4 votes
Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:03 AM
Depending on the doses you are using, I think you are going to need a very long wash-out period between doses. The effects relating to efficiency of oxygen utilization show up at rather low dosage, but don't seem to change much with increasing dose. Larger doses just make the effects last longer, and they last for a pretty long time even with low doses. This is based on closely following peoples' reports here, and my own experiences with c60, but isn't formalized. I am very interested in seeing if my crude observations hold up in a more formal test. I think the best way to run this experiment would be to wait as long as you can without using any c60, then start with a very low dose, like a tenth of a milligram, and work your way up. If you are increasing dose, then you don't have to wait very long, and can simply assume that most of the previous dose is still on board.
It would be ideal if you could find someone who was already acclimated to endurance exercise so that there wouldn't be a training effect, but that had never had c60. That way you would know that you are starting from a clean baseline.
0.1 mg? I don't think that's easy to measure, in practice. I'd suggest starting with 0.5 mg/d, and incrementing in 0.5 mg doses, more or less. Otherwise, given the washout period that you quite sensibly recommended between tests, we could undermine the study just by virtue of its length and the associated risk of disruptive events. Nevertheless, I agree that a c60oo-naive individual would be ideal; I'll take whatever decent data I can get.
If your oil is 0.8mg c60/ml, then 0.1 mg is 1/8 of a ml. That could be estimated with a conventional medicine dropper, or measured accurately with an appropriate pipette. Another easy way to do this would be to start with 1 ml of c60oo, add plain olive oil to a total volume of 8 ml, and mix it thoroughly. 1 ml of this solution would contain 0.1 mg c60. As long as you are increasing dosage, you don't absolutely need a washout period, but I'm concerned that the range where a dose response will be observed is significantly lower than 0.5mg/day.
Posted 29 November 2014 - 05:04 PM
If your oil is 0.8mg c60/ml, then 0.1 mg is 1/8 of a ml. That could be estimated with a conventional medicine dropper, or measured accurately with an appropriate pipette. Another easy way to do this would be to start with 1 ml of c60oo, add plain olive oil to a total volume of 8 ml, and mix it thoroughly. 1 ml of this solution would contain 0.1 mg c60. As long as you are increasing dosage, you don't absolutely need a washout period, but I'm concerned that the range where a dose response will be observed is significantly lower than 0.5mg/day.
The dilution method would probably be most accurate; nonnegligibe residue on the measuring device would otherwise be a concern.
Now that I think about it, I actually think it would be better without a washout at all; otherwise the experiment becomes too long and gets exposed to other more disruptive noise sources than the mere "smearing" effect of compressing the different doses in time.
Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:52 PM
Niagen is nicotinamide riboside, not NADH. That said, it might be worth a (separate) c60oo combo trial. Sorry I don't yet understand Niagen well enough to comment otherwise.
Posted 29 November 2014 - 08:22 PM
Now that I think about it, I actually think it would be better without a washout at all; otherwise the experiment becomes too long and gets exposed to other more disruptive noise sources than the mere "smearing" effect of compressing the different doses in time.
That would be fine, providing you start with a c60-naive subject, and doses only increase, rather than going up and down. Otherwise, I doubt that you will see a dose response. You'll also need to start with a subject who is already trained on the exercise, or else you will most likely see a training effect that will look like a dose response.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 04:18 AM
I have not posted concerning my experimentation on a 76 kilo rat because I was waiting for results.
My rat is 43 [ "amazing I know, kind of like that magical rat from Harry Potter", Anyway... ]
My rat has consumed thirty-six 50ml bottles of commercially prepared C60OO over approximately the last 6 months -- 24 of those over the last 2.
Largest dose was three 50ml bottles in one day -- approximately 1.7 mg/kg exactly like the rats -- hey we know there is no toxicity even at 1000mg/kg so why allometrically scale all the time?
I [ok the jig is up] usually down a whole bottle -- once a week or a couple times a week -- then a week break until supply is gone -- wait a month or 2 and start again.
Results:
Grey hairs in beard have disappeared.
95% of grey/white hairs on chest and manly bits have disappeared.
Have another batch on the way -- will shave/wax during the next set of experimentation -- and see if there is no grey/white when it grows back in.
Overall the color of my body hair, facial hair, and the hair on my head has darkened. -- this was observed by others before I myself noticed.
Bald spot on crown has started to fill back in -- have just started topical with residue left in bottles, including dermaneedling prior to application -- will report and also start a picture log.
Depth of naso-labial fold has decreased.
Crows feet have decreased, and some 20+ year old scars have lessened or faded.
Some hard to lose body fat (Im 5'10, 176 lbs) has vanished.
2 complete blood panels during this time show me to be the epitome of health resting heart rate 60 bpm ; BP 110/64 ; glucose 104 (I live in the us between 90 and 110 is considered perfect); electrolytes perfect; cholesterol normal etc etc.
I fully believe that the comparatively high dosages that I am taking are responsible for the extremely noticeable effects after only a few months of use.
Crazy lucid, and/or vivid, and colorful dreams that you can actually pick up where you left off if you awaken during the night.
Edited by sensei, 02 December 2014 - 04:41 AM.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:42 PM
Wow sensei, that's a pretty amazing report. My first thought was "too good to be true", but when I think about it, there have been sporadic reports of grey hair turning back, and of hair growth in bald spots. You are at the high end of dosage that's been reported here, but the other two cases I can think of in your dosage range didn't have these issues to any great extent, so there wasn't much to see. This makes me wonder if high doses can do something that low doses cannot. So far, I've really been struck be a strong lack of dose-response in the effects reported here, as though a small dose was all you really needed to see effects, and larger doses just made them last longer. That hasn't been formally tested, though, so maybe there's something to larger doses.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 01:44 PM
Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:00 PM
Interesting report, sensei, but when you say that we know C60 has "no toxicity even at 1000mg/kg," that's not actually true. Studies have been done with high doses of suspended powder, but that is not dissolved and thus not absorbed. If you were to take a dissolved dose of 1000mg/kg in olive oil--95 liters for your weight--you would die before you got a few percent of it down, just from the olive oil.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:28 PM
Interesting report, sensei, but when you say that we know C60 has "no toxicity even at 1000mg/kg," that's not actually true. Studies have been done with high doses of suspended powder, but that is not dissolved and thus not absorbed. If you were to take a dissolved dose of 1000mg/kg in olive oil--95 liters for your weight--you would die before you got a few percent of it down, just from the olive oil.
OK fair enough --
We know from the Baati study that acute administration of 1.7 mg/kg in mammals daily for 7 days is non-toxic.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:44 PM
Wow sensei, that's a pretty amazing report. My first thought was "too good to be true", but when I think about it, there have been sporadic reports of grey hair turning back, and of hair growth in bald spots. You are at the high end of dosage that's been reported here, but the other two cases I can think of in your dosage range didn't have these issues to any great extent, so there wasn't much to see. This makes me wonder if high doses can do something that low doses cannot. So far, I've really been struck be a strong lack of dose-response in the effects reported here, as though a small dose was all you really needed to see effects, and larger doses just made them last longer. That hasn't been formally tested, though, so maybe there's something to larger doses.
I believe that the higher dosage does affect things differently.
It also may be the accumulated total dosage -- I'm at 1.62 grams, after the next round of 2 dozen bottles, my total will be 2.7 grams over only 8 months.
Is there anyone else on the boards that is on pace to consume 4 grams/year?
Perhaps there is a threshold of saturation that instigates changes in mitochondria and cells that lead to apoptosis of senescent cells, reversal of senescence through telomere reconstruction, or whatever is causing these effects.
I have also noticed other posters say the oil lays on the skin. I vigorously rub it in with bare hands; onto my scalp and face -- it is completely absorbed within 30-45 minutes.
I have 2 dozen more on the way.
My plan is a bottle every other day continuously until done -- will be about 7 weeks
daily application to scalp and face (there is a small bit left after downing the bottle that the dropper cant reach, and if you let the bottle sit you can recover it) -- dermarolling face and scalp appropriately
I also intend to test the effect on strength training and physical conditioning. I will be embarking upon a rigorous martial arts based physical training regimen that also includes "western" strength training
Edited by sensei, 02 December 2014 - 05:52 PM.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:00 PM
Also, all my hair grows faster - I use a powered trimmer with zero guard, my hair is growing 3/8" a week or more if I let it grow, that is the equivalent of over an inch a month for a 43 year old male
The normal rate of hair growth is .5 - .625" per month.
And I have also been plagued (lol) intermittently by the monster eyebrow (as some other posters have commented). I pulled one out that was as long as my little finger.
Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:55 PM
I don't have any old photos that show the hair -- I will be taking baseline photos this month and then tracking progress.
To be clear, my interest in C60OO was for long term longevity.
I was completely surprised at the effects.
Thanks for sharing that info.
Hair growing back and immaculate health has shown in your blood panels is pretty solid evidence C60 is doing something right.... I'm not good enough in biochemistry to speculate anything but your results are just amazing!
Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:37 PM
Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:52 PM
My word, sensei, I can't imagine how you gulp down a whole bottle of olive oil. yagh I have to steel myself just to take a teaspoon. I really admire your results, however. Good job!
Pour it over vegetables or salad (along with some balsamic vinegar) or just pour it onto a plate, add salt and pepper to taste, and dip bread in it. I've done a 30ml bottle in one day using this approach. That's only two tablespoons. A lot of people use that much olive oil every day.
Posted 03 December 2014 - 02:11 AM
My word, sensei, I can't imagine how you gulp down a whole bottle of olive oil. yagh I have to steel myself just to take a teaspoon. I really admire your results, however. Good job!
50ml of olive oil is only 1/3 a glass of wine ( 5 glasses to 750 ml bottle of wine)
Once you get used to it you don't really even need to chase it with anything, although at first I did.
even three was not that bad.
Posted 03 December 2014 - 06:33 AM
Wow sensei, that's a pretty amazing report. My first thought was "too good to be true", but when I think about it, there have been sporadic reports of grey hair turning back, and of hair growth in bald spots. You are at the high end of dosage that's been reported here, but the other two cases I can think of in your dosage range didn't have these issues to any great extent, so there wasn't much to see. This makes me wonder if high doses can do something that low doses cannot. So far, I've really been struck be a strong lack of dose-response in the effects reported here, as though a small dose was all you really needed to see effects, and larger doses just made them last longer. That hasn't been formally tested, though, so maybe there's something to larger doses.
I believe that the higher dosage does affect things differently.
It also may be the accumulated total dosage -- I'm at 1.62 grams, after the next round of 2 dozen bottles, my total will be 2.7 grams over only 8 months.
Is there anyone else on the boards that is on pace to consume 4 grams/year?
Perhaps there is a threshold of saturation that instigates changes in mitochondria and cells that lead to apoptosis of senescent cells, reversal of senescence through telomere reconstruction, or whatever is causing these effects.
I have also noticed other posters say the oil lays on the skin. I vigorously rub it in with bare hands; onto my scalp and face -- it is completely absorbed within 30-45 minutes.
I have 2 dozen more on the way.
My plan is a bottle every other day continuously until done -- will be about 7 weeks
daily application to scalp and face (there is a small bit left after downing the bottle that the dropper cant reach, and if you let the bottle sit you can recover it) -- dermarolling face and scalp appropriately
I also intend to test the effect on strength training and physical conditioning. I will be embarking upon a rigorous martial arts based physical training regimen that also includes "western" strength training
Interesting report, Sensei!
I was taking 9 mg a day for a while, but slipped back to about 5.6 mg, which yields about half what you said over 8 months.
Still, yesterday I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while over food and at the end, as he was leaving, he had a big bright smile and said, "Mike, whatever you're doing, keep doing it. You look fantastic." When he said it, it hit me as strong confirmation of what others have said and what I see.
There's no question the lines on my face have faded to about a fourth - or less - than what they were a a year or so before I started taking C60oo.
And several scars have faded to invisibility, such that when I cut my forehead bumping it against the sharply spattered stucco on the outside of my house doing some work a couple months ago, I knew that the cut would fade away to nothing quickly and it did. No sign of it now.
I'm going to double my dose, as it appears that C60oo, like everything, has an optimal dosage range where more does more up to the point of diminishing returns, and no one has determined what the upper end of the curve is.
BTW: Please tell what source you are buying from.
50 ml bottles sounds like Vaughter's.
There has also been a question of whether one source is superior to another, with Anthony inferring that Vaughter's was somehow inferior, but not responding to my question of why he said that.
I've been buying Carbon's, but it costs much more than Vaughter's, so if you're getting that effect from Vaughter's I would save a lot doing the same.
Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:57 AM
He inferred that she was using the wrong form of c60, which sounds weird since it should be the same. But I know too little about atomic physics to say if it makes a difference. The makers of c60 have been throwing a lot of crap at each other so I'm not sure what to believe.
Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:18 PM
My word, sensei, I can't imagine how you gulp down a whole bottle of olive oil. yagh I have to steel myself just to take a teaspoon. I really admire your results, however. Good job!
50ml of olive oil is only 1/3 a glass of wine ( 5 glasses to 750 ml bottle of wine)
Once you get used to it you don't really even need to chase it with anything, although at first I did.
even three was not that bad.
I add the oil to a glass of water, stir it around and immediately drink it down. And if you add a Mio type flavoring to the water, you will barely notice the oil at all.
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