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Ecstacy or MDMA, cure for social phobia, shyness OCD?

mdma+phobia+shyness=cure?

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#61 protoject

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:15 PM

This is an interesting topic that brings back vivid memories. I would like to add my own experience. I have done many drugs, but I think the repercussions from MDMA were the worst of all of them, although at the height of the high it seemed to be the most blissful of the many natural or synthetic substances I have ever ingested. If I had taken pure MDMA in a supervised condition in the most favorable circumstances, certainly that would have been better than getting whatever I could get. Even so, when you artificially lift yourself up to such an incredible high, you must come down. The extreme drop is quite harsh.

Without getting in too deep, you not only deal with physical consequences, you can also open yourself up to psychic influences because you may have created tears or holes in your aura, your electromagnetic, energetic protective web or field. This is your filter that protects you from negative external influences. People think they are only dealing with the effects of physical chemicals here, but you cannot separate the physical from the metaphysical. There are physical toxic effects, as well as psychic toxic effects. These things happen folks. I will not vouch for everyone’s experience, since some people can be much more resilient than others, but this is a powerful drug we are dealing with, and this is more likely to happen than not.

I compare the artificial high from MDMA with reaching higher states of consciousness, naturally, such as in a kundalini awakening. The whole awakening cycle can lead to a burnout, where the body’s resources have been used up to climb the heights of the awakening peak. What goes up must come down. Of course, it doesn’t have to be a terrible experience, but what is called the “Dark Night of the Soul” is usually experienced. I liken it to the darkest hour before the dawn of a beautiful new day. This is a natural cycle, and for many, very appropriate because it can provide a profound and valuable growth experience.

I experienced this Dark Night of the Soul at the tail end of my MDMA addiction. I think this was the lowest point of my entire life, and there were many, many low points before and after that event, so the experience had a lot of competition for that slot! I experienced years of depression before that, but the MDMA pushed me to my rock bottom point. Of course, I don’t regret that because I figured out how to put the pieces of myself back together and to rebuild something new. It did take years, though.

Under perfect controlled circumstances, perhaps MDMA could be helpful to achieve a specific purpose, with the support of others, with all the right nutrients and a healthy physical foundation, but I think there are few who are fortunate enough to have all of these elements in place. But, I do understand that some people are in serious need of drastic measures when nothing else has worked to resolve intolerable suffering. Some people may need crazy things to happen to wake them up or heal them. To that, I leave you with the words of a master:

“Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.”
-Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do


My experience was similar but a bit different than yours with MDMA. I don't think the great highs of MDMA ever equalled great lows. Actually, usually I only felt better after the experience, never going downhill from there. I never experienced rebound depressions, Then again I honestly think this was one of the purest batches of mdma around. But the problem is, I unrealistically treated this as a medication that would actually work for me on a day to day basis, while ignoring the potential neurotoxicity and tolerance problems. Eventually I began digging myself into a physical hole. Just constantly trying to get even the base effect of MDMA, taking more and more of it, and even overdosing and causing acute kidney failure. But in reality I was just burning out my neurons and desperately trying to get myself out of a hole that i dug myself deep into. Of course, before I got into the hole I was already in another hole due to mental illness... and i of course used that as my explanation as to why i was doing this to myself. The funny thing is though that I was ignoring how I felt like totally fucked up all the time, just to feel something that slightly resembled what I was looking for. Was all that damage really worth it? Hell no. I wish I had better guidance and influence during this time. Or some more common sense. It's very hard to get out of a drug addiction when there is no medication or person in sight that can help you. But thank god that period of my life is over.

All in all I do think MDMA can be very useful but it needs to be used in a holistic manner. Also I find there is a bit of naivety with all drug usage like this, where you get that "honeymoon effect" and then can't step back and view things how they actually are. It would be great if people could have a better understanding of exactly what was happening to them or the exact purpose they were using the drug for. Of course sometimes this is difficult when being high on a drug is the time that you actually discover some purpose. That's why it would be great if you had some guiding and influencing factors, whether it be a psychiatrist/clinician or a shaman or a friend, but it's very important that they understand your condition so they can work with you to help you. Not only that but they need to have a great understanding of the MDMA experience themselves, and also be in a mature and developed condition , a "grown up" one as you will.

Edited by protoject, 21 October 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#62 evodude

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

Hey even Oprah says its ok:
http://www.oprah.com...Uses-of-Ecstasy

http://www.guardian....brain-new-study

FDA approves MDMA therapy


They dont believe mdma is as damaging as assumed for years.

Edited by evodude, 04 June 2013 - 09:11 PM.


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#63 socialpiranha

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

amphetamine is much safer...it's only good for digging yourself out of a whole if you have a solid plan and only take it for a short time though.

The reason amphetamines, mdma, and cocaine sometimes work well for social anxiety and depression is because dopamine is the chemical which governs social subordination/dominance. density//sensitivity of receptors and release of dopamine in different parts of the brain change according to social standing within a given social framework. This is why you can be totally yourself around some people and can't around others. Stimulants affect this dynamic sometimes for the better sometimes not.

An example of using dopaminergics as a temporary fix toward a semipermanent solution would be to use them to ease the anxiety of a job or date, to increase physical health(cardio/bodybuilding/weight loss) or anything else to at (least semi-)permanently elevate your social status to where you are content with it.
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#64 Raptor87

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:58 PM

amphetamine is much safer...it's only good for digging yourself out of a whole if you have a solid plan and only take it for a short time though.

The reason amphetamines, mdma, and cocaine sometimes work well for social anxiety and depression is because dopamine is the chemical which governs social subordination/dominance. density//sensitivity of receptors and release of dopamine in different parts of the brain change according to social standing within a given social framework. This is why you can be totally yourself around some people and can't around others. Stimulants affect this dynamic sometimes for the better sometimes not.

An example of using dopaminergics as a temporary fix toward a semipermanent solution would be to use them to ease the anxiety of a job or date, to increase physical health(cardio/bodybuilding/weight loss) or anything else to at (least semi-)permanently elevate your social status to where you are content with it.


This is such garbage I don't really know what to say!

Amphetamines for any given sporadic time makes my OCD worse, it leaves me paranoid from my environment and only temporarily fixes my problems leaving me drained afterwards! Ending with me being worse. The discussion isn't amphetamines but MDMA, Ecstacy or perhaps LSD. I don't see amphetamines as a cure for anything else except having the ability to focus on a certain task for longer periods of time. What we are talking about here requires emotional and mental healing which is very hard to do with amp¨s.

#65 socialpiranha

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:00 PM

well your free to express your opinion. Amphetamines are less neurotoxic tho its a proven fact. Just because it makes your ocd worse doesn't mean its not safer or more therapeutic. mdma even used infrequently does serious damage to the brain thats also a proven fact, and the damage it does creates the opposite of acute effects. anyone who condones using it therapeutically for sa/ocd hasnt suffered the effects of long term use. with the exception of some rechems which havent been thoroughly studied amphetamines are the closest thing i have found to mdma for social motivation and control of thoughts. Yes it can worsen ocd but so can mdma your obviously still in the honeymoon phase if you dont know that.

Direct stimulation of oxytocin release(via serotonin release and subsequent 5ht1a agonism) is the main difference between the two which is why mdma can give you that total brain silence(lack of obsessive or anxious thoughts) amphetamines indirectly increase the release of oxytocin but only because they produce a state conducive to naturally releasing oxytocin. So it's not as effective in the short term but has much more therapeutic potential because of its relative lack of neurotoxicity. SA/ocd are not things which can be fixed by a few doses of any drug so anything highly neurotoxic is useless.

your question is does mdma have therapeutic potential for treating SA/OCD, my opinion is no....but amphetamines can if used properly. Mdma may have therapeutic potential for certain issues , but they are usually in regards to existential issues similarly to the studies being done with lsd and psilocybin.

#66 Raptor87

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:35 AM

well your free to express your opinion. Amphetamines are less neurotoxic tho its a proven fact. Just because it makes your ocd worse doesn't mean its not safer or more therapeutic. mdma even used infrequently does serious damage to the brain thats also a proven fact, and the damage it does creates the opposite of acute effects. anyone who condones using it therapeutically for sa/ocd hasnt suffered the effects of long term use. with the exception of some rechems which havent been thoroughly studied amphetamines are the closest thing i have found to mdma for social motivation and control of thoughts. Yes it can worsen ocd but so can mdma your obviously still in the honeymoon phase if you dont know that.

Direct stimulation of oxytocin release(via serotonin release and subsequent 5ht1a agonism) is the main difference between the two which is why mdma can give you that total brain silence(lack of obsessive or anxious thoughts) amphetamines indirectly increase the release of oxytocin but only because they produce a state conducive to naturally releasing oxytocin. So it's not as effective in the short term but has much more therapeutic potential because of its relative lack of neurotoxicity. SA/ocd are not things which can be fixed by a few doses of any drug so anything highly neurotoxic is useless.

your question is does mdma have therapeutic potential for treating SA/OCD, my opinion is no....but amphetamines can if used properly. Mdma may have therapeutic potential for certain issues , but they are usually in regards to existential issues similarly to the studies being done with lsd and psilocybin.


Yes, we are all free to express ourselves. Although from what I've heard and read is that sometimes a single dose of psychedelics may cure social problems for long term. What the reasons behind the mechanism is is hard for anyone to determine and the effects are probably individual. But I do think that there is enough anecdotal evidence suggesting that with guided professional help, there is a big potential for it.

#67 Adamzski

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:48 AM

Maybe a small amount of MDMA and getting a socially paranoid person to go into a situation that usually freaks them out would be a good thing. MDMA is not so habit forming so I could see it being used in NLP and counselling.

#68 nowayout

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

What about the research in the 90s already indicating ecstacy damaged serotonergic neurons?

I don't doubt that you can cure all kinds of conditions by killing neurons. In fact, there is a lot of research on targeted killing of brain areas for therapeutic benefit - it is not all lobotomy anymore.

So the long term effects of psychedelics might well be via targeted destruction of brain structures. That may be a good thing, but only one day when we know what the hell we are doing.

#69 socialpiranha

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

What about the research in the 90s already indicating ecstacy damaged serotonergic neurons?

I don't doubt that you can cure all kinds of conditions by killing neurons. In fact, there is a lot of research on targeted killing of brain areas for therapeutic benefit - it is not all lobotomy anymore.

So the long term effects of psychedelics might well be via targeted destruction of brain structures. That may be a good thing, but only one day when we know what the hell we are doing.



thats true, lots of poisons/toxins have been found to be useful in very specific situations but yeah were decades away from responsible experimentation in that regard.

#70 socialpiranha

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

I don't doubt mdma can obliterate certain long held fears in single doses, but a disorder is made up of thousands of those as well as the biochemical environment which nurtured and maintained them. upsetting the environment might shake one or two loose but the environments still the same a week later(if not worse). The anecdotal evidence just isn't strong enough when it comes to such a toxic drug. I do think we should know a lot more about it by now though, if serious research began years ago maybe we would and that goes for all psychedelic and recreational drugs. I'm not being sarcastic but i really would like to see some of the anecdotal evidence your refering to I have never heard anyone say that mdma has permanently cured their social anxiety. If that was the case i might be slightly more on board.

When i first tried mdma it was the first time i really felt myself around people i didnt know, it was amazing, so i started using it in smaller doses before social events and it just kept working less and less and now i have permanent effects i am still trying to fix. the same happened with opiates and to some extent amphetamines and i've heard ghb is similar. I believe psilocybin, lsd, ibogaine, dmt and even cannabis might be capable of being therapeutic in social anxiety disorder but are much much more likely to make it worse and in my experience all of them have. ibogaine has by far been the closest thing i have tried to something with the potential to rewire the brain so to speak but it is also potentially very dangerous you basically have a 1 in 400 chance of dying with a single administration according to studies. it definitely deserves further research though.

#71 Sunwind

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:00 AM

I abused bk-MDMA for a week to combat my extreme social phobia when I went to university. It worked wonders. Then I crashed, became ill, my anxiety came back worse than ever and I was extremely dysphoric, experiencing extreme un-reality and derealization on a daily basis for about 3 months. I felt like I was going insane and almost schizophrenic. If you do decide to try and self medicate with MDMA, be very careful and use it sparingly. I thought since that bk-MDMA is much less harsh on the serotonergic system that I would be able to use it long term (I read such reports of people doing so online, I don't know how they managed it, but it was simply not possible for me).

when it comes to such a toxic drug


MDMA when taken correctly is about as toxic as water. Please educate yourself, you're spreading misinformation that is only hurting progress when it comes to MDMA.


Edited by Sunwind, 08 June 2013 - 10:04 AM.


#72 socialpiranha

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:11 AM

you tell me to educate myself then post a youtube video haha ....i can't watch it in my country anyway. MDMA is neurotoxic, its a fact, whether it is in humans, is less clear but only because enough studies haven't been done. If a pharmaceutical drug caused the neurotoxicity in animals that mdma does it would never make it to human trials and rightly so.

Neurotoxicity of "ecstasy" and its metabolites in human dopaminergic differentiated SH-SY5Y cells
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23194825

Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA ("Ecstasy")
http://stke.sciencem...i;297/5590/2260

#73 Sunwind

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:11 AM

people like you are the reason why this forum is 5% actual information and 95% garbage.
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#74 brainslugged

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

Good news is that a nitric oxide inhibitor may be helpful in reducing MDMA toxicity. It doesn't fully negate it, but it does help. http://www.lycaeum.o...998_zheng_1.pdf

Methylene Blue is a NOS inhibitor, but it is also a serotonin reuptake inhibitor and MAO-A inhibitor, so it would probably be a poor candidate for this, but there are nitroarginine and other inhibitors




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