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East Asians work like dogs

asians iq work

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#1 khemix

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:13 AM


I hope I'm not stereotyping, but at university I've noticed Asians (particularily Koreans and Chinese) have an unrivalled work ethic when it comes to school. Even the ones on the lower end of the bell curve still appear to possess some of this ability relative to other groups. So what gives? Is it the higher IQ? What biochemistry is responsible for this? It is said that they posses less sex hormones (as you can tell by their physical appearance) and this makes them less err... distracted. Do neurotransmitters play a role? I'd think they have loads of dopamine given their mad focus... but then they don't posses any of the dopamine qualities like arrogance and sociability. They definately have a lot of acetylcholine, as they tend to posses the qualities that come along with it (ie. depressed mood, higher learning capabilites, toned appearance). I dont know much beyond that, but can say they are emotionally flat and less out going but have this intense ability to focus and just sit hours on end doing something.

Any time I raised the question I was told its not genetic but cultural. I don't find this explanation satisfactory for several reasons. The main one is I know of a white family who adopted a Korean and he came out over-achieving and dominating school, where as the white kids didn't do as well.

So what is it that makes them so damn successful and driven?

#2 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:46 AM

I'd think they have loads of dopamine given their mad focus... but then they don't posses any of the dopamine qualities like arrogance and sociability.

I'm not sure about that.
http://www.psycholog...n-women-and-men

Dopamine seems to be associated with antisocial trait, like autism. I can't comment the rest of your post by lack of knowledge about that. I think it's an important subject but maybe very polemical, so without a lot of studies. Have you tried Pubmed?

Edited by Pour_la_Science, 02 December 2011 - 07:52 AM.


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#3 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:04 AM

You may have something here, related to the 'dopamine hypthesis':
http://www.ncbi.nlm....?tool=pmcentrez
"The 2R and 7R alleles are genetically and functionally related, each exhibiting suboptimal dopamine-signaling, in comparison with that of 4R alleles". and guess what, the 4R variant of the dopamine receptor is abnormally more frequent in Asia.

But the conclusion of the article is that Europeans and Americans (who have more of the 7R variant) are more 'novelty seeking' : because they need more dopamine to have the same function of their receptor.
I may be wrong and It's pure hypothesis but maybe I could say that too much dopamine to make the receptor functions at a 'normal' level could be bad too and you've got the 'bad' aspect of dopamine (mad novelty seeking) but without the 'good' effect (as deemed in our actual society) as concentration/attention/hard working.

#4 corb

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:23 PM

Has nothing to do with genetics, it's communist "brainwashing" (they had it quite a bit before communism but it became more evident with the rise of the PRC) - personally I'd call it social realism - the fact you amount to nothing if you aren't a good worker - something their parents make sure they are very aware of. Pretty much the only good thing to come out of the block as far as I'm concerned.

You can see the same tenacity and work ethic in most slavs. Only difference is they're from the same race as you, so you don't notice it and you think he's the odd hard working american. And that's the reason it dies out by the third generation, eastern europeans integrate into the american way of life easily, they are white so they have white friends - so they start acting like their friends, pretty normal response.
Asians on the other hand still somewhat keep to themselves, so they are somewhat able to preserve their own values.


Yeah, I know blaming your low productivity on things you can't control like genetics makes you feel better, but it's a lie.

#5 Link

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:01 AM

Any time I raised the question I was told its not genetic but cultural. I don't find this explanation satisfactory for several reasons. The main one is I know of a white family who adopted a Korean and he came out over-achieving and dominating school, where as the white kids didn't do as well.


Sorry but your theory based on a sample size of one seems a little weak.

I beleive it has a lot to do with family pressure. I know where i went to school alot of the Asian kids were sent there by their parents from China. They had to pay alot more than Australian kids anyway, plus obviously the cost of flights back to China every term break, probably would have cost shit loads. I imagine these kids parents would have been all over them to get good grades spending that amount of money.

As far as Asian families living in western countries go, i'd say it just carries over from the fact that the parents no doubt had to work exceedingly hard to establish what they see as a new and better life in a western country and no doubt expect their children to work just as hard.

#6 vladkara

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:02 AM

Sorry, but it is quite evident that Asian's focus on learning is very much based on their culture. Just like American conservatism and militarism is based on culture here.

#7 Sillewater

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:10 AM

Sorry, but it is quite evident that Asian's focus on learning is very much based on their culture. Just like American conservatism and militarism is based on culture here.


Yup probably culture. An interesting read: http://www.economist.com/node/21538104

#8 Pour_la_Science

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:51 AM

You all are speculating a lot. I see no science in your arguments, only "it's quite evident', ''probably', and personal experience. We need science !
If your dopamine pathway is massively different from another, it's not random and has some meaning (you've read the article, right?). But I don't want to speculate too:

Let's have two groups: asian/non-asian, with asian/non asian upbringing. And Make them take personality test, novelty seeking test etc... Then we'll know. If someone finds that on Pubmed...

Edited by Pour_la_Science, 03 December 2011 - 08:53 AM.

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#9 khemix

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:08 PM

Has nothing to do with genetics, it's communist "brainwashing" (they had it quite a bit before communism but it became more evident with the rise of the PRC) - personally I'd call it social realism - the fact you amount to nothing if you aren't a good worker - something their parents make sure they are very aware of. Pretty much the only good thing to come out of the block as far as I'm concerned.

You can see the same tenacity and work ethic in most slavs. Only difference is they're from the same race as you, so you don't notice it and you think he's the odd hard working american. And that's the reason it dies out by the third generation, eastern europeans integrate into the american way of life easily, they are white so they have white friends - so they start acting like their friends, pretty normal response.
Asians on the other hand still somewhat keep to themselves, so they are somewhat able to preserve their own values.


Yeah, I know blaming your low productivity on things you can't control like genetics makes you feel better, but it's a lie.

And thats why Japan and South Korea generally perform at the same level as the communist Chinese?

If by Slavs you mean Eastern Europeans, I wouldn't say they are on the same level as the Asians. I have seen some really smart Russians and the like but the frequency is similar to what you'd see in Western Europeans... ie. most of them are pretty lazy.

And what about south Asians like the Vietnamese? Same enviornment and same communist brainwashing. Yet nothing like the Chinease/Koreans. Low and behold they have different genetics!

Any time I raised the question I was told its not genetic but cultural. I don't find this explanation satisfactory for several reasons. The main one is I know of a white family who adopted a Korean and he came out over-achieving and dominating school, where as the white kids didn't do as well.


Sorry but your theory based on a sample size of one seems a little weak.

I beleive it has a lot to do with family pressure. I know where i went to school alot of the Asian kids were sent there by their parents from China. They had to pay alot more than Australian kids anyway, plus obviously the cost of flights back to China every term break, probably would have cost shit loads. I imagine these kids parents would have been all over them to get good grades spending that amount of money.

As far as Asian families living in western countries go, i'd say it just carries over from the fact that the parents no doubt had to work exceedingly hard to establish what they see as a new and better life in a western country and no doubt expect their children to work just as hard.

I agree that family pressure and involvement go a long way. A lot of the people I gave tutoring lessons to were in fact Korean with very pushy parents. Still, I don't buy into your cost theory. There were several Indians with similar circumstances, usually rich parents sending them here to Canada for education... higher costs etc, yet they did not perform as well. In fact, I would say any immigrant group from outside of Europe has to work exceedingly hard to avoid the piss poor circumstances they left and yet it is consistanly only a select few groups who have the ability to get far.

You all are speculating a lot. I see no science in your arguments, only "it's quite evident', ''probably', and personal experience. We need science !
If your dopamine pathway is massively different from another, it's not random and has some meaning (you've read the article, right?). But I don't want to speculate too:

Let's have two groups: asian/non-asian, with asian/non asian upbringing. And Make them take personality test, novelty seeking test etc... Then we'll know. If someone finds that on Pubmed...

I'm not saying we'll develop a strong scientific theory that explains this. Neruo-psychology is still in its infancy and I doubt we could raise money to run a proper study. Still, given that a lot of readers here know about genes it may be possible to deduce a somewhat tentative relationship between the hard work ethic some groups posses and the chemical factors involved. Frankly, its an amazing ability they posses and it would be great if it could be replicated for less endowned groups like us lazy whites.

#10 corb

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:28 PM

And thats why Japan and South Korea generally perform at the same level as the communist Chinese?

If by Slavs you mean Eastern Europeans, I wouldn't say they are on the same level as the Asians. I have seen some really smart Russians and the like but the frequency is similar to what you'd see in Western Europeans... ie. most of them are pretty lazy.

And what about south Asians like the Vietnamese? Same enviornment and same communist brainwashing. Yet nothing like the Chinease/Koreans. Low and behold they have different genetics!








First off, we're generalizing - not all chinese are exemplary intellectuals. I know loads of lazy dull chinese and at the same time I know some very diligent, intelligent malaysians. The difference between the two is - if you don't work like a dog in China you get killed - not directly, not nowadays anyway - but you'll starve, so they generally have good work ethic and most of them bring that work ethic with them when they emigrate - but not all of them.

Secondly I like how you pointed out that the japanese and koreans are not chinese. Do you know why ? They have the same diligence and work ethic, but their genetics are different from han chinese - same way han are different form viatnamese and filipinos - different ancestry.

We could really go on with this stupidity but the reason for the academic brilliance of asians is quite evidently a cultural thing - white parents buy their kids nintendo wii's - asian parents make their kids go to piano and math lessons and tennis practice if they want to play on their dad ps3's - hell it's even obvious in the choice of games, jrpgs are pretty much a lesson in economics and diligence. It's simple as that. :-D

#11 YOLF

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

I've dated some Asians. Culture definitely plays a role. Many of them are only children and they watched their parents devote all of their time to just one thing (them). Their parents are also never punish them in a way that would interfere with their intellectual capacities.

Now it is notable that Asia has traditionally been the manufacturing center of the world and has always performed exceptionally well in this regard with only the exception of the opium hiccup. I suspect genetics plays a lesser role if any. For Asia, it has always been the culture that has put them ahead the most and the performance elements of their culture and their upbringings that do the most.

#12 shadowrun

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:33 PM

I've taught English in Korea and Japan. I can't stress enough the impact of culture in these societies. Everyone expects you to bust your butt, your family, your friends and everyone around you. These are collectivist, shame-based societies and by exhibiting certain undesirable traits openly you shame those close to you.

Obviously outliers exist and like any society you'll have an array of non-conformists. The people that make it to America to study have mastered their own studies and English enough to likely indicate that they will likely not be those observable outliers. Travel to those countries and immerse yourself for a bit and you'll see that not everyone is a workaholic. I've found that due to the structure of that society and what is and is not tolerated requires a great deal of time and observation. Essentially, the lazy or dumb people aren't so obvious about it as we are here. Motivation and support can take someone a long way.

I'm not saying that there isn't a genetic component only that there is an observable cultural imprint being made on these people that is not so relevant in our western societies. After pure individual intelligence and motivation is accounted for...it's simply up to the impact of the family or that individual on their performance. They tend to have that additional social layer that everyone strive or conform for the better.

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#13 maxwatt

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:45 PM

Certain groups of "Native Americans" are genetically near-identical to East Asians, but perform poorly by academic measures.
You do see more lazy, poorly performing Asians in Asia. The sharper ones end up in American schools.





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