16 replies to this topic

[trance]

Released case file attached, includes time lines, drugs used, methodology, etc.

" This Reasoned Decision includes a summary of the overwhelming evidence that demonstrates that Mr. Armstrong doped throughout the majority of his professional cycling career. Among the evidence in this case are the sworn statements1 of more than two dozen (24+) witnesses, including fifteen (15) professional cyclists, and a dozen (12) members of Armstrong’s cycling teams, including eleven (11) former teammates and his former soigneur (masseuse). Nine (9) of the professional cyclists were, like Mr. Armstrong, clients of Dr. Michele Ferrari and have firsthand knowledge of his doping practices. "

Attached Files

•  reasoneddecision.pdf   673.92KB   7 downloads

[Mind]

Since the money in pro sports is huge and the technology to dope is staying so far ahead of the testing agencies, I will again suggest that pro sports start allowing "safe" PEDs for their athletes. I know there is nothing perfectly safe, but the athletes are paid to take great risks with their health quite often, and they are almost all doing it anyway. Lance Armstrong proves that you can easily beat the system for years and years. Time to embrace PEDs. Instead of watching sports pitting cavemen against cavemen (essentially) we can watch superman vs. superman. A positive side effect is that we will find out more about how PEDs relate to health and longevity. Many of them could be positive for maintaining muscle and bone mass in old age.

[nowayout]

Well, I don't care if Armstrong doped, but what damns him in my opinion is that he applied pressure to reluctant teammates to also dope. That makes him an ass.

[sthira]

Time to embrace PEDs. Instead of watching sports pitting cavemen against cavemen (essentially) we can watch superman vs. superman. A positive side effect is that we will find out more about how PEDs relate to health and longevity. Many of them could be positive for maintaining muscle and bone mass in old age.

I agree. But one problem is children and minors who mimic their sports heroes by also upping PEDs. Legalize and regulate this stuff, yes, but it won't come without consequences. Age limits on alcohol, how well do they work?

[hivemind]

Since the money in pro sports is huge and the technology to dope is staying so far ahead of the testing agencies

Very common substances can be used so that they do not come up in the tests. I think it's not about technology so much, it is more about the fact that doping testing is too predictable and athletes can avoid it when they are using stuff.

The substances used are very common: HGH, testosterone, common steroids, EPO.

Gene doping is an interesting new technology and you can already buy that gene stuff online.

Edited by hivemind, 11 October 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[LORDDiESEL]

Gene doping is an interesting new technology and you can already buy that gene stuff online.

I know a lot of people in to this, including myself. There isn't a lot of gene dope out there that works. At least not what the bodybuilding community can get their hands on. I believe these new drugs are really being kept out of the light.

[ironfistx]

Pro athletes use drugs. They have to, because their competition already has good genes, good training programs, and good diets. And their competition is doping, so in order to even have a change, they have to dope, too.

That part wasn't surprising.

What was surprising is that he pressured his teammates to dope, and that he sued people who accused him of doping. That makes him a jerk.

[Adamzski]

Since the money in pro sports is huge and the technology to dope is staying so far ahead of the testing agencies, I will again suggest that pro sports start allowing "safe" PEDs for their athletes. I know there is nothing perfectly safe, but the athletes are paid to take great risks with their health quite often, and they are almost all doing it anyway. Lance Armstrong proves that you can easily beat the system for years and years. Time to embrace PEDs. Instead of watching sports pitting cavemen against cavemen (essentially) we can watch superman vs. superman. A positive side effect is that we will find out more about how PEDs relate to health and longevity. Many of them could be positive for maintaining muscle and bone mass in old age.

I don't think its a good idea as what others have said about kids and also people from poorer countries not having access to the good stuff.

I think there should be a separate open Olympics where you can be on ever drug under the sun. Disgraced stars can go there and massively break records! I would PPV it

[Shepard]

I think there should be a separate open Olympics where you can be on ever drug under the sun. Disgraced stars can go there and massively break records! I would PPV it

If this ever came to pass (and I hope it doesn't), I doubt any records would be massively broken.

[Mind]

It has to break down into enhanced vs. un-enhanced sports. It should be more open and transparent. That is the way it is going anyway, why fight it.

[Shepard]

There is no legitimate way to define or govern an un-enhanced sport. USADA does all that it can to bust athletes in certain sports here in the USA. Does that mean athletes are clean or that USADA is not corrupt? Not really. There are loopholes that can be exploited, restorative modalities that are unavailable to any average person and the vast majority of athletes, and all the herbal supplements under the sun which can still technically be used.

[ironfistx]

I think there should be a separate open Olympics where you can be on ever drug under the sun. Disgraced stars can go there and massively break records! I would PPV it

If this ever came to pass (and I hope it doesn't), I doubt any records would be massively broken.

Cuz all the current records were already set with drugs :P

[The Immortalist]

Time to embrace PEDs. Instead of watching sports pitting cavemen against cavemen (essentially) we can watch superman vs. superman. A positive side effect is that we will find out more about how PEDs relate to health and longevity. Many of them could be positive for maintaining muscle and bone mass in old age.

I agree. But one problem is children and minors who mimic their sports heroes by also upping PEDs. Legalize and regulate this stuff, yes, but it won't come without consequences. Age limits on alcohol, how well do they work?

People who want to use these drugs are able to get them so easily it's not funny. That includes minors. I've known where to go to get performance/muscle building drugs ever since I was 14 but never felt I needed or wanted to use them.


Also a huge danger is that since it's on the black market you can't regulate whether you are buying a real product or not. It could just be filled with filler crap and only 5% of the real stuff you thought you were getting or none at all. Worse it could be filled with dangerous fillers.

[YOLF]

Looks like I'm waking the dead here, but why not just have a purist low risk sports league and one that allows doping? That would really make a cheater out to be an ass. Cigarettes are probably more dangerous than doping and they're still legal and killing alot more people than doping in sports. Really? Don't we have better things to do with our efforts?

My first thought about LA were that he was taking T to compensate for the loss of a testicle. The roids of his time were much more dangerous and it looks like as long as people stick to bio identical they're fine right? So possibly synthetic roids lead to his cancer? So support healthy and monitored doping and learn something from it and keep people constantly appraised of the risk and developing information. Sporting commentary could be based on discussions of the test data from doping to keep people accurately appraised of dangers and keep biotech moving forward.

Just some thoughts...

[Link]

I think Lance Armstrong is a douche for what he did, but more because he lied to peoples faces for years and then tried to be all apologetic once he was backed into a corner and had no way out.

I don't really care if athletes use steroids or not, but if it's against the rules, then it's against the rules.

If you get caught, be a man and fes up and don't use the fact that "everyone was doing it" as an excuse.

The people i feel sorry for are the people who were robbed of their rightful place on top of the podium and moment of glory, which can never be gotten back.

[nowayout]

Pro athletes use drugs. They have to, because their competition already has good genes, good training programs, and good diets. And their competition is doping, so in order to even have a change, they have to dope, too.

I disagree with the often repeated notion that they "have to because everybody does it".

Well, not really. Not all teams from all countries have the millions in financial resources that the U.S. postal team had, for example. It becomes a competition not of athleticism but of who has the most money to buy the best drugs and corrupt the best doctors.

You might as well eliminate the pesky sports event itself and simply hold an auction to let the teams make a financial bid to buy the trophy, since it comes down to the same thing.

[jarekd1234]

I think there should be a separate open Olympics where you can be on ever drug under the sun. Disgraced stars can go there and massively break records! I would PPV it

As if that can work out lol. Drug tests will always be beaten and people would want to watch superhuman performances anyway.