37 replies to this topic

[Mike C]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5466936/

[Castiel]

Maybe they don't make the connection because what you claim is not true. Mice produce their own vitamin C and they can also get cardiovascular disease.

I think there are mutant strains that don't produce it.

 

Also look at this

 

 

Lipid-enriched diets are often used to induce or accelerate the rate of atherosclerotic lesion development in murine models of atherosclerosis. It appears that the induction of persistent hypercholesterolemia to levels >&300 mg/dL is required for the development of experimental atherosclerosis in the mouse.Dec 22, 2005

https://www.ahajourn...201071.49029.17

 

This suggests to me that highly abnormal conditions must be induced to cause atherosclerosis to occur in mice that do produce vitamin c.

 

 

 

We can also see the case of Guinea pigs.

 

 

 Guinea pigs have been the primary in vivo model of vitamin C deficiency since the 1930s [15, 16] and some 20 years later, it was shown that vitamin C deficiency on its own could cause atherosclerotic lesions in the aorta of guinea pigs.

https://onlinelibrar...43.2009.00420.x

 

Guinea pigs, like humans, also don't synthesize vitamin c, if not supplemented with vitamin c( 10 and 30 mg/kg daily, think equivalent to several grams in humans) I heard they develop severe atherosclerosis.

 

Also resveratrol is said to extend lifespan of mice on high fat diet, raising it to normal mice lifespan.   So it might or might not have an effect in this  area.

 

BTW, heard tocotrienols might help reverse atherosclerosis.   Anyone done deeper research on that?

Edited by Castiel, 04 October 2020 - 12:44 AM.

[Gal220]

Last post on previous page , tocotrienols mentioned in every link.

[OlderThanThou2]

There was an article last month in the Life Extension Magazine about French maritime pine bark and centella asiatica for plaque reversal :

https://www.lifeexte...atherosclerosis

 

 

[Mind]

Here is another thread about reversing heart disease. It highlights the journey of a man who reversed his "incurable" heart disease with diet (more ketogenic), exercise, and supplementation (including a supplement he created on his own). https://www.longecit...-heart-disease/

[Mind]

Here is a recent video I did with Patrick Thuet. 4 years later and he is still going strong after reversing his heart disease on his own. 

[Dorian Grey]

Nattokinase & Berberine FIXED MY ANGINA!  They worked better than I ever believed possible. 

 

In early 2023, at 66 years of age, just after 2 J&J COVID vaccinations and 2 COVID infections in 2022, I started noticing angina while hiking up a hill in the park.  

 

I had long been a very moderate smoker of a pipe after dinner with my evening tipple, so I stopped this immediately, and soon found info on Nattokinase and Berberine as being helpful.  I started on the Natto @ 2K FU/day, but got spooked off the Berberine due to reports of possible DNA damage (YIKES!).  I also started on baby aspirin 3 days a week.  I did not modify diet much, and enjoyed cake or ice cream for dessert when dining out, and loved my large (and sweet) margarita when we had Mexican, with 3 gin & Light Tonics (more fructose) after dinner.  

 

When my favorite Irish pub announced they were closing soon, I started dining there frequently, consuming lots of fried fish & chips and such, and suddenly experienced a dramatic rise in my angina symptoms.  Doing more research, I found the study stating High Dose Natto (around 12K FU/day) had actually reduced plaques on carotid ultrasound, so I started on this high dose regime. I didn't notice a lot of difference, so I started looking at Berberine again, & saw the potential DNA damage was similar to a mechanism seen in Quercetin and EGCG in green tea (topoisomerase inhibitors)???  What?  Quercetin & Green Tea don't cause cancer!  So I asked AI if there had ever been any association between Berberine & cancer, and AI said NO, so I bit the bullet and started on 500mg regular (not high absorption) Berberine twice a day with meals. 

 

I had heard the primary benefit from Berberine was that it suppressed the bacteria in the colon that turned dietary choline into Trimethylamine / TMA, which gets converted to TMAO in the liver, which was supposed to be highly inflammatory to vascular endothelium, thus you don't want enhanced absorption Berberine, but regular, which stays in the gut.  This was 6 weeks after I started the high dose Natto, which hadn't shown much effect...  Until suddenly, everything changed!  

 

Around a week after I started on the Berberine, my exertional angina was suddenly much better, BUT I also started getting some rather terrifying cardiac vasospasms, sudden onset while at rest in the mornings.  They would come on out of the blue like the worst angina attack I ever had, yet just as I was about to call emergency, they would fade within 5-10 minutes.  Dove into the research and AI said these types of spasms can be caused by "EROSIVE PLAQUE DISRUPTIONS", where a chunk of plaque tears away and you've got a sensitive vascular sore that triggers spasms until it is healed.  Was this the high dose Natto breaking up plaque?  Didn't know, but I held tight and did not quit the Natto, Berberine or see a doctor.  

 

After around 10 days, the coronary spasms subsided, and low and behold my exertional angina I'd been living with for 3 years was also GONE!  I was absolutely dumb-struck my cardiac adventure seemed to be over!  To be fair...  I stopped all sugar (margaritas & desserts when dining out and tonic with my gin before bed) and eliminated ALL seed oils & fried food, though I still enjoyed red meat, potatoes with butter and other foods cardiologists frequently advise against.  I also upped my aspirin to 2, 81mg / day, one before bed and one upon rising as night & morning are when most heart attacks occur. 

 

I truly feel like I've got a new lease on life and everything's coming up roses!  Praise the Lord!  I'm celebrating tonight, and every night from here on.  Life is Good, and apparently it's not over yet for old Dorian.  

Attached Files

•  NattoWORKS.pdf   357.57KB   1 downloads

Edited by Dorian Grey, Yesterday, 04:37 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Here's what I found on Berberine...  

Attached Files

•  BERBERINEandDNA.pdf   388.26KB   0 downloads
•  BerberineWOW.pdf   1.6MB   0 downloads
•  BerberineBeatsCrestor.pdf   4.57MB   0 downloads
•  BerberineFullMonty.pdf   474.73KB   0 downloads