell in the body of a protein called Progerin.

The scientists explained that Rapamycin got rid of the progerin in the cells, leaving them healthy.-link



The question is how strong does Rapamycin interact with mtor? Would prolonged protein restriction with intervals of adequate protein intake, be less strong, as strong, or stronger?

Mtor inhibition appears to be an extremely potent intervention. Some inactivation can reduce protein synthesis by more than 20%. It boosts autophagocytosis(recycling), reduces protein synthesis and appears to engage other mechanisms that increase resistance to stress. It appears to interact with mitochondrial function. Mtor inhibition has also been suggested to inhibit cells from becoming senescent and keeping those that already are senescent cells from expressing the senescent phenotype(if this is so, in my opinion it would be as if the cells were no longer there.). The recent scientific american magazine(I think it was january 2012 issue) has an overview article on mtor.

One of the nice things is that what is said to appear to kill many supercentenarians in most cases is some form of abnormal protein accumulation disease

"The superseniors deviate from the norm not just in how long they live but in how they die," says Coles, who arranges autopsies of the oldest old as part of his work with the recently established Supercentenarian Research Foundation. Only nine Supercentenarians have undergone postmortems -- Calment, for example, never agreed to one -- and Coles and colleagues have performed six of these procedures, including one earlier this year in Cali, Colombia, on a man who died at age 111.

Coles argues, based on these autopsies, that supers aren't perishing from the typical scourges of old age, such as cancer, heart disease, stroke, and Alzheimer's Disease. What kills most of them, he says, is a condition, extremely rare among younger people, called senile cardiac TTR Amyloidosis. TTR is a protein that cradles the thyroid hormone thyroxine and whisks it around the body. In TTR Amyloidosis, the protein amasses in and clogs blood vessels, forcing the heart to work harder and eventually fail. "The same thing that happens in the pipes of an old house happens in your blood vessels," says Coles.-link


If you drastically slow protein synthesis, increase the rate of recycling via autophagocytosis, and modify cellular function to resist damage. It seems like with such intervention the wall limiting the supercentenarian lifespan barrier could hypothetically be broken.

Edited by steampoweredgod, 19 February 2012 - 02:03 AM.


#20 niner

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:38 AM

Seems like we're having a semantic discussion regarding the meanings of "old" and "aging". "Old" is a value judgement. "Aging" is the damage that accrues to our bodies that eventually makes us old. It is simply a fact that aging occurs from conception onward. The outward signs of aging damage are not visible for a number of years, and may be masked by the process of development.

I recall a paper suggesting that resveratrol had some effect against transthyretin (TTR) amyloidosis formation. Maybe there's something to resveratrol after all. No telling if it would work with an achievable blood level.

#21 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:27 AM

steampoweredgod, I think, that the existence of children with cardio - vascular diseases do not proves, that the aging starts at child's age. The children with developed cardio - vascular aging are too few and they other etiological factors for this disease, such as a genetic predisposition. They sould not be considered as a normal aging. The same is valid for the teens with wrinkles.

#22 steampoweredgod

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

steampoweredgod, I think, that the existence of children with cardio - vascular diseases do not proves, that the aging starts at child's age. The children with developed cardio - vascular aging are too few and they other etiological factors for this disease, such as a genetic predisposition. They sould not be considered as a normal aging. The same is valid for the teens with wrinkles.


Not necessarily overt disease but the starting signs of it, I've heard are somewhat common, this does not result in overt disease until many decades of further progress later, though this probably depends to an extent on diet the child has been exposed to... an ideal diet may preclude even the earliest signs of such, though we'd need data to back it up. Wrinkles depends on ethnicity, sun exposure, etc*(it is said by some that the damage from sun exposure may take decades to fully emerge.... even very old individuals may have many aspects of skin aging absent in skin areas that have almost never been exposed to the sun.).

Regardless of that, as Mind has said some forms of damage occur even at the first division. Dna replication is not perfect and mutations can occur every step of the way. Further unless there is some mechanism to maintain an efficient population of mitochondria, these too will be subject to accruing damage.

Other forms of aging could also be present, for example the neural population is fixed in most of the brain. These cells may very well be accumulating some forms of damage. Another sign is teeth, once the final set of teeth emerges the human teeth become vulnerable to wear and tear from diet or environment*(falls, fights, etc), which could be considered aging. SInce unlike other animals we can't continue generating new sets, this poses a problem if care is not taken with regards to diet. Also falls, fights, etc. can cause damage to the brain that may result in loss of cells, and since the number of neurons is fixed in most of the brain this could be considered some form of aging, though the greater plasticity in youth can compensate to a great extent for this.

Of course in general, provided a good diet, environment and provided no horrible mutation or accident occurs, aging considered in terms of increasing mortality per year is probably absent until the mid-to-late 20s(the spike before that may be merely behavioral result of teen greater freedom from parental protection and risky undertakings, though I've not looked into it.).
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#23 xEva

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:06 AM

Rapamycin worked for progeria by inducing autophagy. Resveratrol was supposed to be CR in a pill. Both attempt to mimic the real thing. Which is fasting a.k.a. therapeutic starvation. Cheap and universally available :)

Edited by xEva, 20 February 2012 - 04:09 AM.





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