15 replies to this topic

[InquilineKea]

http://www.treehugge...-particles.html says that none of them were able to remove lead particles. Which is definitely a concern...

[InquilineKea]

Okay well there's http://www.waterfilt...r-filter-review

So none of the pitchers work. I wonder if it's possible to get a countertop filter in an apartment I'm renting?

[gamesguru]

Okay well there's http://www.waterfilt...r-filter-review

So none of the pitchers work. I wonder if it's possible to get a countertop filter in an apartment I'm renting?

Nice find! This filtration system looks epic: http://www.aquasana....dc94hdyrt0c9mg0. What do you think about just buying distilled/spring/filtered water? I have heard there are some contaminants even in bottled, distilled water, depending upon the company. I'm not sure if that's true.

[niner]

http://www.treehugge...-particles.html says that none of them were able to remove lead particles. Which is definitely a concern...

Okay well there's http://www.waterfilt...r-filter-review

So none of the pitchers work. I wonder if it's possible to get a countertop filter in an apartment I'm renting?

Wait a minute. The danger from lead particles is a little hypothetical. How do you even know if you have lead particles in your water? Where would they come from? Municipal water systems are pretty good at clearing solids. I think dissolved lead is a much bigger problem, and the pitchers should work for that. As good as some of the undermount systems are, I didn't see any statement that they removed lead particles, as opposed to dissolved lead.

We should bear in mind that humans evolved in a world where heavy metals were present in the environment and water, and we have a number of systems for dealing with low levels of them. It isn't necessary to remove every last atom of toxic metals.

[InquilineKea]

Okay well there's http://www.waterfilt...r-filter-review

So none of the pitchers work. I wonder if it's possible to get a countertop filter in an apartment I'm renting?

Nice find! This filtration system looks epic: http://www.aquasana....dc94hdyrt0c9mg0. What do you think about just buying distilled/spring/filtered water? I have heard there are some contaminants even in bottled, distilled water, depending upon the company. I'm not sure if that's true.

Hmm - I'd imagine that the costs of buying distilled/spring/filtered water would add up really quickly. And also - the EWG did a study on it and it showed that most companies that bottle water up from springs don't actually reveal their sources, so it's kind of suspicious.

But yes - definitely an epic filtration system.

http://www.treehugge...-particles.html says that none of them were able to remove lead particles. Which is definitely a concern...

Okay well there's http://www.waterfilt...r-filter-review

So none of the pitchers work. I wonder if it's possible to get a countertop filter in an apartment I'm renting?

Wait a minute. The danger from lead particles is a little hypothetical. How do you even know if you have lead particles in your water? Where would they come from? Municipal water systems are pretty good at clearing solids. I think dissolved lead is a much bigger problem, and the pitchers should work for that. As good as some of the undermount systems are, I didn't see any statement that they removed lead particles, as opposed to dissolved lead.

We should bear in mind that humans evolved in a world where heavy metals were present in the environment and water, and we have a number of systems for dealing with low levels of them. It isn't necessary to remove every last atom of toxic metals.

Hmm - good point about the distinction between dissolved lead and lead particles. How would pitchers work better for dissolved lead than for lead particles though? And wouldn't lead particles turn into dissolved lead given a long enough time + sufficiently acidic conditions?

It's true that we evolved in such a world, but we also didn't evolve to live very long either. Lead accumulation wasn't an issue when people rarely lived beyond age 40. But it could definitely be an issue for those with much longer lifespans.

Edited by InquilineKea, 18 March 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[niner]

Hmm - good point about the distinction between dissolved lead and lead particles. How would pitchers work better for dissolved lead than for lead particles though? And wouldn't lead particles turn into dissolved lead given a long enough time + sufficiently acidic conditions?

It's true that we evolved in such a world, but we also didn't evolve to live very long either. Lead accumulation wasn't an issue when people rarely lived beyond age 40. But it could definitely be an issue for those with much longer lifespans.

Once the lead is dissolved, it can participate in chemical reactions. That's the way the filters get it out; they're reacting it in some way or another that attaches it to something that holds on to it. If these filters aren't getting the lead-bearing particulates out, it's probably because they aren't able to stop extremely fine particles, and the lead is slipping by.

A long time ago, more people died at an early age, but some people still lived into their 70s or 80s. Over the centuries and decades, we've attained lower infant mortality, and had less death in middle age, but maximal ages haven't changed wildly. I don't think we have any evidence that very small amounts of heavy metals are having an impact on our maximal lifespan. If we removed the effects of the seven deadly things, but still had a little lead inside us, I bet we'd be fine.

[InquilineKea]

Oh okay I see about the lead and chemical reactions.

Regarding lead and lifespan - perhaps you're right. But lead exerts neurotoxic effects far before it starts affecting lifespan. Neurotoxic effects are almost always left out in animal studies. And that's what I'm really concerned about (it's the same reasoning with the pesticides too).

[Danail Bulgaria]

Since the lead atoms and ions are much heavier than water, they will need more energy to vaporise from the water surface, than the water molecules. So, one simple destilation should be enough to remove the lead from the water. You may consider buying a water destiller, not a water filter.

[niner]

Since the lead atoms and ions are much heavier than water, they will need more energy to vaporise from the water surface, than the water molecules. So, one simple destilation should be enough to remove the lead from the water. You may consider buying a water destiller, not a water filter.

I wouldn't recommend distillation. It will remove lead, but it will also remove ions like magnesium and lithium that you'd like to keep. Further, it will not remove all of the organics. Distilled water doesn't taste right, either. If you want it to taste good, you need to replace some of the missing salts.

[aim1]

More from Aquasana.


http://www.aquasana....nation_lead.php

[InquilineKea]

Wow, that is such an interesting link.

Next to chlorine, lead is the most common contaminant found in tap water. Lead in drinking water usually originates somewhere between the water main in the street and the household faucet, so treatment from a central point is not logical or practical. Most lead in drinking water comes from lead lined pipes, lead solder and brass plumbing fixtures inside your home. All chrome-plated brass and brass plumbing fixtures contain 8% to 15% lead. The EPA estimates that 98% of all homes have pipes, fixtures or solder joints in the household plumbing that can leach some level of lead into the tap water.

Hmm - another point I'd like to make (mostly for myself, really): in old age, people are not evolved to have high fluid intelligence. They are simply evolved to have high crystallized intelligence (that's where they communicate their experiences to the newer generation). But of course, I'd like to retain my fluid intelligence for as long as possible.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The majority of organic contaminents in the water especially the most dangerous microorganisms and toxins can be destroyed by high temperature and high preasure sterilisation. The non - organic contaminents can be distilled away. The good substances in the water can be added after the process, so ... How about distilling high temperature and high preassure sterilised water and adding the magnesium and lithium by dissolving a suplement?

[niner]

Next to chlorine, lead is the most common contaminant found in tap water. Lead in drinking water usually originates somewhere between the water main in the street and the household faucet, so treatment from a central point is not logical or practical. Most lead in drinking water comes from lead lined pipes, lead solder and brass plumbing fixtures inside your home. All chrome-plated brass and brass plumbing fixtures contain 8% to 15% lead. The EPA estimates that 98% of all homes have pipes, fixtures or solder joints in the household plumbing that can leach some level of lead into the tap water.

in old age, people are not evolved to have high fluid intelligence

The plumbing industry has been changing a lot in the past quarter century:

In 1986, Congress banned the use of lead solder containing greater than 0.2% lead, and restricted the lead content of faucets, pipes and other plumbing materials to 8.0%. Older construction may still have plumbing that has the potential to contribute lead to drinking water.

Since then, California and some New England state (Vermont?) have reduced the level of lead in brass parts (the only significant source of lead any more) to a very low level. Modern homes are virtually certain to have one of two types of plumbing: Plastic (PVC, ABS, or PEX), which has no lead except possibly from brass faucets, or Copper, which if old enough, could have lead in the solder joints, but the amount of surface exposed there is really very small. The real question is what is the level of lead that actually makes it into your drinking water, and does it represent a significant risk to fluid intelligence? How might it compare to the world of 40 years ago, when lead was vaporized and sprayed into the atmosphere by every passing car, our houses were painted with lead paint, and we brushed our teeth with toothpaste that came out of lead foil tubes? We've certainly reduced our body lead burden a lot since then. Have we reached the point of diminishing returns? I don't know, but I suspect we may have. Both of my kids have had lead levels done, and they are below today's lower cutoffs, despite living in a house built in 1962 that has some lead paint and copper plumbing with old solder and brass components. Are the lead levels that we now allow in children still too high? I don't know, but I tend to doubt it. I'm actually in the process of re-plumbing my house with PEX for performance reasons, as opposed to any concern about lead, and have not gone out of my way to use the ultra low lead brass parts required in California. The new system will have less lead than the old one, and the old one didn't seem to be a problem.

I still use a Brita filter for all the water I drink, so that should take care of what little lead remains, as well as copper. It won't remove Aluminum, which raises the risk of Alzheimer's, and I think is now a bigger concern than lead.

[InquilineKea]

Hmm - those are very good points you have. Do plastic plumbing systems carry the risk of dissolved VOCs or other potentially toxic organic compounds?

Do Brita filters even work for lead though? A comparison chart says that they don't (http://www.waterfilt..._comparison.php).

The thing with plumbing is that even though you probably don't have to worry about lead in modern homes, you probably have to worry about lead if you're moving to an older home. This is of concern to me since it appears likely that I'll be attending Brown University next year, and there are issues with lead in the water over in Providence.

[niner]

Hmm - those are very good points you have. Do plastic plumbing systems carry the risk of dissolved VOCs or other potentially toxic organic compounds?

Do Brita filters even work for lead though? A comparison chart says that they don't (http://www.waterfilt..._comparison.php).

The thing with plumbing is that even though you probably don't have to worry about lead in modern homes, you probably have to worry about lead if you're moving to an older home. This is of concern to me since it appears likely that I'll be attending Brown University next year, and there are issues with lead in the water over in Providence.

I think PEX is pretty clean. PVC less so, and I don't know about ABS but it's really rare. Wow, you're right about Brita not making a claim for lead with their pitchers! I didn't realize that. Their faucet filters are different, and they do make a lead claim for those, but not mercury, cadmium, or copper, which the pitcher claims. The waterfiltercomparison.com site is actually run by Aquasana, whose filters come out looking the best in the comparisons. As far as I can tell, their data looks ok, and maybe it's all on the up and up, but it's a little misleading that they make it look like an unbiased site. They do look like good filters, if the comparisons are all true. Still, all the filter companies hype up the danger of contaminants in water. It gets back to the same question: Are the contaminants in your water actually harmful?

If you live in an old house, there are a lot of things you can do to reduce your exposure:

Get your water tested.
Only use water from the cold tap, never hot, because hot water will leach more metals.
Run water for 1-2 minutes, then fill a pitcher or other large container to use later.
Periodically clean the aerator in your kitchen faucet to make sure there is no debris. This could be corrosion that has flaked off something in the system, and could further contaminate the water.
Eat a good diet with enough calcium, which will reduce the amount of lead you store.

Your biggest sources of lead are likely to be dust from lead paint, and there's also the problem of contaminated supplements and food products. However, I wouldn't devote too much energy on avoiding the things that are getting into your body in nanogram or microgram quantities. I would worry about macronutrients, essential vitamins and minerals, exercise, sleep, chrono- and photo-biology, and sun exposure. If all that is great, then worry about the little things.

[InquilineKea]

Oh wow - thanks for pointing out that the water filter comparison site is run by Aquasana! I didn't notice that at all.

How much money does it cost to get one's water tested? Yeah - those are all good ideas about reducing exposure to lead.

Yeah - pitchers/filters generally don't cost too much energy or time at all - which is why I'm fine with taking a little bit of time to do research into them.