10 replies to this topic

[PhaQ]

Looking for some educated guesses on the amount of methylene blue one would have to take per day to get about the same amount of MAO inhibition as smoking about half a pack of smokes a day? 10mcg? 1mg? 100mg? I want to quit cigarettes but keep the mild MAOI effects.

Any help is appreciated.

[niner]

My educated guess is closer to 100mg than to 1. Certainly not 10mcg. Good luck with the quitting; I'd take a look at nicotine supplementation.

[ZRTMWA]

A little unrelated but I actually just read a study quoted in TIME that said that most of the time patches and gums were unsuccessful in helping smokers quit. At least compard to banning smoking and raising tobacco taxes.

Edited by ZRTMWA, 16 January 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[PhaQ]

I have some nicotine drops already on the way. They were super cheap. If I can justify the expense, I might get an e-cig kit. I really enjoy smoking, and it definitely has some benefits IMHO, but the cons outweigh it so much. I thought about curcumin for the reversible MAOI, but methylene blue is so insanely cheap, and I'm runnning low on funds right now.

[hippocampus]

turmeric with little black pepper is also cheap

[PhaQ]

I thought the level of monoamine oxidase inhibiton was around 30%, and finally found where I read that.

http://biopsychiatry.com/smokmaoa.htm

Smokers had significantly lower brain MAO A than nonsmokers in all brain regions examined (average reduction, 28%).

The Ki for methylene blue is 27+-3nm. devinthayer has done the math and that is equivalent to 52mcg

Molecular Weight: 319.85 g/mol
Active MOAI A at: 27nM/L (source) ("...very potent inhibitor of MAO A with a Ki of 27nM...")
Blood Stream Volume: 6L

319.85 * 27 * (10^(-9)) * 6 = 5.18157 × 10^-5

So an injection of 52mcg would have some MAOI effect.

The oral dose equivalent would be about ten times that or 520mcg or 0.52mg.

I have decided that wen my methylene blue and nicotine comes. I'll start at one drop split into three doses for about 0.42mg per dose. If I have no adverse effects, I'll slowly try titrating up to one drop (~1.25mg) three times a day, just because I'm lazy and that would make dosing easier.

Anyone see any major flaws or errors?

[niner]

The Ki for methylene blue is 27+-3nm. devinthayer has done the math and that is equivalent to 52mcg

Molecular Weight: 319.85 g/mol
Active MOAI A at: 27nM/L (source) ("...very potent inhibitor of MAO A with a Ki of 27nM...")
Blood Stream Volume: 6L

319.85 * 27 * (10^(-9)) * 6 = 5.18157 × 10^-5

So an injection of 52mcg would have some MAOI effect.

The oral dose equivalent would be about ten times that or 520mcg or 0.52mg.

Anyone see any major flaws or errors?

Yeah. For getting the concentration needed to inhibit the enzyme, you should use the IC50 rather than the Ki. The IC50 for MB against MAO is 164nM, IIRC. That would be about a factor of 5 higher.

The injection idea would only be correct momentarily, but then the MB is going to partition out into the body, and it's going to result in a much lower concentration. That's probably another factor of ten. That plus the factor of 5 gets you up to about 25mg as an oral dose, and that's just a plausible starting point. Is 50% inhibition enough? Dunno. Would you even get 50%? More? Dunno. I don't think you'll get anything at 500mcg, though.

[PhaQ]

Yeah. For getting the concentration needed to inhibit the enzyme, you should use the IC50 rather than the Ki. The IC50 for MB against MAO is 164nM, IIRC. That would be about a factor of 5 higher.

The injection idea would only be correct momentarily, but then the MB is going to partition out into the body, and it's going to result in a much lower concentration. That's probably another factor of ten. That plus the factor of 5 gets you up to about 25mg as an oral dose, and that's just a plausible starting point. Is 50% inhibition enough? Dunno. Would you even get 50%? More? Dunno. I don't think you'll get anything at 500mcg, though.

Ok thanks for the info. So I'll start around 12.5mg and titrate up slowly.

[DSTiamat]

I dont have anything to do with nicotine as I dont smoke, but i am currently on 100mg/day MB ,as I have depression. In one Bipolar study MB was used at 200mg/day and in malaria threatment at more than 200mg, so I assume it is safe. I am carefull to not combine it with any Serotonine drugs. What I can say you is that it helps me, maybe not enough , but it surely helps, I dont know what levels of MAO inhibition I am reaching (would also gladly like to know it).
I dont think that even at 100 mg it 50 % inhibition, as it feels a bit stronger than Curcumin which is rated at 30%, Maybe with 200mg you could get 50% and more.Just my to cents.Maybe the big fishes in here could help a bit.It definitly HELPS!
DST

[PhaQ]

I dont have anything to do with nicotine as I dont smoke, but i am currently on 100mg/day MB ,as I have depression. In one Bipolar study MB was used at 200mg/day and in malaria threatment at more than 200mg, so I assume it is safe. I am carefull to not combine it with any Serotonine drugs. What I can say you is that it helps me, maybe not enough , but it surely helps, I dont know what levels of MAO inhibition I am reaching (would also gladly like to know it).
I dont think that even at 100 mg it 50 % inhibition, as it feels a bit stronger than Curcumin which is rated at 30%, Maybe with 200mg you could get 50% and more.Just my to cents.Maybe the big fishes in here could help a bit.It definitly HELPS!
DST

I originally wanted to take curcumin because I'm only looking for about 30% of reversible inhibition, also I think it would help with my allergies, but I'm between jobs right now, so I'm going with methylene blue because its so cheap.

[DSTiamat]

Anyone maybe a Idea on the levels of inhibition?Maybe a clue?