13 replies to this topic

[rwac]

"self-control is a strenuous act"

In one study, college students divided into three groups. One group had to give a speech supporting raising tuition at their college. A second group chose between a speech for or against tuition hikes. A third group proceeded directly to the second stage – those devious, unsolvable puzzles. This time, the no-speech group and the group that gave the speech with which they likely disagreed both lasted about twice as long as the people who got to choose what they spoke about. The results suggested it wasn’t just restraint in the face of desire that could deplete your ego, but any choice at all. The subjects who didn’t have to choose a topic were able to allow their volition to take a break, and their ego energy reserves remained intact.

Another study had participants attempt to show and feel no emotion while watching video of either stand-up comedy or an actor pretending to die from cancer. They then tried to solve word puzzles along with people who watched the same videos with the freedom to feel whatever they wished. This time, the people who exerted emotional restraint subsequently solved fewer puzzles than those who let their feelings flow.

The current understanding of this is that all brain functions require fuel, but the executive functions seem to require the most. Or, if you prefer, the executive branch of the mind has the most expensive operating costs. Studies show that when low on glucose, those executive functions suffer, and the result is a state of mind called ego depletion. That mental state harkens back to the way Freud and his contemporaries saw the psyche, as a battle between dumb primal desires and the contemplative self. The early psychologists would have said when your ego is weak, your id runs amok. We now know it may just be your prefrontal cortex dealing with a lack of glucose.

Remember, no matter what the self-help books say, the research suggests that willpower isn’t a skill. If it was, there would be some consistency from one task to the next. Instead, every time you exert control over the giant system that is you, that control gets weaker. If you hold back laughter in a church or classroom, every subsequent silly notion is that much funnier until you run the risk of bursting into snorts.

http://youarenotsosm.../ego-depletion/

[gizmobrain]

This reminds me of all those times where I struggled to explain my ADD-like symptoms, and was told that I just needed to have more motivation. Gee, thanks! You know, I think I'll go around telling depressed people that they just need to be happier, or choking people that they just need to breathe!

It would take me 12 cups of coffee to make it through an 8 hour/day desk job, and I still would struggled to keep from falling asleep at my desk. When I would go home, I would want to watch tv and sleep until the next day. It took so much work to "will" my brain into keeping its attention that I was exhausted from being bored.

When I'm not on any kind of suppliments/medication, most daily tasks take a monumental amount of "willpower" to do. I'm working twice as hard as the guy next to me to get through the same amount of work, since half of my brainpower is going towards "getting myself motivated" and keeping myself focused. Therefore I burn out before those around me, and it makes me look lazy and unmotivated.

I could go on and on with anecdotes and even some metaphores... but I've got to get some work done

Edited by zrbarnes, 04 May 2012 - 10:52 PM.

[The Immortalist]

Can you train your brain to have more restraint for increasingly longer periods?

[rwac]

Can you train your brain to have more restraint for increasingly longer periods?

I think the entire point the article is trying to make is that you cannot train it, it's a matter of fuel, ie glucose.

[jadamgo]

I disagree; it certainly consumes glucose but that can be replenished by consuming carbs, like candy or soda or fruit juice. You can increase the brain's storage of carbs by exercising rigorously and frequently -- just like muscles, the brain incerases its reserves of sugar when you keep up an exercise routine. But even if you put someone on an IV dripping a steady supply of glucose straight into the bloodstream, self control would eventually run out. The point of the article, as I see it, is this:

A.) Self control is limited. You should realize that, and learn how to handle the implications of it.
B.) If you're underfed, glucose might be the limiting factor. Feed your body appropriately, and keep some healthy carbs around whenever you have to do mentally strenuous work. They'll keep you going longer.

What sugar can't fix is the fact that self-control is intrinsically painful. You can, however, develop a tolerance to that pain by practicing. Again, rigorous exercise and also some very demanding forms of meditation can increase mental tolerance. Or you could do a more pleasant meditation practice like jhana, and you would experience less pain from exerting self-control.


P.S. zrbarnes, your post sounds so much like something I'd say, I thought I had posted it until I saw your name by it! Let's go ahead and tell people with GAD to stop worrying and people with OCD to stop obsessing while we're at it, fuck all these disorders! Everyone should just have willpower of steel, willpower solves all problems! :rolleyes:

Edited by jadamgo, 25 May 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[penisbreath]

Does this imply that it's never truly possible to overcome an addiction?

[jadamgo]

Oh no, my father overcame a multi-decade severe addiction to cocaine. When he hit rock bottom, he stayed there for years and looked like he could honestly die at any moment.

After years at rock bottom (and unfortunately, smoking my entire college fund!!!) he completely quit using cocaine and moved to a new city. I live with him now and his fiance, and we just celebrated his 2 year sober anniversary a month ago. Does that mean he doesn't still think about it sometimes? No, he does think about it, and he still has cravings sometimes. And I'd be a liar if I said he was totally emotionally well. But he functions fine and holds down a steady job without difficulties that I can notice.

Also, I've had several family members quit smoking and never go back, most recently my grandmother who 5 years ago laid down the cigs after a 40 year habit and hasn't had one since. She was helped by taking Chantix, which decreased her cravings and made it easier to go from the toughest, last 5 cigs a day to zero cigs a day.

As for me, I've quit cigarettes, marijuana, and tanning. Believe it or not, the suntanning cravings are the worst -- I still have them on beautiful sunny days like today, whereas the cigarette cravings went away after a few months of staying clean, and the marijuana cravings were downright puny. (I'm serious about the tanning thing. Suntanning was more psychologically addictive than any drug I've ever experienced, because it put me in absolute nirvana for hours on end. I'd be out there tanning right now if it didn't cause wrinkles.)

Was willpower how I did it? Hell no. My willpower is terrible. Depending on what temptation I'm resisting, I have 5-15 minutes of willpower before I get so frustrated I want to throw things and shout at people. At that point, I just can't resist the temptation anymore. So instead of hunkering down and repeating "I'm not gonna do it, I'm not gonna do it, I'm not gonna do it" until I lose my damn mind, I assume that I have only 10 minutes of self control, and I need to completely end the temptation before the 10 minutes are up. Usually, I'll go work out because rigorous aerobic exercise takes up my entire attention span and blocks out any distractions. There's a certain kind of tunnel vision when your heart rate gets over 150 and all you notice is how your body feels in the present moment. Cravings fade away, just like any other negative thinking.

My point? Willpower shouldn't be your "Plan A" for improving your behavior. It should be the "emergency backup plan" for when you're having a really strong temptation, and you should use the willpower to enact some other method for counteracting the temptation. If you're just sitting there spending the willpower on directly resisting the temptation, you'd be wasting it.

So yes people can overcome addictions, even severe ones like my dad's cocaine addiction. But they don't use willpower to do it, they change their environment and circumstances to reduce the craving, and they pick up new habits to replace the old ones. My dad moved away and started a new life with new friends. My grandmother took Chantix and bought a bunch of sugarfree candy to chew on. I started exercising and got therapy so I didn't have to self-medicate my emotional problems. That's how you really beat an addiction.

Edited by jadamgo, 26 May 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Raptor87]

I wonder what kind of self- therapy would be available if one would be able to shut down the prefrontal cortex? I mean, if one would go in to a state of low glucosis while doing some hypnosis or perhaps selfhelp or perhaps doing something different. Would this alter things as soon as glycosis kicks in again in the normal state?

What would be available in the brain? what can one do?

[penisbreath]

My point? Willpower shouldn't be your "Plan A" for improving your behavior. It should be the "emergency backup plan" for when you're having a really strong temptation, and you should use the willpower to enact some other method for counteracting the temptation. If you're just sitting there spending the willpower on directly resisting the temptation, you'd be wasting it.

Hmm, well I suffer from OCD, so asking this may be a form of reassurance.

Anyway, I'm currently taking the MAOi, Parnate. I suffer from OCD, and used to binge drink in my late teens to cope with its onset (in addition to social anxiety). After that, I managed to bring my drinking down towards a more moderate, less-destructive level, though I'd still get gregariously drunk at parties, etc.

I have this OCD-related fear that I'll get drunk on Parnate and forget the diet restrictions and die, so I've avoided drinking. But I find that, due to social anxiety, whenever I'm around my trigger (attractive women), I really wanna drink. I've found I have the general willpower not to, but it is, like you say, just a matter of painful, internal resistance. Because my impulse control isn't the greatest either (comorbid ADHD), I won't even have 1-2 drinks, because I'm scared it might set me off, though I think that is a little irrational.

Anyway, if I'm still going to be in social situations around alcohol (albeit somewhat rarely, since I've immigrated and don't know many people here), what is a reasonable substitute behavior? I've taken to smoking socially, which does work ... but I'm not that thrilled about it health-wise, and if I smoke late, it affects my sleep.

[nupi]

Seems quite rational to avoid drinking altogether. I find its easier to not do it at all than to contain it (at many boring parties, anyway)

[penisbreath]

Seems quite rational to avoid drinking altogether. I find its easier to not do it at all than to contain it (at many boring parties, anyway)

But not drinking would involve containing it, which, as per this study, is inherently difficult (at least for someone with a pre-existing urge).

[jadamgo]

I'd say "switch to EMSAM and you won't have to worry about the dietary restriction" but you'd probably still worry about it, given that the worry is already not rational.

What's your history with psychotherapy? Social Anxiety can be fully cured, and OCD and ADHD can be managed. If you have any ongoing social anxiety symptoms, whether you're drinking to counter them or not, I'd suggest getting it treated.

Individual CBT, ACT, or IPT can all help with social anxiety, but the current gold-standard treatment is CBGT-SA, cognitive-behavioral group therapy for social anxiety. You can expect the SA to be cured within a matter of months. (Though it wouldn't do anything for the OCD and ADHD. That would still require individual treatment, behavior modification for the ADHD and exposure-with-response-prevention for the OCD.)

[7YearsStrong]

The mind is limitless. Get out of the box.

http://en.wikipedia....cial_relativity

[Raptor87]

What does EGO depletion refer to? I mean the term is both used in a spiritual and psychological sense but still meaning different things!