303 replies to this topic

[hav]

Just got a chance to hunt this down. Here's the hydroxolated fullerene liver cell study:

Cytotoxic Effects of Hydroxylated Fullerenes in Three Types of Liver Cells

It seems to find toxicity only when specific large numbers (between 6 and 12) of OH are hooked up with C60:

In the present study, we evaluated the cytotoxic effects of fullerene C60 and various hydroxylated C60 derivatives, C60(OH)2, C60(OH)6–12, C60(OH)12 and C60(OH)36, with three different types of liver cells, dRLh-84, HepG2 and primary cultured rat hepatocytes. C60, C60(OH)2 and C60(OH)36 exhibited little or no cytotoxicity in all of the cell types, while C60(OH)6–12 and C60(OH)12 induced cytotoxic effects

... but they didn't look at any between 22 and 26. Thought it was odd, however, that they found C60(OH)36 to be non-toxic. I would have thought something with that many potential free OH's would be enough to unclog a drain. Maybe their cell samples were sodium free.

Howard

[seescaper]

"Pristine" is jargon that's common in the c60 community. It just means unsubstituted. "Substituted" means that another atom or group of atoms is bonded to the c60 molecule. The word "substituted" is really a misnomer, but it's a holdover from the rest of organic chemistry where carbon compounds always have hydrogens attached to them, at least somewhere on the molecule. Many of the reactions of organic chemistry involve substituting something else for one of the hydrogens. They're called substitution reactions, and the thing that gets attached (substituted) is called a "substituent". C60, as it happens, doesn't have any hydrogen atoms. It's pure carbon. Graphite and diamond are other forms of pure carbon. Charcoal or coal is yet another, having a mixture of the types of bonding seen in graphite and diamond.

The c60 that we buy from various suppliers is pure "pristine" c60 (mostly pure, anyway...) that shouldn't have anything attached to it. When we mix it with olive oil, it doesn't just dissolve, it reacts with the olive oil, forming a new compound. The sort of reactions that occur between olive oil and c60 are called "addition" reactions, and the thing that gets added to the c60, in this case the hydrocarbon tail of a fatty acid, is called an "adduct". I suspect that the most common product is a c60 with two fatty acids attached, which we would call a "bis-adduct". (other counts would be mono-, tris-, and tetrakis-)

The solubility of pristine c60 in olive oil is low; far less than the 0.8-0.9mg/ml of total c60 content that we get with c60-oo. Since it reacts with the olive oil, the amount of pristine c60 in the final product is likely to be miniscule. One reason that we are unlikely to be affecting nucleic acids is that there are other things attached to our c60, which would prevent them from getting close to the DNA. Another reason, noted by James above, is that c60 and its adducts are hydrophobic, and localize in membranes and fat depots, while nucleic acids are hydrophilic and are only found in aqueous environments.

For what it's worth, 2012 is not the first year that humans started eating c60. We've been exposed to c60 ever since we discovered fire, since c60 is a small constituent of soot. If you barbecue a piece of meat, which contains triglycerides with the same oleic acid units that are found (in higher percentages) in olive oil, you are likely to get a very tiny amount of a c60-fatty acid adduct. You'll also get a lot of other junk that you don't want. Cigarette smoking is a similar situation- mostly junk that harms you, but you're also inhaling a tiny amount of c60. Just not enough to make up for the rest of the smoke.

I would also wonder whether, since the c60 structure is roughly spherical, like a cage, whether other smaller atoms or molecules can in some way come to be within the confines of the cage, either during the formation of the c60 or subsequently by some type of dissolving. Even H20. If so, would the presence of such a molecular entity change the properties of the c60? Could small substances move freely into and out of the cage, via quantum processes? I haven't seen this topic discussed.

[game6]

At Turnbuckle's suggestions, I am posting my experience with C60 in this thread as well.

 

I had read with interest the beneficial effects that people were getting with C60oo, and was especially interested in the increased stamina at the gym.  So, I made up a batch using the 99.95% stuff from SES.  I ground it using a mortar and pestle, and then mixed it in approximately 1.2 liter of Kirkland Signature Organic Extra Virgin OO, which is supposed to be very high quality.  I use that OO all the time and in a lot of stuff, and I've never experienced a negative reaction.  Anyway, the mixture turned dark red within a day or two, but some sediment remained in the bottom.  I added another .3 of OO and shook daily for a couple more weeks.  There was still a little sediment in the bottom after all of that, so I filtered that out with a coffee filter.  

 

I started using 1.5/2 mg per day.  About the same time I started taking it, I began having some brain fog.  I didn't really connect it to the C60, because I've struggled with brain fog off and on over most of my life.  After a couple of weeks taking a daily dose, I took approximately 30mg at once, with the idea that I would begin dosing every two weeks.  The brain fog increased exponentially, along with a constant dull headache that I just couldn't get to go away.  It was awful.  Made me basically useless at work.  Even then, I didn't necessarily connect it with the C60, because I had not read about this happening to anybody else.

 

The headache and brain fog dissipated about two weeks after taking the large dose.  At this point, I was beginning to suspect the C60, but I wanted to be sure, so I waited a couple more weeks and then took a smaller dose of about 6mg.  The brain fog and headache came back, but this time only stayed for about 3 days (which perhaps makes sense given the smaller dose).

 

I wonder if this strange interaction is in some way related to my methylation defects (I'm compound hetero for MTHFR) or the fact that I'm APOE 3/4.

[MarianVB]

I have just put this in a separate post, but also want to put it here.

 

I have had a very bad response to a single dose of 1.5mg of C60. Fatigue, brainfog/depersonalisation, dizziness, loss of emotions, weird headaches, stomachache, memory issues, etcetera. This is 5 days ago and did not get better yet, maybe worse.  

 

Complicating factor in my case was:

- In october 2014 I was floxed. I too had a bad response to a fluoroquinole antibiotic (ciprofloxacin). I developped fear, psychosis and brain fog. I only recently started to feel a little better, but didn't fully recover yet. C60 immediately brought back cipro symptoms, especially brain fog, much worse than before. I recognize the link with sun exposure as well...my symptoms get worse when I go outdoors.  

- I was treated with antipsychotics (haloperidol) after my cipro reaction. I responded badly to them. While using C60 I still used a small dose of 0.5mg of haloperidol. This might have given a bad interaction as well.

- It could be that I have a genetic methylation problem as well, there are more people in my family with bad responses to meds. We seem to be sensitive to medication side effects.

 

I guess people should take care when using an experimental substance like C60! For me - never again! 

Edited by MarianVB, 08 May 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Ark]

Interesting thread, I'd also like to hear about experiences with other fullerenes Longecity members have used, positive or negative. Thanks!

[Shaved APE]

I've had a couple of 2 week trials with C60 Evoo, and on both occasions suffered dizzy spells.

[dustovshio]

I ordered from vaughter I have taken it off and on for over 6 months. One of the most noteable side effects has been numbness in right side of body and head. I took about 3 mg 1 week ago and the right side of my body ia still slightly numb. It happened before and after discontinuing I eventually went back to normal after a couple weeks. I am also taking vitamin b12, b complex, biotin, alpha lipoic acid, vitamin c, l carnitine, magnesium.

[cuprous]

I've had a couple of 2 week trials with C60 Evoo, and on both occasions suffered dizzy spells.

 

Can you describe further?  There was a thread with some reports about people feeling bouts of vertigo-like sensations when starting c60.  I think I experienced some of that too when I first started.  If I recall correctly there was also correlation with co-supplementation of NAC (which I do).  Possible anti-oxidant overload.

[Wilberforce]

Last few days (after a month or so at 5-10mg/week) I've had a resurgence of arthritic type pain between the shoulder blades, which I haven't had for a couple of years.  No other joint pain.  I don't know if this pure coincidence.

[Major Legend]

hmhmhm I'm thinking of holding back my c60 experiment, too bad I spent a couple of hundred to get everything needed to make my own...which sucks as its a lot of money haha.

 

The negative experiences here sound like drug poisoning in general. I am aware this thread maybe aggregating all the bad experiences, but the bad experiences like kidney pain is a seriously bad reaction, and several people having the exact side effects suggests to me that it is probably not placebo. Also a kidney function test would not reveal micro lesions or other sorts of damage c60 may be causing even on a small scale. Our of 100 people if 3 people had kidney pains, thats a pretty big number, either these people have confounding factors or they are experiencing something early that will ultimately hit everyone else.

 

The dizziness I am willing to go for an over anti oxidant hypothesis, besides lots of drugs cause brain fog, headaches and dizziness anyways, sometimes it goes away, sometimes it doesn't, this side effect is totally dependent on the person.

 

Anyone wanna follow with positive experiences? Looking at the rat studies I don't see why it would cause kidney pain - I think the study needs to be peer reviewed.

 

If some people are getting good results with it and others not so much, perhaps there is a genetic factor at work? Whatever it is the actions of c60 looks to be far more complicated than the primitive drugs are used too, it could be causing side effects via a really weird pathway like certain bacteria being wiped out etc, immune system changes...

 

I would think taking anti oxidants with c60 together would be over kill, so I am wondering if people getting the side effects are doing that, if so then we may be able to confirm the antioxidant hypothesis more - bearing in mind of course the rats didn't take anything else in the study apart from the on which also took a toxin.

Edited by Major Legend, 18 August 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

The negative experiences here sound like drug poisoning in general. 

 

In the C60 poll, 77% report positive results and 2% negative. That's on the high side for any supplement or drug, and the negative results seem low, even for a placebo. 

[Major Legend]

 

 

The negative experiences here sound like drug poisoning in general. 

 

In the C60 poll, 77% report positive results and 2% negative. That's on the high side for any supplement or drug, and the negative results seem low, even for a placebo. 

 

 

Thanks doesn't seem so bad now.

[Kalliste]

Yeah I've taken it for a year. Drank most of a 50ml bottle one time. Did not feel anything from that.

[Wilberforce]

To follow up. The return of sporadic joint joint pain between the shoulder blades then receded and went. The pain appeared to travel down my back (whilst the joints above went pain free) over a period of months, before disappearing. I don't know if this may have just been muscular pain, or if there could be a theory of c60 on arthritic joints.

Secondly, I seem to increasingly get swelling around the eyes the day after ingestion (before bed). Anyone similar, or thoughts on the topic?

[IP3]

C60 gives me terrible brainfog and headache that resembles tension headache or frontal sinus infection. But here is an issue. I think i have lyme disease (thick bite me few years ago, there was erythrema migrans and ofc doc gave me antibiotics). Now I discover that doxycycline dramatically improves my clarity of thinking.
So, should i take C60 with doxy or not?

Edited by IP3, 08 April 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

C60 gives me terrible brainfog and headache that resembles tension headache or frontal sinus infection. But here is an issue. I think i have lyme disease (thick bite me few years ago, there was erythrema migrans and ofc doc gave me antibiotics). Now I discover that doxycycline dramatically improves my clarity of thinking.
So, should i take C60 with doxy or not?

 

 

Brain fog is associated with Lyme disease, and if you are getting the same effect from C60, I would avoid it. There have been negative interactions reported here, in particular with antibiotics that are capable of damaging mitochondria (ie, fluoroquinolones). As damage to mitochondria from doxycycline is also known, combining doxy with C60 seems like a dangerous idea.

 

In recent years, tetracyclines, such as doxycycline, have become broadly used to control gene expression by virtue of the Tet-on/Tet-off systems. However, the wide range of direct effects of tetracycline use has not been fully appreciated. We show here that these antibiotics induce a mitonuclear protein imbalance through their effects on mitochondrial translation, an effect that likely reflects the evolutionary relationship between mitochondria and proteobacteria. Even at low concentrations, tetracyclines induce mitochondrial proteotoxic stress, leading to changes in nuclear gene expression and altered mitochondrial dynamics and function in commonly used cell types, as well as worms, flies, mice, and plants.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25772356

 

[IP3]

Now I feel also iritability, jonit pain <in knees and arms>, muscle pain, some pain in face, sore eyes also iritability and mood swings. I am totally unable to think and solving simple mathematical tasks and what is worst i cannot lern new things.   I took 0,5 ml yesterday evening (24hr ago). 

Last few days on doxy without c60 was like magic for me, now it is very hard for me to write this message and use good tenses.

If c60 act in mitochondria then maybe it act also on bacteria...

I have brain fog even when i used c60 topically, so it also could be allergy.

Edited by IP3, 08 April 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[IP3]

Someone had a theory that c60 causes Ca influx. I think it is posible, because i felt similiar headache and iritation after noopept and piracetam. This could also explain decaresed in subjective feeling of pleasure from alcohol or benzodiazepines.

[MissMaggie]

I don't seem to have much in the way of negative side effects, though I do feel a little sleepy after taking a lot, and if I rub it in my eye (doing a half / half face moisturiser experiment) it makes eye water a lot.... but I have had one interesting "symptom" which I'm wondering if anyone else had experienced. About 4-5 hours after ingesting, I get a heavy feeling in my stomach, not quite like indigestion but I guess that's the closest thing I can compare it to, as if my body is having a hard time digesting the c60oo. This correlates to the extra tiredness, so I'm thinking my body has to work a little harder to digest it compared to regular evoo. Anyone have a similar reaction?

[Wilberforce]

Makes me super tired. But the effects on skin and oxygenation (fitness) are remarkable so I take it at night. I'm pretty certain bone density has increased, although I'm only 49. I'm passing for late 30's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stefan_001]

Makes me super tired. But the effects on skin and oxygenation (fitness) are remarkable so I take it at night. I'm pretty certain bone density has increased, although I'm only 49. I'm passing for late 30's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Just wondering why do you think this?

"I'm pretty certain bone density has increased"

[Empiricus]

My experience to date with c60 indicates to me the importance of olive oil freshness.  

 

PURCHASE HISTORY

May 2014

• Bottle #1 (60ML): refrigerated a few weeks, defrosted 2 or 3 times prior to consumption.

Sept 2015

• Bottle #2A (30ML): never frozen
• Bottle #2B (30ML): frozen immediately
• What I refer to as #2A and #2B were shipped to me as 2 separate bottles.  

C60 TIMELINE

June 2015 (Bottle #1) 

• 0.3 mg on 1 day 
• positive effect on endurance, energy

July-early Sept (Bottle #1)

• 1.5 mg every 14 days
• Not much by way of positive or negative effects

Mid Sept-Oct (Bottle #2A)

• 2.5 mg every 7 days 
• positive effect on endurance, increased energy 
• improved breath-holding times
• need more sleep

Nov-early Dec (Bottle #1) 

• 4.5 mg every 7 days
• soreness in lower back
• breath-holding times don’t improve after dosing
• no improvement in exercise endurance or energy
• need more sleep
• strong nails
• hair is multicolored, shiny and vivid.  

Jan (No c60)

• soreness in back gone by end of month
• health good

Feb-Mid March (Bottle #2B) 

• 1 mg every 7 days
• soreness in lower back returns  
• no positive effects on exercise endurance 
• no additional energy
• nails still strong
• soreness in lower back 
• Beginning of a bad cold or flu that lingers

Late March-early April (Bottle #2B) 

• still sick with cold or flu
• Hoping it kills the flu virus, I take 180 mg of uncooked BHT before bedtime for 6 days. Effects of BHT are mixed: I need less sleep, but twice I wake up with chest pain at night.
• On 7th day—the day after I stopped the BHT--I took 1.5 mg c60 with maybe 5 grams of 2 year-old oleopein (olive leaf extract) and some fresh olive oil.  (Note: For my previous 1 mg dose, I had added  1.5 G of oleopein and fresh olive oil to the c60oo. Since this didn't do anything, I increased the oleopein dose).
• Lower back pain become much worse than before after week-treatment and persists. I experienced fatigue during day even with sleep. The worst of the flu symptoms I had experienced returned with a vengeance.  
• Had kidney tests done. These come back normal.

Mid April-early May (No c60)

• back still aches somewhat, but gradually improving
• flu symptoms diminished but linger.
• nails not as hard as before
• hair no longer has bright colors
• skin doesn't look so good.

OBSERVATIONS

1. Based on my own experience (Bottle 2A vs Bottle 2B), I hesitate to rule out the possibility that freezing c60 caused the adverse effects. However, since nobody else attributes bad effects to freezing, lack of freshness of Bottle 2B on receipt seems the more likely cause of negative reactions after November.  It’s possible (but, I think, unlikely) that I’ve developed an allergy to c60oo and stale olive oil was not cause of adverse effects.  I can’t be 100% sure until I have made my own c60 with fresh olive oil.
2. When I consumed fresh c60 I experience a range of positive effects.
3. Stale c60 = lower back pain
4. Recent consumption of BHT + high dose oleopein with fresh olive oil + stale c60 = worse lower back pain
5. Very small doses of c60 seemed to have large positive effects (June 2015) relative to larger doses (July-Aug 2015). This might be investigated further.  

CONCLUSIONS

1. Throw away stale c60.  
2. It’s not possible to “recharge” stale or questionable c60oo by mixing it with fresher olive oil and oleopein.
3. Avoid c60 if you’ve consumed BHT recently.  
4. Don't purchase pre-made c60 that fails to include the harvest date for the olive oil. Since no supplier appears to meet this criteria, at this time there’s no substitute for doing everything yourself. 

Edited by Empiricus, 09 May 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[IP3]

I have question for those who also suffer from C60 brain-side-effects. Did you ever use benzodiazepines for longer than 3-4 weeks or abuse any other addictive drugs?

[IP3]

Mayby i write something more.

 

Cognitive deficits after c60 are very similiar to PAWS after long term benzodiazepine use. I have sufferdd for BDZ paws for few months, now i noticed big improvement after tianeneptine (few post above i wrote that i fell better after doxycycline, it was a mistake, i was taking simultaneusly doxy (for infection) and tianeptine, western blot for lyme turn out to be negative.))

 

At saturday morning i took my morning tianeptine pil with little drop of c60 (after 2-3 weeks of  fulerene abstinence) and it almost kill my new estabilished mental clarity. I was sleepy whole day and got dizzy spells every time when i was stayng up from bed.

 

Did anyone of you experienced side effects after indigestion of home-made fresh dissolved c60?

[portal1618]

Thanks MarianVB... you are helping confirm a theory i am working on:

 

C60-oo brainfog is related to cytochrome CYP1A2.

 

-Brainfog occurs in cases where people who already have an anormal reaction to CYP1A2 ligands (MarianVB's reaction to cipro and haloperidol)

- and/or in people already taking cytochrome inducers/substrates/inhibitors (melatonin, cumin,tumeric,modafinil, tobacco, brocoli,cauliflower,,etc,etc, etc)

 

Can anyone who has had brainfog let me know if you:

a) have had brainfog when taking any  CYP1A2 ligands (see this list) or

b) if you where taking any of these while taking C60-oo

 

Thanks.

 

 

I have just put this in a separate post, but also want to put it here.

 

I have had a very bad response to a single dose of 1.5mg of C60. Fatigue, brainfog/depersonalisation, dizziness, loss of emotions, weird headaches, stomachache, memory issues, etcetera. This is 5 days ago and did not get better yet, maybe worse.  

 

Complicating factor in my case was:

- In october 2014 I was floxed. I too had a bad response to a fluoroquinole antibiotic (ciprofloxacin). I developped fear, psychosis and brain fog. I only recently started to feel a little better, but didn't fully recover yet. C60 immediately brought back cipro symptoms, especially brain fog, much worse than before. I recognize the link with sun exposure as well...my symptoms get worse when I go outdoors.  

- I was treated with antipsychotics (haloperidol) after my cipro reaction. I responded badly to them. While using C60 I still used a small dose of 0.5mg of haloperidol. This might have given a bad interaction as well.

- It could be that I have a genetic methylation problem as well, there are more people in my family with bad responses to meds. We seem to be sensitive to medication side effects.

 

I guess people should take care when using an experimental substance like C60! For me - never again! 

 

[jeanlzt11]

I asked this question somewhere else but I'm new to this site so not sure where it posted.  I've had painful arthritis and swelling in the last joint of one finger for over a year.  The tip of my finger was bending slightly downward in deformity.  I went to an orthopedist who said all they could do is fuse the painful joint.  I started taking C60 from Vaughtner Wellness 1/3 tsp/day and rubbing it on the joint.  In about a week the joint stopped hurting so much and now after a month I don't really notice any pain, only slightly if I squeeze it hard.  There is less swelling and the finger tip is not as bent.  I don't even notice it anymore where as before I was always protecting it from hitting anything. I don't have arthritis in another joint to compare so I wondered if the C60 helped it or if it was just co-incidence. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Turnbuckle]

I asked this question somewhere else but I'm new to this site so not sure where it posted.  I've had painful arthritis and swelling in the last joint of one finger for over a year.  The tip of my finger was bending slightly downward in deformity.  I went to an orthopedist who said all they could do is fuse the painful joint.  I started taking C60 from Vaughtner Wellness 1/3 tsp/day and rubbing it on the joint.  In about a week the joint stopped hurting so much and now after a month I don't really notice any pain, only slightly if I squeeze it hard.  There is less swelling and the finger tip is not as bent.  I don't even notice it anymore where as before I was always protecting it from hitting anything. I don't have arthritis in another joint to compare so I wondered if the C60 helped it or if it was just co-incidence. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

 

There are presently ten medical papers on this--

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....m=C60 arthritis

[sensei]

Yeah I've taken it for a year. Drank most of a 50ml bottle one time. Did not feel anything from that.

 

 

I've taken up to 135 mg in 1 day more than once. 

[jeanlzt11]

 

I asked this question somewhere else but I'm new to this site so not sure where it posted.  I've had painful arthritis and swelling in the last joint of one finger for over a year.  The tip of my finger was bending slightly downward in deformity.  I went to an orthopedist who said all they could do is fuse the painful joint.  I started taking C60 from Vaughtner Wellness 1/3 tsp/day and rubbing it on the joint.  In about a week the joint stopped hurting so much and now after a month I don't really notice any pain, only slightly if I squeeze it hard.  There is less swelling and the finger tip is not as bent.  I don't even notice it anymore where as before I was always protecting it from hitting anything. I don't have arthritis in another joint to compare so I wondered if the C60 helped it or if it was just co-incidence. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

 

There are presently ten medical papers on this--

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....m=C60 arthritis

 

Thank you, the reports were a little hard for me to understand but I got the gist of it that it helps inflammation.  They keep mentioning water soluble C60 so I hope it doesn't make a difference.  Just to be able to type again using that finger is amazing. 

 

Edited by jeanlzt, 28 May 2016 - 05:09 AM.

[IP3]

Yesterday, after week on tianeptine and trazodone (at the evening) i took the dose of c60 as in previous week. I fell slight pain in forhed, and slight somnolence that diminished after few hours.
Hovever usualy more severe symptoms occur when i am dosing more frequently than once a week i was quite suprised.