13 replies to this topic

[david ellis]

I am thinking about trying C60. In another thread, someone suggested testing for malondialdehyde. lipid peroxides. I found a vendor who sells a test for malondialdehyde. The price is $167.
The vendor also has an ION panel-series of 44 tests that sells for $795. That is $18 a test, a pretty good discount for volume. This series of tests, besides malondialdehyde, includes a test to measure DNA damage, 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine. The other 42 tests are also comprehensive measures of health and metabolism. I expect levels of malondialdehyde and DNA damage to sharply drop if C60 is effective. Am I right?

I am thinking of using the ION tests to benchmark the effects of C60. Last week, I took some regular medical blood test panels including hormones, so I should have a comprehensive before position.

I am wondering is there a better way to do this? Is this a good plan? What are the pitfalls? Are there ways to save money?

[niner]

I am thinking about trying C60. In another thread, someone suggested testing for malondialdehyde. lipid peroxides. I found a vendor who sells a test for malondialdehyde. The price is $167.
The vendor also has an ION panel-series of 44 tests that sells for $795. That is $18 a test, a pretty good discount for volume. This series of tests, besides malondialdehyde, includes a test to measure DNA damage, 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine. The other 42 tests are also comprehensive measures of health and metabolism. I expect levels of malondialdehyde and DNA damage to sharply drop if C60 is effective. Am I right?

I am thinking of using the ION tests to benchmark the effects of C60. Last week, I took some regular medical blood test panels including hormones, so I should have a comprehensive before position.

I am wondering is there a better way to do this? Is this a good plan? What are the pitfalls? Are there ways to save money?

It looked like there were a couple hundred analytes in that pdf- do they measure all of them? That seems like overkill as far as evaluating the effects of C60, but if the cost isn't a problem, it certainly gets you a lot of data. Genova has an oxidative stress screen that looks like it would be really good, if the price is right. They helpfully refuse to tell patients what it costs, instead wanting you to go through a physician, which isn't a good sign as far as reasonable prices go.

[Turnbuckle]

Do you normally do all this before taking a new supplement?

[niner]

Well, this is no ordinary supplement. Blood tests are potentially useful as a way to see what it's doing, but bear in mind that whatever the test costs, you'd need to do it twice. Once for a baseline, and again after taking C60 for some amount of time, to measure any effects.

[Turnbuckle]

but bear in mind that whatever the test costs, you'd need to do it twice. Once for a baseline, and again after taking C60 for some amount of time, to measure any effects.

That really isn't sufficient. My blood tests were different after C60, but they weren't significant when compared to my test history over the previous couple of years. Every test and every person has variability.

[david ellis]

It looked like there were a couple hundred analytes in that pdf- do they measure all of them? That seems like overkill as far as evaluating the effects of C60, but if the cost isn't a problem, it certainly gets you a lot of data. Genova has an oxidative stress screen that looks like it would be really good, if the price is right. They helpfully refuse to tell patients what it costs, instead wanting you to go through a physician, which isn't a good sign as far as reasonable prices go.

Genova and Metametrix might be the same outfit. Metametrix has Genova trademarks on its web pages.

Whoops, there is 46 tests, not hundreds, but 46 is enough to support a ION Analyte Pattern Analysis status of the following subjects - Oxidative Stress\Antioxidant Insufficiency; Mitochrodial Impairment; Amino Acid Insufficiency; Essential Fatty Acids Insufficiency; Disordered Methyl Group(Single Carbon) Transfer; Disordered Tryptophan Metabolism; Detoxification Impairment; Toxic exposure; Digestion/Absorption; Intestinal Yeasts/Fungal metabolites; Intestinal Bacterial Metabolites; Mental/Emotional; Metabolic Syndrome; Fatigue; Cardiovascular System;

I took the ION test in 2009. I thought it was worthwhile, but for a few months I was making the payments on a Mercedes.

Do you normally do all this before taking a new supplement?

No, I don't. But, I don't think regular blood tests will measure what needs to be measured. You can learn a little from A1c, but it might not be conclusive.

Lipid peroxides and DNA damage would be more conclusive. I made the jump to the entire ION panel easily, because I have taken it once and think it is valuable. And when I thought that lipid peroxides and DNA damage would cost around $400 each time, that made the jump to $800 easy. A lot of extra value. And there are open items that need an answer. Are my efforts to reduce my aluminum successful. Have I put a dent in my DNA damage? Plus a few other things that need validating.

[niner]

It looked like there were a couple hundred analytes in that pdf- do they measure all of them? That seems like overkill as far as evaluating the effects of C60, but if the cost isn't a problem, it certainly gets you a lot of data. Genova has an oxidative stress screen that looks like it would be really good, if the price is right. They helpfully refuse to tell patients what it costs, instead wanting you to go through a physician, which isn't a good sign as far as reasonable prices go.

Genova and Metametrix might be the same outfit. Metametrix has Genova trademarks on its web pages.

Whoops, there is 46 tests, not hundreds,

Yeah, it looked like a ton of analytes at first glance, but I see there aren't that many. I just saw the Genova / Metametrix connection today too. It does look like there are some things in the Genova ox stress screen that aren't in the ION panel, but then there are some things in the ION panel that would be interesting as well. Plus, if you've taken it previously, it serves as a past snapshot for comparison purposes.

[david ellis]

Yeah, it looked like a ton of analytes at first glance, but I see there aren't that many. I just saw the Genova / Metametrix connection today too. It does look like there are some things in the Genova ox stress screen that aren't in the ION panel, but then there are some things in the ION panel that would be interesting as well. Plus, if you've taken it previously, it serves as a past snapshot for comparison purposes.

First, the bad news for me. The $795 ION test is now $835. $40 while we were talking.

There is a ton of analytes to choose from. Probably Genova and Metametrix do them in the same facility.

Why not make this a semi-official study? Design a study, select the tests necessary to test the hypothesis, negotiate a group price with Genova/Memametrix, sign up volunteers who agree to follow the study directives, and achieve something worthwhile, make a mark.

[david ellis]

I pushed the button and ordered the ION test from DirectLabs.com. They have a deal like LEF's. Their doctor's staff takes care of HIPPA paperwork, and will answer questions about the test. I don't know how much the DIrectLab's doctor will do, but my call to LEF's doctor was definitely worth my time. The calls are not medical advice, read the disavowal at LEF.

Maybe DirectLab's prices are better than LEF's. My LEF tests cost $400 total. The complete panel plus testosterone, pregnenolonge, DHT, Testosterone(Free and Total), DHEA, and TSH. I say their prices may be
better because for $97 you get an apparently very complete series of tests. If it is the same package as LEF, the price is much lower.


Only $97
Regular Price $529 - You save over $400!

• Lipids
  
• CBC
  
• Thyroid
  
• Liver

• Kidney
  
• Minerals & Bones
  
• Fluid & Electrolytes
  
• Glucose

[niner]

How much was the ION panel from DirectLabs? Still $835? The $97 panel looks approximately like what my doctor usually orders up for me.

[Junk Master]

Good thread. As much as I'd like to think of c60/oo as a "new" type of supplement, I tend to side with Turnbuckle. That said, I just spent another $100 on it, so I'm clearly a believer.

I say test away!

[david ellis]

How much was the ION panel from DirectLabs? Still $835? The $97 panel looks approximately like what my doctor usually orders up for me.

Yes, apparently a comprehensive panel. Good price with a thyroid test, probably TSH, included. Ion is still $835. $835 is hard, but that is only one payment on a small Mercedes, much better than last time. They are sending me a kit with supplies for blood and urine tests. Oh, you were right, there were a lot of tests. 138 of them, for a total of $6 a test.

Good thread. As much as I'd like to think of c60/oo as a "new" type of supplement, I tend to side with Turnbuckle. That said, I just spent another $100 on it, so I'm clearly a believer.

I say test away!

Thanks, Knowledge is power.

Edited by david ellis, 13 October 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[Freebytes]

_{On the subject of testing and expensive tests, if I was to take a blood sample and planned to store it in a freezer, how long would it last? Before taking supplements, I would like to have a before and after snapshot, but it would not be feasible for me to run many tests at this time. Would it expire too quickly for it to be worthwhile? At what temperatures would it need to be stored?}

[YOLF]

Any new info on this topic? I have a family in the C60 Human Trial topic that's going to begin taking C60 and I'd like to take measurements What do you guys recommend? What's the best way to spend money on testing to find out how C60 works and how other supplements could follow or how C60 compares with other supplements?