Don:
think it is entirely possible that, even in a world rapidly approaching singularity, the philosophical conundrum that surrounds the concept of duplication may not be resolved. In such a scenario, certain individuals who could not accept the legitimacy of duplication would be incapable of such a merger of like minds. And even if such a person were to be duplicated, their duplicates would share the same aversion that they did.
First Don's last point. The paradox you represent is a good reason for the individual with that psychology to resist and not volunteer to be uploaded under any circumstances. However such problems are probably discernible with pre-screening.
The reverse is however also theoretically possible, to seek and find individuals with no such problems with symbiotic sharing and the real question we must begin to ask is if humans can build such a synthetic construct of more than a single individual intelligence then what are its potentials?
This leads to the scenario I wanted to present earlier Peter.
I agree that the technical abilities of our present rate of scientific progress are too slow to suggest that *downloading* will be possible for personalties or even complex psycho-physiological aspects without the most advanced and invasive techniques presently imaginable and may be dependent on breakthroughs in alternative technologies like nano before being remotely considered for the pasting part of the copying but the copying part alone may not be as complex as suggested.
You see the author of this thread made a point, albeit unwittingly about this being a two part process, the copying and the pasting. We have all been calling them combined as *uploading* but frankly that is not exactly correct and in a sense Amordaad is more correct to call it copy/pasting.
I would suggest that the copying part may be much easier than the pasting part and here I agree with Peter completely, pasting, whether as simple emotions and complex data or whole personalties is going to be immensely complex but the copying part may not be nearly as difficult.
Yes, there are more than a few thresholds of knowledge to overcome, like where are all the loci of the matrix of personality stored in the active brain and how is the data encrypted, as well as how does the system integrate memory function and active sensory awareness into a coherent personality, and is personality described by a single *program* like an Operating System or a multiple of programs integrated through some physical property of the wetware?
But those are far more reasonable goals to meet than impossible. They do not depend on technologies we don't have, only refinements of the technology we do have. The answers to these question will bring even more difficult questions I suspect but we are on the downhill side of the slope in this quest; we have the tools and we have the theoretical models and we are remarkably close to answering some of the definitions of the mind conclusively.
OK, so Peter and I had a discussion a while ago about an idea I had for utilizing fMRI for uploading and he got me to realize why the download part of the issue was too complex but actually I want to return to something about the holographic resolution issue, I don't think it is too much longer before we will be able to monitor all neural activity simultaneously down to nearly a molecular level.
Now monitoring is not downloading but monitoring passively is still a way to possibly *copy* a personality into a synthetic matrix of a computer web sufficiently compatible to manage the data from the active mind and store it not as just numbers but program information.
That program being our *selves*.
Getting out of the box (so to speak) later is a different story so for the rest of this post I am only going to focus on some aspects of what that strict upload side might include.
First Peter I fully expect you to disagree with my proposal to upload through a very sophisticated fMRI but I also fully expect that technology, in as little as the next ten to fifteen years might reach a level of precision and detail capable of simultaneously recording every synaptic action individually, as well as integrate other data input fields, monitor soft tissue activity and so as to take into account more complex neurotransmitters and hormonal activity creating a whole body image of the mind. All of this will tie together with the kinds of precise information coming from labs like yours right now.
Second I expect us to find a few areas where the real-time data might be accessed that we aren't currently utilizing to capacity now out at the periphery of the nervous system and as blood chemistry and metabolic data are all integrated to build a more complex heuristic construct of personality the upload program may be able to be interactive and stimulate recall through more normalized methods like visual, aural, and olfactory stimuli. The point of this conjecture is that it is far more reasonable to suggest we might be able to copy personality than to transmit it back into a biological form.
So if we can copy humans into a complex synthetic neural net what does that mean?
Yes this presumes we have a hardware sufficiently sophisticated to *run* the human sourced software and this is no small step to be underestimated. But it is a different proposition than actually designing the complexity of this *human ware.*
Also before reaching the stage of true cybernetics lets look at a few interim steps beginning with just the possibility of uploading, and what multiple uploaded individuals would represent.
A true cyborg would be able to process the synthetic neural net into an integrated functional robot body but that step, like that of downloading is still one step over the horizon. But there are still profound aspects that are much more pragmatically possible. And while we are a ways away from this level of sophisticated hardware with portable processing ability we are not so far from the first true quantum computers that will be like primitive UNIVAC's in relation to modern PC's. But those behemoth scale quantum computers may perhaps offer sufficient processing ability and speed to manage the complexity of containing human minds.
So what if an uploaded mind could function in a virtual environment, provided with virtual feedback that mimics the biological information (virtual biofeedback loops) taken from the uploading process and what if we could also bring multiple personalities together through that virtual realm into a super mind of integrated intelligence and ability?
Is this a practical step around the question of greater than *individual* human intelligence by maximizing our ability to both augment intelligence through direct hardware advantages (the fastest quantum computers, vast data banks of knowledge, the web, and super math/language processing ability) along with more than one person's copy such that these virtual copies are able to do what the originals aren't; merge and diverge at will, all while functioning?
By this approach we might have the ability to upload individual personalities into an interactive virtual world as companions to support one another and also to integrate with the most advanced computer software to create a hybrid consciousness that is part AI and part amalgam of human and bring the sophistication of human awareness to the virtual as a synthesis. A synthesis that might be capable of jump starting many of our technological conundrums and leapfrog the problems of Inhumane Super Intelligence.
Also this active matrix data bank of personalties would be able to be updated with subsequent memory as the source continued living, such that the two divergent personalities would be able to be *upgraded* until the death of the original if that were to occur but the upgrade would actually be an independent experience with multiple cumulative memory because it would also have the virtual experience as a part of its memory as well as interactive with our real world experience through the interface of the web. I offer this as an alternative Seed AI strategy.
Possible?
Heh it's just conjecture but let's go further.
Biological humans might not be able to integrate into a super-conscience but what is the reason that psychologically competent individuals prepared for the integrative synthesis could not?
And once this process were perfected, as it poses no real threat to the volunteers why not invite some of humanity's most competent, sane, and compassionate to join this super-conscious matrix?
Talent in this respect should reflect the broad spectrum of human abilities and not simply technical expertise. There would be a need to introduce many diverse representatives of human interest and integrative ability so as to maximize the potential intelligence and wisdom of this *virtual utopia*
This approach would store and update our consciousness as a reserve until future tech could provide download ability but also it creates an alternative that makes the copy its own original with the ability to retain currency with real-time present awareness as time progresses and includes a transhumanist prospect of allowing adaptive intelligent augmentation that mimics genetic mutation for intelligence in a memetic fashion,
Frankly I doubt the return to our first birth bodies is particularly desirable and if a biological construct were possible that had the advantages of SENS encrypted in its genome along with genetically enhanced cerebral ability and enhanced physical and immune response then what prevents us from downloading at a much later time? Perhaps even at a neo or even prenatal stage along with a temporary memory suppression program so as to allow the download to integrate into the early forming body less traumatically?
Sure this is profoundly more advanced tech than we have now but suppose we could make allies of the most competent developmental team possible with a real self interest to make it work?
Edited by Lazarus Long, 09 March 2005 - 02:57 PM.
