15 replies to this topic

[Michael]

Resveratrol inhibits the proliferation of neural progenitor cells and hippocampal neurogenesis.
Park HR, Kong KH, Yu BP, Mattson MP, Lee J.
J Biol Chem. 2012 Oct 26. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID:23105098
Free Article
http://www.jbc.org/c...112.406413.long

... Some studies have reported therapeutic actions of resveratrol in animal models of metabolic neurodegenerative disorders [such as mice engineered to overproduce beta-amyloid -MR]. However, the effects of resveratrol on cell, tissue and organ function in healthy subjects are largely unknown.

... Administration of resveratrol to mice (1-10 mg/kg) resulted in activation of AMPK, and reduced the proliferation and survival of NPCs in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus. Resveratrol down-regulated the levels of the phosphorylated ... (CREB) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) in the hippocampus. Finally, resveratrol-treated mice exhibited deficits in hippocampus-dependent spatial learning and memory.

Our findings suggest that resveratrol, unlike [dietary restriction], adversely affects hippocampal neurogenesis and cognitive function by a mechanism involving activation of AMPK and suppression of CREB and BDNF signaling.

Edited by Michael, 02 August 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[hav]

Not sure I understand exactly what they administered to the test mice. They mention resveratrol was ip injected. I assume it had to be dissolved in something in order to administer it that way. I'm guessing they dissolved it in the same 2% ethanol, .1% tween 20 solution they gave the control (vehicle) mice. If that's the case, perhaps what they really measured in their MWM trials is the interaction of resveratrol and alcohol. I think I get similar enhancement when I mix resveratrol and Irish Cream.

Howard

Edited by hav, 01 November 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

I agree,

Two grams of res, and a night of drinking with the coworkers was a little nuts for me... That was the first and last time i did THAT!

You may not remember much if you drink more than a few drinks... Well maybe the shots :rolleyes: and maybe then... Not much else.

A

[madamshome]

The in vitro results, which did not appear to involve dilution in alcohol indicated a mechanism via which the inhibition could occur & was consistent with their in vivo results. I don't understand why we shouldn't be more concerned about this. The last thing I need is inhibited neurogenesis.

[maxwatt]

Soy has a similar effect on brain size and neurogenesis, due to soy polyphenols also inhibiting BDNF. * But this paper found two weeks of a high-soy diet decreased infarct size after permanent middle cerebral artery occlusion in female rats. It protected against the effect of an artificial stroke.

Soy, like resveratrol, inhibits BDNF. If one wishes to continue use of resveratrol, perhaps a protocol of two weeks on, two weeks off would prevent possible dementia?

* The effect in humans is as yet uncertain. Studies in Hawaii have found smaller brain size and increased dementia in Japanese-American men who consumed more soy than those who did not, yet a study in Okinawa found a very low incidence of dementia despite an extremely high soy diet.

[Dolph]

Soy, like resveratrol, inhibits BDNF.

I actually wouldn't be too sure about that at the moment. It's definetly more complicated and confusing. Maybe we are only confused bacause we already took too much resveratrol? ^^
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21221775

[victortsoi]

wow. I've been mixing noopept with resveratrol (nitro 250) for a month...

[Kevnzworld]

But then there is some evidence of the opposite. The mice in these studies also began as healthy mice and were not genetically engineered as far as I could tell

"Resveratrol may be effective for improving fatigue symptoms and enlarging the atrophic hippocampus by repressing apoptosis and promoting neurogenesis"
https://www.jstage.j..._3_354/_article

Significant enhancement of angiogenesis and neurogenesis was observed in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus in these animals (P<.01). Improvement of spatial learning in the Morris water maze was observed in WT mice after administration of resveratrol.
These observations strongly suggest that resveratrol increases hippocampal IGF-I production via sensory neuron stimulation in the gastrointestinal tract, thereby improving cognitive function in mice.
http://www.sciencedi...955286310002457

In conclusion, this is the first study to show beneficial effects of long-term dietary supplementation with the natural polyphenol resveratrol on cognitive functioning and cerebrovascular condition. The status of the cerebrovascular system and the neurovascular unit have gained increasing interest as a potential target for treatment of aging associated disorders of the brain (Iadecola, 2004; Zlokovic, 2008). In this light, we propose that ingestion of resveratrol, thereby targeting the integrity of the cerebrovascular system, can be an effective and simple method to support healthy aging of the brain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2874408/

Edited by Kevnzworld, 03 November 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[maxwatt]

Soy, like resveratrol, inhibits BDNF.

I actually wouldn't be too sure about that at the moment. It's definetly more complicated and confusing. Maybe we are only confused bacause we already took too much resveratrol? ^^
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21221775

The more we learn the less we know. Michael showed us a paper where they administered 1-10 mg/kg, and found BDNF was inhibited via AMPK. The above study administered 2.5-20 mg/kg and found the opposite result. Dose dependency? Length of administration in the studies?

[Dolph]

Michael showed us a paper where they administered 1-10 mg/kg, and found BDNF was inhibited via AMPK. The above study administered 2.5-20 mg/kg and found the opposite result. Dose dependency? Length of administration in the studies?

Something smells fishy, I don't know. I would feel more able to conclude something if one study found something where another one found nothing. But completely opposite results pose the question if both studies can be taken serious.
It doesn't get easier by the fact the study I cited has been done in Iran, but to be honest that is some strange kind of chauvinistic/scientific bias on my side, too.
I definetly hope that more work will be done on that subject.

[maxwatt]

Graduate students and even lead researchers have been known to fudge or even falsify results under pressure. Something like a third of all studies cannot be replicated. Eventually the weight of accrued evidence can lead to an accepted paradigm, which sometimes is overturned, or worse, forgotten.

If you want clarity and absolute certainty, try religions fanaticism instead of science.

[malbecman]

I'd like to think (that is, if I am still capable of it) that those of us who have been mid to long term users would have been noticing any adverse mental effects by now. I, for one, feel like my mind is as agile as ever.

[Dolph]

I'd like to think (that is, if I am still capable of it) that those of us who have been mid to long term users would have been noticing any adverse mental effects by now. I, for one, feel like my mind is as agile as ever.

Very unlikely actually. Nobody argued you'd turn into a salivating broccoli overnight...
At the moment it's not completely clear what the function of hippocampal neurogenesis is. So you wouldn't even really know for what kind of symptoms to watch for.

[elphaba]

I don't see where this paper indicated what kind of soy? From what I've read, there is a significant difference in health advantages of "whole food" and/or fermented soy (such as edamame, tempe, miso) and unfermented soy (such as tofu, tofu hot dogs, fake meat). Isolated soy protein powder is included in the unhealthy group and is something that would probably be convenient in use for an animal study.

Soy has a similar effect on brain size and neurogenesis, due to soy polyphenols also inhibiting BDNF. * But this paper found two weeks of a high-soy diet decreased infarct size after permanent middle cerebral artery occlusion in female rats. It protected against the effect of an artificial stroke.

Soy, like resveratrol, inhibits BDNF. If one wishes to continue use of resveratrol, perhaps a protocol of two weeks on, two weeks off would prevent possible dementia?

* The effect in humans is as yet uncertain. Studies in Hawaii have found smaller brain size and increased dementia in Japanese-American men who consumed more soy than those who did not, yet a study in Okinawa found a very low incidence of dementia despite an extremely high soy diet.

[maxwatt]

I don't see where this paper indicated what kind of soy? From what I've read, there is a significant difference in health advantages of "whole food" and/or fermented soy (such as edamame, tempe, miso) and unfermented soy (such as tofu, tofu hot dogs, fake meat). Isolated soy protein powder is included in the unhealthy group and is something that would probably be convenient in use for an animal study.

Soy has a similar effect on brain size and neurogenesis, due to soy polyphenols also inhibiting BDNF. * But this paper found two weeks of a high-soy diet decreased infarct size after permanent middle cerebral artery occlusion in female rats. It protected against the effect of an artificial stroke.

Soy, like resveratrol, inhibits BDNF. If one wishes to continue use of resveratrol, perhaps a protocol of two weeks on, two weeks off would prevent possible dementia?

* The effect in humans is as yet uncertain. Studies in Hawaii have found smaller brain size and increased dementia in Japanese-American men who consumed more soy than those who did not, yet a study in Okinawa found a very low incidence of dementia despite an extremely high soy diet.

It's thought to be the phytoestrogens in soy that are responsible and these are present in all soy. Anyway, we are talking about resveratrol here; the soy studies are for comparison vis a vis BDNF.

[Fred_CALICO]

Conflicting studies concerning the effects of neurogenic RVS:
1 / Reproducibility and repeatability before conclusion.
2 / RVS no effect ... the effects just another way.