41 replies to this topic

[Q did it!]

Its always nice to see how a discussion turns into an argument.

Could we possibly get back on topic and stop with this derailing. Who cares who wrong or whose right it mostly comes down to a difference in options. So just state them and leave it at that.

[Galantamine]

Scienceguy -

Props to you for always taking the high road and never resorting to petty and juvenile name calling. You tend to defend your position in a mature and mild mannered fashion.

Thank you for your contributions and your conduct on the boards.

The amount of disinformation he has presented since he started posting here has been mind blowing. For the first year or so people dismissed him outright as a troll, but now his perseveration has spawned like-minded ignoramuses. He's a pathogenic fungus.

[unregistered_user]

Scienceguy -

Props to you for always taking the high road and never resorting to petty and juvenile name calling. You tend to defend your position in a mature and mild mannered fashion.

Thank you for your contributions and your conduct on the boards.

The amount of disinformation he has presented since he started posting here has been mind blowing. For the first year or so people dismissed him outright as a troll, but now his perseveration has spawned like-minded ignoramuses. He's a pathogenic fungus.

I think the Longecity members generally do a pretty good job of keeping people honest; demanding studies, and proof that substantiate claims made. I am sure Scienceguy hasn't been right about everything he's posted but that shouldn't invite puerile attacks against him.

I always thought you made valuable posts to the boards too, Irish MD. I guess I'm surprised to see someone I regarded as a knowledgable member acting this way.

[Galantamine]

Interestingly enough, about 7-8 years ago on this very forum (well, imminst), I had an epic battle with some troll who argued that piracetam was unsafe, and he listed piracetams "common side effects." Absolute rubbish.

SOUND FAMILIAR, "SCIENCEGUY"?

btw, there is a study underway which is examining huge boluses of keppra in a "brain attack" cocktail. the preliminary data looks great.

Safe safe safe safe safe

[Reformed-Redan]

Interestingly enough, about 7-8 years ago on this very forum (well, imminst), I had an epic battle with some troll who argued that piracetam was unsafe, and he listed piracetams "common side effects." Absolute rubbish.

SOUND FAMILIAR, "SCIENCEGUY"?

btw, there is a study underway which is examining huge boluses of keppra in a "brain attack" cocktail. the preliminary data looks great.

Safe safe safe safe safe

Please post a conclusive study on the detrimental effects of Piracetam.

Scienceguy -

Props to you for always taking the high road and never resorting to petty and juvenile name calling. You tend to defend your position in a mature and mild mannered fashion.

Thank you for your contributions and your conduct on the boards.

The amount of disinformation he has presented since he started posting here has been mind blowing. For the first year or so people dismissed him outright as a troll, but now his perseveration has spawned like-minded ignoramuses. He's a pathogenic fungus.

I don't think a tu quoque would be good here; but, you did suggest in the preworkout stimulant thread that people buy out the product before it is taken off the market. I find that questionable since your nick claims to have a MD. Did you take the Hippocratic oath or are they no longer in fashion these days?

[unregistered_user]

I swore a hypocritical oath, just so everyone knows, so I don't want anyone accusing me in the future of not upholding the ethics of the hippocratic oath.

[formergenius]

Actually ScienceGuy's posts are very coherent and pleasant to read. And the medical "lingo" is not confusing. Besides, people can do a google search and learn something.

Back on topic though:
2 months ago I was looking up research about Levetiracetam and cognition. I listed 6 articles in this post (links to another forum, most studies are in epilepsy though.. at least see this one).
And here's a small study in healthy volunteers, yet not too much details are available if you can't access the full article.

Whilst Levetiracetam may indeed be more tolerable in both healthy and epileptic patients, that's only relative to other AED's. Considering the availability of other, safer, more effective nootropics, there's really little to no reason to take Levetiracetam for nootropic purposes. Moreover, it can make you feel very tired (somnolence is one of the most common side-effects of Levetiracetam).

Regarding my personal experience: I'm very disappointed with Levetiracetam, as I had hoped it would at least recover some of my cognitive function. It only helps me sleep and exerts intermittent anxiolysis, but Melatonin and Kava did that just fine (far better actually) for me without the hindrance of having to remember to take it twice a day. I think I'm going to get an EEG done and then quit this stuff.

Edited by formergenius, 04 August 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

I really dont care about your feud with Irish MD...

I don't have a "feud with Irish MD" - A feud by definition requires both side to fight... wherein I have stated that I am not interested in wasting my valuable free-time fighting with IRISH MD. He can continue to call me all the names he likes... wherein you will note that I have not responded in kind to any of his AD HOMINEM... So like I said, there is no feud.

i'm just pointing out that you to me you seem guilty of pretty much the same thing you are accusing him off.

Whatever you are smoking can I have some please?

Seriously though, IMO in no way am I guilty of what I am accusing him of; and since 999 out of 1000 people reading this thread will come to precisely this same conclusion (wherein, in fact many already have done so if you take note), let's you and I agree to disagree on this particular point OK?

...also, claiming you provide factually accurate information re: safety of a substance is a little misleading when those compounds have little to no data on human safety available.

It is not at all misleading... The information that I have provided them with is factually accurate... and this includes pointing out salient facts like "those compounds have little to no data on human safety available" wherein I absolutely agree with you BTW. Please kindly note that with respect to both NSI-189 and PRL-5-83 everyone is aware of this particular fact, and as such is aware of the risks. In fact within each relevant thread a particular substance's SAFETY is discussed in great detail, wherein you will find me posting things like this :

The problem is that many of those steps are vitally important, such as comprehensive TOXICITY STUDIES... Each and every time I read about an interesting novel new substance reporting stimulation of growth of new brain cells the question springs to mind surrounding what exactly is its potential for stimulating the growth of other undesirable types of cells, such as NEOPLASTIC CELLS and therein potentially leading to manifestation of CANCER(S)... Hence, exclusively confirmation that no direct NEUROTOXICITY exists might not be enough to know for sure whether or not said substance is wholly safe to consume, since CARCINOGENICITY does not necessarily directly corrolate

...telling members to take 1/10th of a dose is a responsible way to address acute effects, but it wont help if said substance can cause permanent changes which take a while to show up.

I agree; and everyone involved knows this.

Consequently, their information level is sufficient that they can make a properly informed decision with regards to whether or not they wish to take said substance, while being fully aware of the associated risks.

[ScienceGuy]

Consider this study (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23876024) done in children with TBI:

"The most common symptoms ranked as severe by treatment subjects were headache, fatigue, drowsiness, and irritability. Although 85% of treated subjects reported fatigue,
only 5% ranked it severe. Mild to moderate headaches were
reported by 55% of treated subjects and mild to moderate
drowsiness or somnolence by 45% of treated subjects."

When I read the literature I sometimes see the words "well tolerated" in reference to levetiracetam, this caught me at off guard at first having done most of my other research in nootropics, who really have little side effects. I believe levetiracetam is well tolerated relative to other ANTIEPILEPTICS--not the kind of well tolerability that we are used to on this forum. In this case the side effects of the drug (fatigue,headache, etc) are much more minor than the condition it treats (seizures), so it makes sense that these side effects are rather mild compared to benefit it may bring to epileptics. Regardless this is a rather murky argument so I have attached a link to a comprehensive review of the drug which clearly depicts a relatively high rate of side effects, though mild for an antiepileptic, would not be something I would want in a nootropic.

https://www.dropbox....dy/LRacetam.pdf

Thanks for the info Telight... I think you make a very good point regards the understanding of the phrase "well tolerated"; and it is interesting to see that comprehensive review of the drug which "clearly depicts a relatively high rate of side effects"

[ScienceGuy]

EDIT: I've deleted this post... too easily read the wrong way and misunderstood

Edited by ScienceGuy, 07 August 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[qemist]

Levetiracetam suppresses neuronal network
dysfunction and reverses synaptic and cognitive
deficits in an Alzheimer’s disease model

[John Hess]

Has anyone in this thread actually tried levetiracetam? It's a great medication, especially for folks with mood problems, as it is a mood stabilizer. Compared to other mood stabilizers Keppra may improve memory and cognition. When taken for this purpose it would be taken at bedtime. I feel like it has been a very helpful medicine. I should be taken with B6 to reduce/prevent irritability, and maybe with choline too.