30 replies to this topic

[chroncile]

My depression started since the beginning of my puberty (maybe there's a connection) and has been slowly getting worse over time. When I was 15 years old, I had a pretty good libido, but after I woke up deaf in one ear at the age of 16, my libido had started to decline at a rapid pace until it was dead. My depressive symptoms also got worse, much worse. Here is what I am experience as of right now:

• Extremely low libido. I can get an erection easily, but I don't feel anything from the erection. I never feel horny. Nothing turns me on.
• Extremely low motivation
• Severe anhedonia
• Inability to laugh at funny things
• Constant neutral or sad mood, never in a good mood
• Emotions feel numb. I'm never excited
• Constantly tired throughout the day
• Have to sleep for 12 hours or more
• Low appetite
• I have no goals in life
• Low concentration/attention
• Learning new things is very difficult

I went to a psychiatrist back in October of 2011 and got Wellbutrin XL 150 mg. I took it for about 30 days and it improved my symptoms somewhat, but it never made me feel right so I stopped taking it. I then saw a new psychiatrist in March who put me on Wellbutrin XL 150 mg for 7 days followed by 300 mg XL and I had to stop taking it by the third week because of all the side effects it gave me. It also affected my hearing in my only good ear so I was worried about it.

I went back and got a prescription for selegiline 5 mg. I'm currently on the second day of selegiline and so far I don't feel anything from it. It's suppose to work fast though so if I don't feel anything by the end of this week I'm going to stop taking it.

I'm currently taking Ashwagandha, fish oil, a multivitamin, magnesium, vitamin d and I'm thinking of taking Panax Ginseng and Maca. I already bought them a long time ago, but I thought there would be an interaction with selegiline so I decided not to take them. I think I'll start taking them again tomorrow.

Anyway, what options do I have if selegiline doesn't work for me? I'm thinking of trying Bacopa, but other than that I don't know what to do about my depression.

[Sir Chugalot]

I'm nowhere near a health professional, but reading that I'd automatically think about two things.

1) Your testosterone levels, have these ever been checked? It's important to test a number of hormones at the same time as T for example DHT and Estrogen,
2) Perhaps you're low on dopamine. Perhaps try a little tyrosine.

Again just ideas, avenues to explore.

[Sir Chugalot]

Actually, for me personally Bacopa left me feeling numb and unable to experience joy, and I'm normally very happy go lucky. Your experience may differ.

Edited by Sir Chugalot, 07 April 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[nupi]

Loss of hearing on one ear sounds like it could be something neurological, too. I would see a neurologist and get a head MRI if you have not already...

Bacopa is definitely worth a try (although its effects seem to vary a lot between people, from energizing to sedating, from motivating to making people lethargic...), also Rhodiola but NOT combined with Selegiline (stacking MAOIs is a terrible idea).

Edited by nupi, 07 April 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[Meggo]

Maybe you suffer from sleep apnea. Do you snore a lot? Have you ever checked your O2-Saturation during sleep? You can do this with a fingerclip oxymeter, which you could buy through every major internet shop.
Also i would suggest mindfulness meditation, it is good for almost anything. Try it for at least 3 month.

[chroncile]

I'm nowhere near a health professional, but reading that I'd automatically think about two things.

1) Your testosterone levels, have these ever been checked? It's important to test a number of hormones at the same time as T for example DHT and Estrogen,
2) Perhaps you're low on dopamine. Perhaps try a little tyrosine.

Again just ideas, avenues to explore.

I did get a blood test from my family doctor in Janurary, but he never mentioned anything about my hormone levels so I'm not sure if he tested those. He just told me that I had elevated blood sugar levels, but that's only because I ate breakfast before going to him.

I might get another blood test, but this time ask for all my hormones, vitamins and mineral levels to be tested.

Loss of hearing on one ear sounds like it could be something neurological, too. I would see a neurologist and get a head MRI if you have not already...

Bacopa is definitely worth a try (although its effects seem to vary a lot between people, from energizing to sedating, from motivating to making people lethargic...), also Rhodiola but NOT combined with Selegiline (stacking MAOIs is a terrible idea).

Can it still be neurological if I hear tinnitus all the time? I also can hear low bass noises because of the vibrations; my ear drum still works fine. I did get an MRI and it was normal.

Maybe you suffer from sleep apnea. Do you snore a lot? Have you ever checked your O2-Saturation during sleep? You can do this with a fingerclip oxymeter, which you could buy through every major internet shop.
Also i would suggest mindfulness meditation, it is good for almost anything. Try it for at least 3 month.

Not sure about this, I'm not aware if I snore or not, but I have never woken up from snoring. Though, I do sleep with my head covered partially with hole left open for breathing. Do you think this might have contributed to my depression?

[Luminosity]

In case it helps, I've made these self-expression threads:

http://www.longecity...ession-threads/

You should try talk therapy with a good therapist. Psychology Today's website has detailed listings of therapists by area, but I don't know if it extends to Canada. Generally Ph.D's are the better choices although not all of them are good. One out of ten Psy.D's is good but the others tend to be unstable. A few Psychiatrists are o.k. for talk therapy but most just want to drug and label everyone. It may take a while to find the right person. Don't be discouraged.

Edited by Luminosity, 07 April 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[Meggo]

Not sure about this, I'm not aware if I snore or not, but I have never woken up from snoring. Though, I do sleep with my head covered partially with hole left open for breathing. Do you think this might have contributed to my depression?


As long as you get enough oxygen into your system it should be no problem. If you are not aware if you snore or not just record the noises you make while you are sleeping. Watch out for long breathing pauses followed by gapsing noises.
If you have an android phone this app is useful: https://play.google....GVlcHRhbGsiXQ..

[dirdir207]

Considering you have tried wellbutrin on two separate occasions with little help I would conclude that this most probably isn't a dopamine related problem. The two most likely things that I can think of are either a deficiency in zinc, or a deficiency in choline. Both of which encompass many of your symptoms, they're both very cheap, and you may find you'll have dramatic results.

[chroncile]

Considering you have tried wellbutrin on two separate occasions with little help I would conclude that this most probably isn't a dopamine related problem. The two most likely things that I can think of are either a deficiency in zinc, or a deficiency in choline. Both of which encompass many of your symptoms, they're both very cheap, and you may find you'll have dramatic results.

I'm taking a multivitamin which includes zinc. It also includes choline, albeit in a low dosage. I have tried piracetam + choline before I took Wellbutrin and they actually made my depression worse.

[Introspecta]

Raise your Consciousness Spiritually and Happiness will come much more easier. This can be done through simply looking at yourself and working on yourself. Taking responsibility and owning that you created your reality. Then there are techniques to help such as meditation, practice unconditional love, contemplation, surrounding yourself with higher energy. Everyone wants to take the magic pill. Make the right choices and do postive things and You will become much more happy. Inner Joy exists no matter what the condition of the Brain

[Orajel]

Raise your Consciousness Spiritually and Happiness will come much more easier. This can be done through simply looking at yourself and working on yourself. Taking responsibility and owning that you created your reality. Then there are techniques to help such as meditation, practice unconditional love, contemplation, surrounding yourself with higher energy. Everyone wants to take the magic pill. Make the right choices and do postive things and You will become much more happy. Inner Joy exists no matter what the condition of the Brain

That right there!


In addition to that, ask your doctor about getting blood work done. You could have low testosterone or DHEA levels, or have a vitamin deficiency. Bloodwork is wonderful because it takes the guesswork out of things. Its a shame you didn't respond to wellbutrin, that sounds like the perfect med for you. But there are other good options. Look into rhodiola or sulbutiamine, it sounds like you need something stimulating. But the fact that you said you dont have any goals in life indicates you need a lifestyle overhaul. No pill is going to fix that. Good thoughts will follow good actions, its seldom the other way around.

Edit: If you're young (under 35) they will rarely test your hormone levels unless you specifically request it
Also, vinpocetine can help with ringing in the ears.

ALSO, beware of people telling you to take piracetam and choline. There is substantial evidence that an overexpression of acetylcholine in ones' brain can result in depressive symptoms. It sounds like you've already figured that out yourself.

One thing you might want to look into is a combination of acetylcarnetine and alpha lipoic acid (R-lipoic-acid) the combination has been studied in application to psychological fatigue and cognitive deficiency with success. I've personally found it helpful.

Edited by Orajel, 09 April 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Junk Master]

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. DON'T look for a magic supplement to cure depression. Get help from doctors and mental health professionals. That doesn't mean you should accept advice blindly, study, and educate yourself.

A simple suggestion would be to start each day with a gratitude list. If you do that for six weeks and monitor your mood, you will see an improvement. Meditation is also a fantastic suggestion.

Don't fall into the shotgun, magic supplement trap. You'll just waste a lot of money and time.

[Now]

Do you exercise? I think that physical exercise is the 'miracle therapy' for depression, but I also know that it is very difficult to begin with when you don't have motivation and energy. Just try to start slow without expectations. Choose an activity (walking, running, skipping rope etc.) and start with 15-30 minutes/day. The benefit of exercise is that you will be rewarded (increase dopamine, glutamate, norepinephrine, serotonin and endorphins) almost immediately.

Edited by Now, 09 April 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

DLPA usually boosts the effectiveness selegiline has for treating depression.

[gamesguru]

You shouldn't be breathing out of a tiny hole at night. You should also get some exercise, in case you are in a habit of being sedative.

[chroncile]

Raise your Consciousness Spiritually and Happiness will come much more easier. This can be done through simply looking at yourself and working on yourself. Taking responsibility and owning that you created your reality. Then there are techniques to help such as meditation, practice unconditional love, contemplation, surrounding yourself with higher energy. Everyone wants to take the magic pill. Make the right choices and do postive things and You will become much more happy. Inner Joy exists no matter what the condition of the Brain

That right there!


In addition to that, ask your doctor about getting blood work done. You could have low testosterone or DHEA levels, or have a vitamin deficiency. Bloodwork is wonderful because it takes the guesswork out of things. Its a shame you didn't respond to wellbutrin, that sounds like the perfect med for you. But there are other good options. Look into rhodiola or sulbutiamine, it sounds like you need something stimulating. But the fact that you said you dont have any goals in life indicates you need a lifestyle overhaul. No pill is going to fix that. Good thoughts will follow good actions, its seldom the other way around.

Edit: If you're young (under 35) they will rarely test your hormone levels unless you specifically request it
Also, vinpocetine can help with ringing in the ears.

ALSO, beware of people telling you to take piracetam and choline. There is substantial evidence that an overexpression of acetylcholine in ones' brain can result in depressive symptoms. It sounds like you've already figured that out yourself.

One thing you might want to look into is a combination of acetylcarnetine and alpha lipoic acid (R-lipoic-acid) the combination has been studied in application to psychological fatigue and cognitive deficiency with success. I've personally found it helpful.

I did respond to Wellbutrin, but only somewhat. It helped increase my motivation, my energy levels. It also somewhat helped with my inability to laugh. Also, I only took it for 4 weeks so I didn't really give it much time to take full effect. Maybe I should try it again, but this time stay on 150 mg for more than 4 weeks.

Also, I'm beginning to think that my hormones are imbalanced because mostly all of my symptoms started or got significantly worse at the start of my puberty. And the fact that my sex drive is dead at the age of 18 further reinforces that hypothesis.

Can you please tell me what I should request for when I'm getting my blood work? Anything specific? Or should I just ask for all my hormones, vitamins and minerals to be tested?

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. DON'T look for a magic supplement to cure depression. Get help from doctors and mental health professionals. That doesn't mean you should accept advice blindly, study, and educate yourself.

A simple suggestion would be to start each day with a gratitude list. If you do that for six weeks and monitor your mood, you will see an improvement. Meditation is also a fantastic suggestion.

Don't fall into the shotgun, magic supplement trap. You'll just waste a lot of money and time.

I am getting help from doctors and mental health professionals, but I'm also looking for advice elsewhere. I'm obviously not looking for anything to cure my depression, I'm looking for something to help me cure it. I have a major problem with motivation and I'm just looking for something to help me with that part as I'm sure my motivation deficit stems from a lack of motivational neurotransmitters. I've tested this hypothesis before where I would force myself to do something that would be rewarding, like exercising, or working hard on a project, or even just playing games. None of the aforementioned activities stimulated my brain. The state of my brain before doing those activities and after was exactly the same. Nothing changed. I didn't feel anything from doing them.

Do you exercise? I think that physical exercise is the 'miracle therapy' for depression, but I also know that it is very difficult to begin with when you don't have motivation and energy. Just try to start slow without expectations. Choose an activity (walking, running, skipping rope etc.) and start with 15-30 minutes/day. The benefit of exercise is that you will be rewarded (increase dopamine, glutamate, norepinephrine, serotonin and endorphins) almost immediately.

Actually, I used to exercise about 8 months ago where I would go to my 1 hour and 30 minute taekwondo classes. I used to go 2-3 times a week. Eventually, my depression got worse and I could not get myself to go outside anymore. Also, I don't get any reward from exercise. I never feel any different before exercising and after.

[chroncile]

I went to the gym today and got 25 minutes worth of cardio on the treadmill done. I did interval training for the first 15 minutes where I would alternate between running and walking. I would walk for 2 minutes then run for 2 minutes and I kept cycling that until I was about 15 minutes in where I decided to take a short break. I walked around for a while then hopped back on the treadmill where I walked at about a speed of 3.5 (not sure what the units where) and an inclination of 10 degrees.

After I was done, I had a headache, but no rewarding feeling.

I'm really beginning to think I do have a hormonal imbalance and I looked up the symptoms of hypogonadism and I matched 24 of the 33 described symptoms on Wikipedia. Also, my hips are very wide for a male even though I'm skinny. It's all bone and not fat. If I try to push my hips in, all I feel is bone. My dad also has wide hips, but his muscles are well developed.

I'm really hoping the blood work will show a hormonal imbalance so I can know what the cause behind my symptoms is.

[chroncile]

I finally got my blood test results back and I need help making sense of them:

Creatine Kinase (CK): 72 U/L (Reference range: 40 - 280)
Testosterone: 13.3 nmol/L (Reference range: 8.4 - 28.7)
Testosterone-Free: 22.8 pmol/L (Reference range: 21.0 - 103.0)
Thyrotropin (Sensitive TSH): 1.32 mIU/L (Reference range: 0.35 - 5.00)
Ferritin: 77 ug/L (Reference: 22 - 322)
Total Prolactin: 8 ug/L (Reference: 2 - 18)

I did a search for free testosterone and found this article:

' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://dspace.ubvu.vu.nl/bitstream/handle/1871/37904/254695.pdf?sequence=1']
Conclusions Free testosterone levels below 170 pmol/l are associated with depressive symptoms, while free testosterone levels
below 220 pmol/l (lowest quintile of our population) predict the
onset of depressive symptoms.

→ source (external link)

This study was done on men aged >= 65 years. I don't understand. I thought old men had lower testosterone levels so then why is my reference range only 21.0 - 103.0?

This site says my free testosterone is 0.023 nmol/L. I'm only 18 (soon to be 19 in 2 months) years old so shouldn't my testosterone levels be at one of the highest points in my life? Age 25-34 males have free testosterone levels of 0.428 nmol/L.

My doctor said everything looks fine, but my testosterone levels obviously aren't. What should I do? Are there any supplements I can take to increase my testosterone?

[Sir Chugalot]

Personally i think that's low for your age, I've gone through free periods myself whereby I've guessed it's low (sex drive no existent etc) then all of a sudden it's like the levels shoot up, so it's worth being careful.

Even simple things like a state of mind can affect levels, if all of a sudden you think you're a winner *boom* up go the levels.

Weights at the gym are supposed to help raise T, so is a supplement called Maca, this is allegedly an adaptogen so should help balance any imbalances, it's worth reading up on at least.

It might be worth seeing a specialist in endocrinology.

Best of luck.

[chroncile]

I think Maca did in fact raise my testosterone levels a bit because I have somewhat more facial hair now, though it's still a couple of hairs or two at most. I only took 500 mg of Maca though, maybe I should increase it. Though I only found one study that said it increased testosterone, but the study did not focus on maca alone, it focused on a combination of maca and velvet deer antler powder.

I'm also taking Panax Ginseng which is suppose to increase testosterone according to the studies I've read.

Is it worth seeing an endocrinologist. Wouldn't they just put me on hormone therapy?

[sparkk51]

I really believe that SSRIs are the best at treating depression. I've been taking effexor for nearly half a year so far and my mood and "rationale on life" is so insanely consistent. I too have been depressed since puberty and nothing ever really worked, for the long term, until I started Effexor.

[Godot]

Wait, do I understand this correctly - you have lost hearing in one ear, without apparent cause?

If so, you need a neurologist. Could be a tumor.

[chroncile]

Wait, do I understand this correctly - you have lost hearing in one ear, without apparent cause?

If so, you need a neurologist. Could be a tumor.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already gotten an MRI scan and the result was normal.

One thing that really bothers me about my hearing loss is this article:

Nerve growth factor (NGF) is the first and best characterised member of a family of neurotrophic factor. NGF is produced by numerous cells and it is present in physiologically relevant amounts in the bloodstream. It is known to promote the survival of peripheral sensory neurons and can be potentially useful as a therapeutic agent in neuronal system. On the both these observations we based our hypothesis that low circulating NGF might lead to sensorineural hearing loss (SNHL). To address this question we measured the levels of NGF in the bloodstream of patients affected by SNHL. The results showed that the amount of circulating NGF in these patients is significantly lower compared to levels found in patients not affected by this deficit. The results of the present study demonstrated that NGF might be a useful candidate for preventing the damage and promoting recovery or degeneration of the auditory pathways in humans.

→ source (external link)

Would a low amount of NGF cause depression?

Anyway, right now I want to fix my free testosterone levels. They are just too low for someone my age. What options do I have, other than hormone therapy?

Edited by chroncile, 11 August 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

My doctor said everything looks fine, but my testosterone levels obviously aren't. What should I do? Are there any supplements I can take to increase my testosterone?

There are a lot of bad doctors out there. I would go get a second opinion. Could be something wrong with your pituitary not communicating with your testicles telling them to produce Testosterone. Testosterone Gel will make you feel great but will reduce your fertility to zero. From what i've seen, Clomid, a prescription drug, is a better option for these problems. See http://en.wikipedia....le_hypogonadism. Obviously, before taking any new prescription drugs you should get it prescribed by your doctor after getting any necessary tests he orders to figure out if it's the right medication for you.

[Sir Chugalot]

I don't know what an Endo would suggest, but i'm pretty sure they'd offer more support. I'm inclined to agree with abelard, it's probably worth getting a second opinion from a regular doctor, telling him about your concerns and seeing if you can get to see an Endo.

[hippocampus]

Try taking 1-2 tsp turmeric with little black pepper in coconut/olive oil for a week.

[chroncile]

My doctor said everything looks fine, but my testosterone levels obviously aren't. What should I do? Are there any supplements I can take to increase my testosterone?

There are a lot of bad doctors out there. I would go get a second opinion. Could be something wrong with your pituitary not communicating with your testicles telling them to produce Testosterone. Testosterone Gel will make you feel great but will reduce your fertility to zero. From what i've seen, Clomid, a prescription drug, is a better option for these problems. See http://en.wikipedia....le_hypogonadism. Obviously, before taking any new prescription drugs you should get it prescribed by your doctor after getting any necessary tests he orders to figure out if it's the right medication for you.

Yeah, you're right. It could be something wrong with my pituitary not communicating with my testicles, but my doctor did not test for those hormones. He was very hesitant at testing just my testosterone levels because he said there's no way low testosterone could cause depression. He should have tested for LH, FSH, SHBG and estrogen.

Try taking 1-2 tsp turmeric with little black pepper in coconut/olive oil for a week.

I actually already tried this before. I used to eat lots of chicken marinated in black pepper, turmeric and other spices. It was usually cooked with olive oil. I also ate coconut powder in the morning with a cheese and honey sandwich.

What does this combo do anyway? Because I felt the same when I was eating the aforementioned foods.

[hippocampus]

It's antidepressant, at least for some people.

[Psionic]

recently I discovered that a lot of people suffering fatigue/depressin also have parasites.. I will go for removal these first to make sure, fasting can help too. But dont rely only on blood tests, doctors rarely discover these..