Vitamin D sleep experiment
gwern 14 Feb 2012
You can find the background & literature search, experiment setup, data (tabular & raw), and statistical analysis (in R) here: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#vitamin-d
I figure there are so many people here using vitamin D that someone must be taking it at or near bedtime, and they really should hear about this.
Krell 15 Feb 2012
I have been taking 5000IU D3 for 5 or 6 days per week just before bed, and as I think back, it seems that my sleep events such as waking up and not being able to get back to sleep have been worse after taking D3.
So last night I did not take D3 in the evening and slept quite well. Only one data point, but I will definitely change my D3 schedule to see if this is confirmed longer term.
Thanks again!
niner 19 Feb 2012
My photobiology/chronobiology hypothesis is that we normally get D from sunlight, and we are not supposed to fall asleep when the sun is still bright. The blast of D may be acting as a signal that it's daytime. I've been taking D at dinner time; I think I'll switch to breakfast.
gwern 19 Feb 2012
Gwern, this is a really great observation. You might want to do a trial with morning D as well. I think you should publish this.
I've already started the morning trial; I'll finish in 50-70 days. Is there anywhere that publishes material like this?
Never had a problem taking vitamin D at bedtime...
How would you know? Sleep is pretty variable and taking vitamin D isn't the first explanation one jumps to after a bad night's sleep; look at how many good nights I had on vitamin D. Never the less...
Edited by gwern, 19 February 2012 - 08:37 PM.
Matt 19 Feb 2012
nupi 25 Feb 2012
brokenportal 25 Feb 2012
niner 25 Feb 2012
I am taking it in the morning and before sleep. Does not look like it affects sleep majorly so far (I am not so sure how much trust I give into the data that comes out of my Zeo either way)
There's no need to take it multiple times a day because it has such a long half life. Just take it all in the morning. I used to take it with my other lipid-solubles at dinner time, but I've moved D to the morning.
hippocampus 25 Feb 2012
Hebbeh 25 Feb 2012
I am taking it in the morning and before sleep. Does not look like it affects sleep majorly so far (I am not so sure how much trust I give into the data that comes out of my Zeo either way)
There's no need to take it multiple times a day because it has such a long half life. Just take it all in the morning. I used to take it with my other lipid-solubles at dinner time, but I've moved D to the morning.
If it has a long half life, why will it matter what time of day that it is supplemented? I've seen half life numbers of 2 weeks up to 2 months quoted in research literature. Even at the lower 2 weeks, a few hours of supplementation time will have virtually no effect on blood serum levels. This just doen't make sense. I've been tested with levels as high as 136 ng/ml and I slept like a baby as usual.
HaloTeK 25 Feb 2012
Hi everyone, I recently finished up a 40-day double-blind randomized placebo-controlled trial on whether/how Vitamin D affected my sleep (as measured by a Zeo); summary: vitamin D hurt my sleep when taken at night.
You can find the background & literature search, experiment setup, data (tabular & raw), and statistical analysis (in R) here: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#vitamin-d
I figure there are so many people here using vitamin D that someone must be taking it at or near bedtime, and they really should hear about this.
I figure you guys are familiar with Seth Roberts blog? http://blog.sethroberts.net/
He's been blogging about timing on vitamin D supplements for months now.
The simple consensus, people seem to sleep better when taking vitamin D in the morning vs at night.
gwern 25 Feb 2012
I figure you guys are familiar with Seth Roberts blog? http://blog.sethroberts.net/
He's been blogging about timing on vitamin D supplements for months now.
The simple consensus, people seem to sleep better when taking vitamin D in the morning vs at night.
I am... Linked a number of anecdotes in the first sentence, even. The consensus may be right, but it's based on really crappy anecdotes, and assuming there's anything to it, it may just be comparing baseline sleep against sleep-damaged-by-vitamin-d-at-night. To know, you'd need sleep unaffected by vitamin D, sleep affected by vitamin D at night, and sleep affected by vitamin D at morning. Will there be 3 distinct averages, or just 2? That's why I started a vitamin D in the morning experiment a little while ago. We'll see how it goes.
niner 26 Feb 2012
If it has a long half life, why will it matter what time of day that it is supplemented? I've seen half life numbers of 2 weeks up to 2 months quoted in research literature. Even at the lower 2 weeks, a few hours of supplementation time will have virtually no effect on blood serum levels. This just doen't make sense. I've been tested with levels as high as 136 ng/ml and I slept like a baby as usual.
Good question. It might have something to do with its equilibration between different compartments. Maybe some organ is uniquely susceptible to rapidly rising concentrations, like popping a pill or being in the sun. It certainly makes mechanistic sense that there could be a chronobiological connection, since in the natural state, we would get a bolus of D from the mid-day sun. Considering that and the sleep experiments and the anecdotes, and the fact that there's no cost or downside to taking it in the morning instead of night, I see no reason not to do it. I'd still like to know if it's a real effect or not, but at this point I'd have to err on the side of it being real, if perhaps small.
Lufega 26 Feb 2012
Logic 02 May 2012
GerberDominik 05 May 2012
Get in touch with poisonous ingredients, damaging chemical compounds, unwanted effects of particular drugs could also bring about this sort of problem which the amount of vitamin D is less than the regular amount. Bodily situations for instance tone of the dermis or even volume of human body fat can also be to blame for low level vitamin D. Darkish complexion may also be the reason of minimal vitamin D amounts within the physique.
dear mrclock 21 Sep 2012
someone asked about bioavailibity of vitamin d, from medical books i have read, it seems vitamin d is stored in the liver for few months more or less depending on environmental conditions, stress, disease etc. why would people be taking large doses of vitamin d if you are healthy ?
gwern, i was wondering to ask about your site, do you do only experiments related to sleep ? you should probably review more supplements out there that are related or even non-related to sleep.
also, gwern which vitamin d supplement do you use ? a lot of crappy brands out there, most of them are either not as absorbable or effective. in my experience, any vitamin d in capsule form as powder is just garbage. it has to be softgel with actual oil for absorption. it seems the one you take works for you, so unless you have a reason not sharing the brand, please do tell.
hav 22 Sep 2012
Howard
dear mrclock 22 Sep 2012
hav 22 Sep 2012
Fwiw, my wife takes the same softgels 2x a day and does not seem to experience any sleep effect whether she takes it with breakfast or dinner which is typically around 7 pm for us. She has a pill-taking aversion, btw, so prefers to take 1 at breakfast and the other at dinner to minimize the number at any one time.
Howard
niner 11 Oct 2012
Fwiw, my wife takes the same softgels 2x a day and does not seem to experience any sleep effect whether she takes it with breakfast or dinner which is typically around 7 pm for us. She has a pill-taking aversion, btw, so prefers to take 1 at breakfast and the other at dinner to minimize the number at any one time.
Your wife could use 2000 IU softgels instead, then she'd only have to take one. Or she could just skip the evening dose. Depends what she really needs to hit the level she wants. 1000/d would be plenty for me, but people differ.
hav 13 Oct 2012
Also, I just got bloodwork done the other day. My total D25 OH was reported at 37 ng/ml. The reported indicated a reference range of 30-100. Are my levels sufficient?
Howard
knightly 28 Jun 2014
+REP
Great post and test , thank you !!!1!
holy jesus !!!!
your website..... DUDE.
DUDE.
NICE ,,,.... N I C E !!!
oneshot2shots 28 Jun 2014
Have been sleeping well the last week, wondering why it was as my sleep has always been very variable. I'm pretty sure its the 2000iu I take in the morning, I wasn't actually aware that D3 affected sleep at all.