1755 replies to this topic

[pure]

Bacterial Endotoxins are ubiquitous/in everything. To my knowledge you can't completely eliminate them.

Therefore they are a definite consideration for anything injectable. And even more so if something is for IV administration.

And if the dose is high (in mg not mcg) then you really need to be careful as Endotoxins are usually equated/denominated to mcg, and obviously if you're injecting 25 mg, it's 25000 mcg, and if something is even 0.5 EU/mcg, then.. 25000 x 0.5 = 12500 Endotoxin units.

It easily adds up.

Endotoxins cause 'endotoxemia' and septic shock and maybe death if you're unlucky.

If I recall correctly, safe human exposure via injection (non IV) should be below 200 or 300 EU (endotoxin units) per day or dose (not sure).

The FDA has set an endotoxin limit for all injectable drugs, including Water/Saline for Injections. There is some discussion about limits/calculations on the following page:

http://www.fda.gov/I...s/ucm072918.htm

 

You're right to get TFA removed. TFA is toxic to cells, but it is not known how toxic to cells in the context of long-term human administration/exposure, because obviously it's not used for pharma drugs.

Usually drug API's are as Acetate, Chloride, or Sodium salts because they are physiologically compatible.

I'm enthralled by the "Research Peptide" experiment going on, cause 99% of them will be as TFA salt (not to mention the Endotoxins).

I eager to see if after a few more years of use (on top of the time elapsed thus far) whether people start reporting ill heath effects which trace back to cell toxicity/death via TFA in the 'Research Peptides' they've been using.

If they don't then I know I can stop spending extra to get GMP like peptides. As you would know, to remove TFA and switch to Acetate costs about 40% extra because peptide is lost in the process, as well as the extra labour time involved.

Is bacterial endotoxin a worry in synthetic peptides built on resin? I thought its just an issue when a protein was made via genetic modification of eg. E.coli. b-NGF comes to mind in this case.

 

I'll definitely look at Pivotal Bioscience next time. 

 

Edited by pure, 20 March 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[pure]

addendum to last post.. just found the following about safe endotoxin levels:

"Because endotoxin molecular weight may vary a great deal (10,000 to 1,000,000 Da), endotoxin levels are measured in "endotoxin units" (EU). One EU is approximately equivalent to 100 pg of E. coli lipopolysaccharide—the amount present in around 10⁵ bacteria.

 Humans can develop symptoms when exposed to as little as 5 EU/kg body weight.

 These symptoms include, but are not limited to, fever, low blood pressure, increased heart rate, and low urine output; and even small doses of endotoxin in the blood stream are often fatal.

 The FDA has set the following maximum permissible endotoxin levels for drugs distributed in the United States:

• Drug (injectable, intrathecal) - 0.2 EU/kg body weight
• Drug (injectable, non-intrathecal) - 5 EU/kg body weight
• Sterile water - 0.25-0.5 EU/ml (depends on intended use)"

on https://en.wikipedia.../Depyrogenation

[mikey]

here its strange (slide 34) : http://www.khavinson...s-genome-ageing

 

epitalon increase melatonin production ONLY in old monkey. The melatonin production is even higher in the old group than the young one. Very strange

 

also check slide 79, epithalamin is MUCH better to increase telomere lenght than epitalon. So now we have our answer, epitalon is just the more easy produced version of epithalamin but much less potent

 

Has anyone found a reliable source of epithalamin?

 

I ordered natural Thymalin from Russia, but have doubts about it's authenticity, so it's in my refrigerator until I have it tested.

 

Searching for epithalamin in Russian found nothing, with one site saying " Currently, the drug is not registered in Russia."

[pure]

I understood that Epithalamin was discontinued due to raw material shortage, however it is still available in capsule form as Endoluten, whose price (high) is probably a reflection of there being limited raw material available.

[Mad Hacker]

Hey guys, 

 

Assuming that Acetyl Epitalon Amidate actually does cross the blood brain barrier, do you believe Epitalon would increase sensitivity of the hypothalamus to it's natural hormonal influences therefore increasing hormones and correcting HPA dysfunction? 

[Nuke]

Hi Biohacker

 

I have no idea about Acetyl Epitalon Amidate, and personally I would stay away from it. The blocking of enzymatic degradation sounds good on paper, but keeping a body process activated longer than normal usually leads to problem is the long run. Normal Epitalon is experimental enough for me, and it works fine.

 

It has been shown that Epitalon lowers cortisol on monkeys, and increase melatonin production on old monkeys. I'm pretty sure is does cross the BBB. The cortisol lowering effects I have felt myself. I can't say about other hormones though.

[YOLF]

I've removed some posts. Please refrain from using nationalist or racial slurs on our forum, but please also refrain from insulting those doing it. Just report it to moderation using the links at the bottom of the post and let us know what's going on. 

[mikey]

 

..I especially like how P/S have invented (in their bungling amateur incompetence) an entirely new name for a type of peptide.. ie. Thymalin "Bi" Peptide.

WTF is a "Bi Peptide"? Google doesn't even now. Obviously we think we know they mean "Dipeptide", BUT, do they?

After all, you would have to be pretty fricken stupid to say something you were selling was a Dipeptide, when you know very well it contains 9 amino acids, AND you print its 9 amino acid sequence on your website product page.

Thus, to this day I still think the "Bi" is an unsolved mystery which only P/S can explain.

On their website it states "Thymalin Bi Peptide (Synthetic Thymalin)" with a whole blurb about Thymalin. But there is no mention of how what they are selling is actually related to or an analogue of Thymalin. There is nothing on their page which confirms that what they are selling really is "Synthetic Thymalin".

Effectively, it's akin to selling a 6 horsepower outboard motor on that page with an accompanying blurb about Thymalin. it's nonsensical rubbish.

It is correct that P/S are selling Thymulin, IF what is actually in the vial has the 9 amino acid sequence stated on the product page.

But does it? I'm sure they wouldn't have a clue.

ThymUlin was developed in the 70's before Khavinson's time (ie. it has no relation or connection to him and ThymAlin) and used to be named "Facteur Thymique Serique".

From all the reading I've done about Khavinson's Peptide Bioregulators and Thymalin, it is clear he has identified and isolated multiple short peptides (di and tri) within the 38 amino acid sequence of natural Thymalin which have, in their own right, biological activity insofar as regulating the immune system. They are:

Thymogen (Dipeptide); Vilon (Dipeptide); Crystagen (Tripeptide); "AB-9" (Dipeptide); "T-32" (Tripeptide); and, "R-1" (Dipeptide)

BTW, Khavinson's natural ThymAlin (which has a sequence 38 amino acids in length) does not contain anywhere in its sequence, a sequence of 9 amino acids matching ThymUlin's.

On the subject of reliable labs, all the above is precisely the reason why I only deal with Pivotal Bioscience nowadays. If you care about dealing with someone with breadth and depth of knowledge 2nd to no one, integrity, principles, the best value for money pricing, GMP spec production and, most importantly, testing, then there is no one else you would deal with in my opinion, apart from perhaps 'tier 1' vendors such as Bachem, Polypeptide, etc., if they'll deal with you and you can afford them.

And I don't say this lightly. I've been a big-time slutty whore when it comes to buying research peptides. I've tried em all, and pivotal is hands-down the best.

And I'm not aggressive.

I just don't want to see the availability of Research Peptides be killed-off by regulatory authorities overnight because someone gets killed thanks to jackass amateur stupid inept incompetence of some online vendor who hasn't got a clue what they're peddling or of its quality. And this scenario happening is very much on the cards at this rate with all the cowboy operators and the punters who seem to trust without question and buy their unknown/unverified products.

I am just 'protective' of a good thing (availability of research peptides) and accordingly have no tolerance for amateur inept incompetent fools who make exorbitant profit margins, yet won't spend a few hundred dollars getting proper testing to ensure their products are safe and are what they claim they are, and instead trade on the excuse/fob off this ethical and moral obligation by saying they are selling 'research peptides' not for human use, when they know full well people are using them.

Chris

While pure may come over as aggressive, I have to fully agree with him.

People are selling things they have no idea of. If you search for Thymalin one of the first hits is peptidesciences. On their page the heading is "Thymalin Bi Peptide (Synthetic Thymalin) Thymalin Peptide Sequence: Pyr-L-Ala-L-Lys-L-Ser-L-Gln-Gly-Gly-L-Ser-L-Asn-OH" Just this heading is utter bullshit. 

So first, what is Thymalin? You will find its a polypeptide complex. It is not a single peptide. You can find it described here. https://encrypted.go...76?hl=en&lr=all

Second, what is "Synthetic Thymalin". The closest you will find is something called Thymogen, sequence Glu-Trp. It is not really synthetic Thymalin, it is just an active fragment of one of its peptides. For immune modulating effects, it is what most people want I guess. Here is its patent https://encrypted.go...51?hl=en&lr=all

Third, that is a bi peptide? Something with 2 amino acids. Not 9.

Lastly we get Pyr-L-Ala-L-Lys-L-Ser-L-Gln-Gly-Gly-L-Ser-L-Asn-OH. It is something called Thymulin. There is not much info on it, but here is the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymulin . Does it do anything positive? Possibly. Does it do anything negative? Maybe. Does Khavinson's Thymalin extract contain Thymulin? Possibly. The fact is we just don't know. We don't even know if the stuff random peptide shops sell is Glu-Trp or Pyr-L-Ala-L-Lys-L-Ser-L-Gln-Gly-Gly-L-Ser-L-Asn-OH or even something else.Btw a bi peptide had 2 amino acids, not 9.

To make it more confusing, then we have Crystagen (Glu-Asp-Pro). It also boosts the immune system https://encrypted.go...tents/US8057810

As I said before, we should stop using names and start using amino acid sequences. This is one reason I prefer to deal directly with reliable labs, who build the peptide to my specification. 

 

 

Khavinson synthesized thymalin as H-L-Glu-L-Trip-OH.

Please see the attachment of his patent that said that it worked better than natural thymalin and please comment.

 

Thank you!

Attached Files

•  Thymalin patent Khavinson.pdf   563.9KB   275 downloads

[mikey]

I understood that Epithalamin was discontinued due to raw material shortage, however it is still available in capsule form as Endoluten, whose price (high) is probably a reflection of there being limited raw material available.

 

I retained a table (attached) from a Khavinson document that showed that Endoluten produced slightly more telemore length increase than Epitalon for those under age 75.

 

I calculated the percentage increase in telomere length and inserted it below the table

 

I am having trouble locating the full text of the study or I would post it.

 

However, the table indicates that Endoluten is slightly superior for those of us that are under 75, aside from its cost.

 

Comments please and thank you.

Attached Files

•  Ephithamin vs Epitalon vs Endoluten.pdf   340.86KB   352 downloads

[Logic]

...I am having trouble locating the full text of the study or I would post it...

The first website in the world to provide mass & public access to research papers:

http://sci-hub.io/

[Why not!]

GREAT FIND!

The first website in the world to provide mass & public access to research papers:

http://sci-hub.io/

 

Edited by Why not!, 16 April 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[4ever_young]

FYI

 

Here is the least expensive EPITALON I know of..

 

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649

[Nuke]

Hi 4ever_young

 

Interesting find. I have 2 problems with it though. 

 

1. 500mg per vial is just to much. It will be totally degraded by the time you have used it up. One a vial is opened you have to use it up, you cant' really reseal it.

 

2. Its a TFA salt, it means no TFA removal. Its cheaper, but I would not use it. In 50 years time we may find out that small amounts of TFA does nothing, but from what I know of TFA it can't believe its good. We are trying to live long after all. 

 

https://en.wikipedia...uoroacetic_acid

[4ever_young]

Hi Nuke;

 

I actually did my due diligence before embarking on this journey last year.

 

It took me a while to locate the information a second time for the benefit of this forum, but here it is:

 

 

http://www.tandfonli...807039991289644

"Trifluoroacetic acid is a strong organic acid with a pKa of 0.23. It is miscible with water and its low octanol/water
partition coefficient (log Pow=−2.1) indicates no potential to bio-accumulate."

"Overall the toxicity of TFA has been evaluated in stream mesocosms, algae, higher plants, fish, animals and humans. It
has been found to be of very low toxicity in all of these systems. The lowest threshold for any effects was the
reversible effect on growth of one strain of algae, Selenastrum capricornutum, which was seen at 0.12 mg·l−1."

 

As the potential to bio-accumulate is virtually zero, the only impact we could see from TFA exposure would be acute rather than long term.

 

I would also like to note that the half-life of TFA is 16 hours.

 

Given the anti-cancer properties associated with Epitalon and C60 in Olive Oil (anyone using Epitalon should probably consider C60 EVOO use) I am very satisfied that I face no long term threat from Epitalon formulated as a TFA salt.

 

The benefits I have gained from the use of Epitalon as a TFA salt at a dose of 10mg / day trans-dermal using %50 DMSO along with C60 EVOO 5ml / day over the past 6 months:

 

*Better sleep.. like a well fed, dry baby.

 

*Dramatically reduced joint pain, shoulders, elbows, knees ..Especially during heavy work-outs, the pain is gone and I suffered from these pains for years.

 

*Greatly improved energy levels and sense of over-all well being... At 64 I feel better than I did in my twenties, but I must add that I smoked 3 packs of Camel non-filters / day then and I was a complete workaholic.

 

*Tighter skin, especially in the area to which the trans-dermal application is made.
 

As for the handling of the bulk peptide, the GenScript web site offers this:

 

"When preparing your peptides for use in an experiment or assay, follow the guidelines below:

    Warm the peptide vial to room temperature before opening.(Read "Allow the vial to reach room temp")
    Weigh out the desired quantity of peptide quickly.
    Reseal the vial tightly.
    Store the remaining peptide in a freezer, preferably below -20℃, under dry conditions."

 

Needless to say this makes a few basic assumptions:

 

A controlled environment that is dry and free of biological hazards, and the use of sterile measuring utensils.

 

I hope this clears things up.

 

 

 

[yeims]

Hi,

 

I have seen on this website These prices and I wonder if anyone knows this site:

 

http://www.thelongev...&product_id=223

 

2 Vials of 50 mg epithalon is 114.24 €,,,,, I am about to buy, since I have the option to pay with paypal.

They say send without shipping and from different parts of Europe, I am in Spain, so this interests me.

¿Someone knows about this site?

I find a great and very reliable prices, but With all due respect to people I must ask These, thanks and sorry for my english.

[mikey]

 

Hi,

 

I have seen on this website These prices and I wonder if anyone knows this site:

 

http://www.thelongev...&product_id=223

 

2 Vials of 50 mg epithalon is 114.24 €,,,,, I am about to buy, since I have the option to pay with paypal.

They say send without shipping and from different parts of Europe, I am in Spain, so this interests me.

¿Someone knows about this site?

I find a great and very reliable prices, but With all due respect to people I must ask These, thanks and sorry for my english.

 

 

http://www.ceretropic.com/epitalon/ 100 mg for $119.99. They have several iterations of epitalon.

[yeims]

Thanks Mikey,

 

 

    I was studying the proposal cereptropic, is unrivaled in the price. But I must rely more on sending from within the European Union, ceretropic send from EEUU. This danger of customs, but anyway, it's still very good deal.

[Yeshe Rabsal]

I purchased Epitalon from Peptide Sciences I'm unsure about the quality. Has anyone purchased from them or investigated the purity and authenticity of the product?

[Yeshe Rabsal]

Well I've looked through this thread now and I am more confused than I was. I want to find a good source for Epitalon/thalamine? that actually sells what it's advertising.

[Yeshe Rabsal]

Does anyone have any experiences ordering form Neo Scientific?

[Why not!]

Yeshe Rabsal, in response to your last 3 posts:

- almost no one here is likely to have paid to have the quality verified of the peptides they purchase from online sellers (ie. they purchase in "hope" and faith)

- all peptides you as an individual can buy from online sellers are almost certainly made in China, whether they're from Peptide Sciences or Neo Scientific or Blue Sky or Ceretropic, etc.

- China isn't a problem so long at the quality is verified

- I suggest you ask the online seller for test reports they should have to confirm the quality of the peptides they sell (ie. it is what it is claimed to be)

- keep in mind:

   - some online sellers won't have any reports (ie. they just trust what they're given by their supplier is what it is claimed to be) STUPID

   - some online sellers will have reports provided by their supplier (ie. they still just trust what they're given by their supplier is what it is claimed to be) STUPID

   "STUPID" really means they don't give a fluck about quality or integrity, and just want your money

 

- you should try to find an online seller who can provide test reports that they themselves initiated at a third party lab to independently verify the quality irrespective of what their supplier claims

- IF you find such an online seller, then make sure the test reports are for the current batch of stock they're selling, not dated 2 years ago for a previous batch

- AND, make sure they are the test reports printed by the testing equipment

- You don't just want a COA cause anyone can type one in MS Word

- Rather, you want them to send you the COA first so you've got 'em by the balls

- Then you ask them for the supporting test reports printed by the test equipment which show the same results as those they typed in their COA

- GOOD LUCK finding the six immediately above!!   (in 5+ years I've only found two online sellers who meet this quality assurance criteria)

 

 

Edited by Why not!, 05 June 2016 - 05:54 AM.

[4ever_young]

FYI for Epitalon USA made from GenScript.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272255767510

[Why not!]

That product on ebay is as TFA Salt.

Probably would have cost too much to get the job done properly and switch it to Acetate - the salt used in most pharmaceuticals.

Yes, I've read the previous post about TFA toxicity, but the fact remains that all pharmaceuticals, including pharmaceutical peptides, are as Acetate, HCl, Cl, etc., salt, and NEVER TFA.

FYI for Epitalon USA made from GenScript.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272255767510

 

[Nuke]

Does anyone have any experiences ordering form Neo Scientific?

 

I have no experience with them, but from what I see on their website, it looks legit. They even do GMP compliance. 

[4ever_young]

As another FYI:

 

If GenScript will talk to you, they can formulate any version of Epitalon you like, HCL salt, TFA salt etc. It will not cost much more from one form to the next, but it may take a few weeks to complete your formulation.

 

But if you contact them using a gmail or yahoo email address they may not respond.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Would subcutaneous injections work? Why are injections always mentioned as intramuscular?

[Nuke]

I can't see why sub-Q would not work. Even nasal administration seems to have an effect. Though I have no idea how much of the Epitalon reach tissues other than the brain that way.

[pleb]

There isn't really much difference between them. There are more blood vessels in muscles so it gets into the body quicker. Sub cu has to get through the fatty tissue where there are less so it acts to slow down the length of time it takes to get into the system.

[yeims]

If it's something my answer, I have taken epithalon subcutaneously. I shop at 2 different sites. The effects were extremely noticeable on both occasions. Perhaps the second time was less noticeable.

Were punctures in the abdomen.

 

I read somewhere that epithalon works equally with subcutaneous injections. Or at least that's what I had understood, so use this form of injection. In fact, just one week I made my second cycle with excellent results ago.

 

Anyway, I might try the comments given intramuscular injections. 

But my final response to subcutaneous injections is that it works 100%, at least in my case

[pleb]

It takes about 30 seconds to get into the bloodstream taken sub-Cu .
taken into the muscle is almost straight away . The blood travels round the body in less than 2 minutes into all veins and arteries. So take your pick ones as good as the other.
Some are site specific for various reasons cortisone is normally give into the area of the injury so that a smaller amount is needed and is injected as close to the injury site as possible.