6 replies to this topic

[nezxon]

I thought I'd update this forum on my progress at 270+ days of continuous nootropic use. I've altered my exact dosing and schedule here and there, but here's my current regimen:

Twice daily, every 12 hours (8am and 8pm).
Nootropics:
Piracetam 9600 mg
Acetyl L-Carnitine 1500 mg
Aniracetam 1500 mg
Oxiracetam 800 mg
CDP Choline 500 mg
Pramiracetam 400 mg
Centrophenoxine 250 mg
Pyritinol 200 mg
Sulbutiamine 200 mg
Picamilon 100 mg
DMAA 20 mg
Huperzine A 100 mcg

In addition to the above list, I also take the following supplements, also every 12 hours (8am and 8pm)
Vitamin C 5000 mg
Salmon Oil 2000 mg
Vitamin D3 2000 IU

All of the following supplements are taken only once daily (8am)
Multivitamin: Vitamin A 3500 IU (29% as beta-carotene), Vitamin C 60 mg, Vitamin D 400 IU, Vitamin E 30 IU (dl-alpha), Vitamin K 25 mcg, Thiamin 1.5 mg, Riboflavin 1.7 mg, Niacin 20 mg, Vitamin B6 2 mg, Folic Acid 400 mcg, Vitamin B12 6 mcg, Biotin 30 mcg, Pantothenic Acid 10 mg, Calcium 200 mg, Iron 18 mg, Phosphorous 20 mg, Iodine 150 mcg, Magnesium 50 mg, Zinc 11 mg, Selenium 55 mcg, Copper 0.5 mg, Manganese 2.3 mg, Chromium 35 mcg, Molybdenum 45 mcg, Chloride 72 mg, Potassium 80 mg, Boron 75 mcg, Nickel 5 mcg, Silicon 2 mg, Tin 10 mcg, Vanadium 10 mcg

B-100 Complex: Thiamin 100 mg, Riboflavin 100 mg, Niacin 100 mg, Vitamin B-6 100 mg, Folic Acid 400 mcg, Vitamin B-12 100 mcg, Biotin 100 mcg, Pantothenic Acid 100 mg, PABA 2 mg, Wheat Bran 4 mg, Alfalfa 2 mg, Watercress 2 mg, Parsley 2 mg, Brewer's Yeast 2 mg, Soy Lecithin 1 mg

Caffeine 400 mg
Vitamin E 400 IU (dl-alpha)
Aspirin 81 mg delayed-release (adult low dose)
Probiotic 20 billion live cultures

Three times per week (8am):
Deprenyl 2.5 mg

Five days per week at bed time:
Melatonin 5 mg

I think the most obvious adjustments I plan on making are to use a higher quality multivitamin and Vitamin E. I'm taking dl-alpha Vitamin E because I bought a bottle of it mistaking it for d-alpha, and it was before I had read enough about Vitamin E to know I should be looking for mixed tocopheryls. I bought the multivitamin because it was on sale and I was too lazy to search for a higher quality one at the time. I've spotted a couple high-quality multivitamins on the internet so I plan to replace it with one of those when the bottle runs out.

I've known people to comment that I may be taking too much Vitamins C, the Bs, and D, but in my defense I've been taking them for the better part of a decade, only the nootropics are a recent addition. Thankfully, I've experienced virtually no discernible side effects from any of the supplements/nootropics. I think there are definite improvements in memory, concentration, and motivation. Although I think of it as a subtle effect, I still find it phenomenal that pills to make oneself smarter exist.

I visited the doctor 3 weeks ago and my blood pressure, heart rate, kidney function, liver function, and blood sugar levels all tested in completely normal ranges. There are a few additions I'm making this week. I'll be adding Noopept 15 mg twice daily (8am/8pm), Hydergine 4.5 mg twice daily (8am/8pm), and Galantamine 8 mg every other morning (8am). There you have it, my complete supplementation schedule.

[Verne]

That sounds like a pretty intense stack. 270+ days of continuous use, that's impressive.

I think there are definite improvements in memory, concentration, and motivation. Although I think of it as a subtle effect, I still find it phenomenal that pills to make oneself smarter exist.

How subtle? Do you think it's because you've been using the nootropics for so long, that you've become used to the effects? Or would you say the effects were subtle from the very beginning, definitely there, just harder to pick up on? Do you ever remember the effects being more pronounced when you first began?

Your dosages seem reasonable to me, though moderately high. That amount of vitamins you're taking is quite a bit, but if you've received good word from the doctor then I suppose all is well. What dosage did you start off with, surely you've increased it over time? I don't hear of many people taking 9600mg of Piracetam (Plus additional nootropics!) twice a day. If anything, your clear thinking shines through in the clear formatting of this post.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this regimen? What is it definitely helping you with? And so that I don't have to calculate the costs myself, roughly how much per month does this cost you? I'd like to try something similar myself (Though for now, probably only around 1/3 of what you're taking).

Edit: One more question: How did you arrive at your current stack?

Edited by Verne, 02 February 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[hippocampus]

Do you cycle nootropics?

[nezxon]

How subtle? Do you think it's because you've been using the nootropics for so long, that you've become used to the effects? Or would you say the effects were subtle from the very beginning, definitely there, just harder to pick up on? Do you ever remember the effects being more pronounced when you first began?

To put it in numbers, it seems like a 5-20% overall improvement in most areas of cognitive function. I think that's subtle, it's not like instant genius. The effects did seem most pronounced on the first day or two, but it was subtle even at the beginning. The effect doesn't seem to be decreasing, I still feel like I'm getting as much benefit now as when I started. I've heard people describe alcohol or narcotic-like effects from some of the nootropics. Some people say certain nootropics induce euphoria or make them sleepy, foggy, confused, or dulls their emotions but I haven't really experienced anything so obvious or overwhelming. Mostly just a sense of calm and alert focus.

What dosage did you start off with, surely you've increased it over time? I don't hear of many people taking 9600mg of Piracetam (Plus additional nootropics!) twice a day. If anything, your clear thinking shines through in the clear formatting of this post.

Thanks for the compliment. With Piracetam, I started with 3000mg three times a day, the rest of the nootropics I started at roughly the same level I'm taking now, but only once per day instead of twice or even up to 4 times per day for some (Aniracetam most notably). After a few months of trying to manage multiple individual dosing schedules I decided to simplify it all by just doing 2 doses per day instead of trying to maximize duration. I've read a lot of research indicating the safety of fairly high doses of Piracetam, and a 9600mg dose, although on the high side, seems to be within effective ranges. I'm pretty sure most of the Piracetam is eliminated long before the second dose so I do see added benefit in a second daily dose.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this regimen? What is it definitely helping you with? And so that I don't have to calculate the costs myself, roughly how much per month does this cost you?

I have some long term goals of preventing alzheimer's which runs in my family, short term goals are to just improve my overall mental function. One thing I believe it's helping me with is that about 5 months ago I started working as a pharmacy technician, I seem to be doing well at the job and I've learned most of the skills fairly quickly. I'm fairly certain I'll be a certified pharm tech within the next few weeks. This stack is costing me about $300/mo. Although Piracetam is often thought of as the least expensive, at this dose it's actually the highest cost nootropic I'm taking (about $55/mo). I am planning on cutting costs by both ordering in larger bulk and eliminating some of the supplements I think overlap in function (like taking only Prami/Oxi instead of all 4 racetams). Picamilon is one I might consider stopping when I finish with what I have. I cut it out of my stack for about 4 months because it seems like one of the weaker nootropics and it was on the pricier side, but I found a sale on some so I bought 240 capsules (4 month supply). I think that'll be a long enough evaluation period and I'll know if I plan to keep it permanently or not.

Edit: One more question: How did you arrive at your current stack?

I read about individual nootropics and effective doses, and then added things in as I learned more about them. Some people might think it sounds extreme or that I'm just taking everything on the shelf that promises to make you smarter, but I'm only taking things which I deemed both safe and effective. I'm only really interested in stuff with at least some track record of neuropharmacological activity. I think one guiding factor in designing my stack is that I wasn't chasing a buzz so I really only consider each substances improves performance at various tasks. I think it's easy to feel good, but enhancing performance is a lot rarer breed of animal. Unfortunately, there's not really a single substance that captures the entire spectrum of cognitive improvement so I felt I needed such a large stack to improve a lot of individual things. I take pyritinol to improve synaptic response time, I take racetams for their memory, concentration, and motivational effect. I'm using all 4 racetams to take advantage of the unique properties of each but also to make sure I'm modulating both AMPA and NMDA receptors. I take picamilon to provide calm focus. I take sulbutiamine for alertness, DMAA for energy, Huperzine A and Galantamine for memory support as AChEIs. Centrophenoxine, ALCAR, and CDP Choline to provide a continuous supply of acetylcholine precursors.

Do you cycle nootropics?

Not generally. I've cycled on and off Picamilon, Hydergine, Pyritinol, and Adrafinil, but that's primarily due to cost or availability, not for reasons of effectiveness. I've undoubtedly missed a dose or two here and there, but largely I try to maintain a consistent schedule without cycling. I don't believe I've gone an entire day without at least one racetam, choline, and sulbutiamine. I don't feel a need to cycle because I haven't experienced any noticeable side effects or tolerance.

[Baten]

> Caffeine 400 mg

I think this is the only thing that shouldn't be in your stack, but only because I don't like caffeine because of the possibility of dependence.

[JChief]

That is a lot of racetam action my friend! Not for the faint of heart I see a lot of nootropics in that regimen that do a variety of things. It's a bit much for me but glad you are doing well on this stack

[Introspecta]

I'd be a little worried about all that caffiene and piracetam killing your adrenals. You may crash hard from this. Or possibly your one of those people that will be just fine no matter how much you tax your adrenals. I've noticed in some of my High dose piracetam adventures I would be a little extra tired in the morning until my dose. This was after months of using 20+grams though. Could of been choline related too