68 replies to this topic

[Mishael]

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Mishael]

Links between Revelation 13 and Daniel 7

As Jesus had done in His prophetic discourse (Mark 13, Matt. 24) John sketches the future of the church with the symbols of Daniel. John follows the style of Daniel's Apocalyptic outlines by again periodizing church history by means of successive world powers. As in Daniel's visions, so Revelation moves forward in history from John's own time until the very end of the church age. Both Daniel and John portray the same archenemy of God and of His covenant people. While Daniel had portrayed the "little horn" as an anti-messiah (Dan. 7-8), John now defines him as the antichrist (Rev. 13). Bible Scholars today recognize "that Revelation 13 is modeled on Daniel 7" (G.K. Beale).

Revelation 13

He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them (v.7)

And to exercise his authority for forty two months (v.5).

Daniel 7

As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them (v.21).
The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and haft a time (v.25).

[MrHappy]

[lifebuddy]

seen it all before..... not usually my style, but here goes: "WHATEVER!"

[Mishael]

Are English people the most atheistic in the world? Seems to me, that is where Darwin came from. Why the stubborn refusal to believe in God? The above are two different books, written by two different authors who never met, written in two different languages, in two different places hundreds of miles apart, by two people of opposite socioeconomic status, talking about the same things separated by several hundred years. Do you not see it? It does not get any better than this until judgement day and then it will be too late. Sunday keeping is mans usurpation of Gods sovereignty.

[shadowhawk]

Are English people the most atheistic in the world? Seems to me, that is where Darwin came from. Why the stubborn refusal to believe in God? The above are two different books, written by two different authors who never met, written in two different languages, in two different places hundreds of miles apart, by two people of opposite socioeconomic status, talking about the same things separated by several hundred years. Do you not see it? It does not get any better than this until judgement day and then it will be too late. Sunday keeping is mans usurpation of Gods sovereignty.

I have nothing to say about Sunday Laws. I go to church for 5 hours every Sunday. As for the English, they did more for spreading Christianity around the world, than anyone else. There are still many Christians in England.

[johnross47]

Where you say "English" you should really say British. The Scottish, Welsh and Irish live here too. We don't go to church much because we mostly just don't care. The few who can be bothered to think about it are mostly non believers....there's nothing stubborn about it; we took a look and didn't like what we saw.

That apart I'm quite in favour of having a national day off and if it happens to suit one the religious minorities that's fine. There are many social and psychological benefits to having a day away from slaving for some globalised over-rewarded parasite, which is what most work amounts to nowadays. It's good to have a day they can't control.

[Mishael]

Are English people the most atheistic in the world? Seems to me, that is where Darwin came from. Why the stubborn refusal to believe in God? The above are two different books, written by two different authors who never met, written in two different languages, in two different places hundreds of miles apart, by two people of opposite socioeconomic status, talking about the same things separated by several hundred years. Do you not see it? It does not get any better than this until judgement day and then it will be too late. Sunday keeping is mans usurpation of Gods sovereignty.

I have nothing to say about Sunday Laws. I go to church for 5 hours every Sunday. As for the English, they did more for spreading Christianity around the world, than anyone else. There are still many Christians in England.

I doubt your claim very much. I think the opposite is true they are now the ones to lead the way to oppose belief in God. English is a major language in the world and what do they teach in schools? Atheism, selfishness, competition, evolution, worldliness etc. What do they teach in their churches? False doctrine. And it is a fact people in developed nations do not seem to care as the above poster stated, that is the universal sentiment. The nations that are growing spiritually speaking are in Africa, India, Brazil, China.

Edited by Mishael, 24 January 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[johnross47]

Your fantasy version of Britain does your position no favours. The nations that are crippling their minds with ignorant superstitious drivel are in Africa India Brazil China and the Moslem nations. But I have learned that there is no point discussing anything with religious posters so I won't waste any more of my time here.

[Lister]

Your fantasy version of Britain does your position no favours. The nations that are crippling their minds with ignorant superstitious drivel are in Africa India Brazil China and the Moslem nations. But I have learned that there is no point discussing anything with religious posters so I won't waste any more of my time here.

I would say there's a point as long as you're willing to entertain their ideas and obviously they're willing to entertain yours as well. Though if the religious person is only interested in forcing through their ideas that can and usually does lead to a lack lustre conversation. I think Shadow and I have had some pretty good conversations (though I'm pretty stubborn once I've made up my mind... I'm only human after all).

[pleb]

I agree with John Ross, although we do have a lot of churches, thankfully most are empty or boarded up, we just leave the larger ones open for the tourists to photograph cos the architectures quite nice,,,
bishops and vicars and others are like royalty we have them and put up with them ,but only as long as they don't tell us what to do and mind their own business,

Edited by pleb, 25 January 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[johnross47]

I agree with John Ross, although we do have a lot of churches, thankfully most are empty or boarded up, we just leave the larger ones open for the tourists to photograph cos the architectures quite nice,,,
bishops and vicars and others are like royalty we have them and put up with them ,but only as long as they don't tell us what to do and mind their own business,

That's pretty much the truth. We gasp in horror from time to time at their contorted attempts to deal with the modern world and then move on to the next freak show. Scotland has/had a reputation for being more religious but in reality the churches here are empty too. Out here in my very rural backwater they have had to amalgamate churches into groups of four or five and still they are only half or quarter full. There are hundreds of empty churches slowly decaying or being converted into houses.

But I do support Sunday as a national day off for various reasons; it's partly tradition.....it's the day we've always had off so we're set up for it. Days off are good socially and psychologically and if as many of us as possible are off at the same time it facilitates social events.

[johnross47]

Your fantasy version of Britain does your position no favours. The nations that are crippling their minds with ignorant superstitious drivel are in Africa India Brazil China and the Moslem nations. But I have learned that there is no point discussing anything with religious posters so I won't waste any more of my time here.

I would say there's a point as long as you're willing to entertain their ideas and obviously they're willing to entertain yours as well. Though if the religious person is only interested in forcing through their ideas that can and usually does lead to a lack lustre conversation. I think Shadow and I have had some pretty good conversations (though I'm pretty stubborn once I've made up my mind... I'm only human after all).

It depends who you are arguing with and what position you come from. You may be more tolerant of Shadowhawk's dogmatic strident bullying than I am, and as you are some sort of believer he is perhaps less prone to trying to define your position for you. His constant shoving of video clips is tedious and his constant use of unattributed quotes from people who write more coherently than he does, is unacceptable.

[Mishael]

People will wake up in the developed nations look at the floods in Japan, in Australia, in the US, in other places. The bible predicts these terrible catastrophes in Mathew 24, wars and rumors of wars among other things. The book of Daniel written thousands of years ago predicted the increase of knowledge both scientific and scriptural would increase nearing the second coming and it is today. Jesus prophecied that before he would come the second time the gospel would be preached into all the world and that is surely happening today the only places left are the middle east. The prophecy of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 came true already, November 13, 1833, and is well documented in American history. Atheists have nothing to hang on to.

Edited by Mishael, 28 January 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Lister]

People will wake up in the developed nations look at the floods in Japan, in Australia, in the US, in other places. The bible predicts these terrible catastrophes in Mathew 24, wars and rumors of wars among other things. The book of Daniel written thousands of years ago predicted the increase of knowledge both scientific and scriptural would increase nearing the second coming and it is today. Jesus prophecied that before he would come the second time the gospel would be preached into all the world and that is surely happening today the only places left are the middle east. The prophecy of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 came true already, November 13, 1833, and is well documented in American history. Atheists have nothing to hang on to.

And then, 3 days from now, Holographic Jesus makes his predicted return on CNN only to shock us all by announcing that Anderson Cooper is actually God himself. Praise be to his wispy white hair!

[pleb]

People will wake up in the developed nations look at the floods in Japan, in Australia, in the US, in other places. The bible predicts these terrible catastrophes in Mathew 24, wars and rumors of wars among other things. The book of Daniel written thousands of years ago predicted the increase of knowledge both scientific and scriptural would increase nearing the second coming and it is today. Jesus prophecied that before he would come the second time the gospel would be preached into all the world and that is surely happening today the only places left are the middle east. The prophecy of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 came true already, November 13, 1833, and is well documented in American history. Atheists have nothing to hang on to.

HeHeHe 1833 The Leonid's shower the Chinese observed that 4,000 years ago happens every year not much of a prediction,, and known in most other countries long before the US was colonised,
the rest could be attributed to many happenings through history your clutching at straws to try and salvage your beliefs as science and knowledge advances,

you really aught to get your head out of that comicbook, don't you study any modern history
the Atheists and Mussies are taking over, North Africa used to be Christian and most of the rest of Africa to now mussies everywhere out breeding the locals 3 to 1

the only place left for the book you follow a few years from now will be on a nail in the outdoor loo

PS my local vicar has some photos of the fairies at the bottom of his Garden do you fancy a swop for some of those you took,

Edited by pleb, 28 January 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Mishael]

People will wake up in the developed nations look at the floods in Japan, in Australia, in the US, in other places. The bible predicts these terrible catastrophes in Mathew 24, wars and rumors of wars among other things. The book of Daniel written thousands of years ago predicted the increase of knowledge both scientific and scriptural would increase nearing the second coming and it is today. Jesus prophecied that before he would come the second time the gospel would be preached into all the world and that is surely happening today the only places left are the middle east. The prophecy of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 came true already, November 13, 1833, and is well documented in American history. Atheists have nothing to hang on to.

And then, 3 days from now, Holographic Jesus makes his predicted return on CNN only to shock us all by announcing that Anderson Cooper is actually God himself. Praise be to his wispy white hair!

Idiot remark as per usual from someone with little substance.

People will wake up in the developed nations look at the floods in Japan, in Australia, in the US, in other places. The bible predicts these terrible catastrophes in Mathew 24, wars and rumors of wars among other things. The book of Daniel written thousands of years ago predicted the increase of knowledge both scientific and scriptural would increase nearing the second coming and it is today. Jesus prophecied that before he would come the second time the gospel would be preached into all the world and that is surely happening today the only places left are the middle east. The prophecy of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 came true already, November 13, 1833, and is well documented in American history. Atheists have nothing to hang on to.

HeHeHe 1833 The Leonid's shower the Chinese observed that 4,000 years ago happens every year not much of a prediction,, and known in most other countries long before the US was colonised,
the rest could be attributed to many happenings through history your clutching at straws to try and salvage your beliefs as science and knowledge advances,

you really aught to get your head out of that comicbook, don't you study any modern history
the Atheists and Mussies are taking over, North Africa used to be Christian and most of the rest of Africa to now mussies everywhere out breeding the locals 3 to 1

the only place left for the book you follow a few years from now will be on a nail in the outdoor loo

It does not happen every year you fool. You do not know what you are talking about. This particular shower was amazing, nothing has ever surpassed its magnificence. "Its sublimity and awful beauty still linger in many minds...NEVER did rain fall much thicker than the meteors fell toward the earth; east, west, north and south, it was the same. In a word, THE WHOLE HEAVENS seemed in motion...The display, as described in Professor Silliman's Journal, was seen all over North America...From two o'clock until BROAD DAYLIGHT, the sky being perfectly serene and cloudless, an INCESSANTplay of dazzling brilliant luminosities was kept up in the whole heavens." R.M. Devens, American Progress; or, The Great Events of the Greatest Century, Ch. 28, pars.1-5.

The fact is the gospel IS being preached around the world and cannot be stopped by any means the bible says it will be preached AS A WITNESS it does not mean everyone will accept. Read Mathew 24.

Edited by Mishael, 28 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[pleb]

The only idiot is you ,it does happen every year but varies in intensity because of the amount of debris hitting the earth's atmosphere,from almost none to intense displays try looking up the facts, ,
and yes I've also seen it myself, get an education from something other than the fairy tale you read the only thing of no substance is your belief,
your religion is dying its being left behind by understanding of the universe around us,
all you have is a belief nothing other than that, no proof whatsoever your belief does not constitute proof, and cherry picking odd items to try and prove it means nothing in the real world,
religious cranks have been proclaiming the second coming almost since shortly after his supposed death,
people like you held the world back for 400 years that's why it was known as the dark ages,

[pleb]

try looking up the Perseids storm which occurs in August, I've also seen that in broad daylight

[Lister]

Mischael I don’t dismiss religious views as easily as others here. I believe that there is value in spirituality and many of the teachings found in the holy books…

But seriously are you saying that God is without a sense of humor? Are you saying that all faith has to be dead serious? I think you need to lighten up.

[johnross47]

Hi all.

Many people are oblivious of the stark truths of the word of God especially the prophecies. That is a sad shame. Many people because of heredity, upbringing and other factors like lifestyle make the bible a distasteful book to themselves. This is a sad, sad error.

What is the Sunday Law and why is that important?

The Sunday law is a law requiring people eventually the whole world but starting in the US, to be forced to attend religious services on Sunday on penalty of death eventually but lesser penalties in the beginning see Revelation 13.

Why is this important?

It has to to with freedom and truth. There are two camps in the world. They are the believers and the unbelievers. Believers are those who believe their is a God or a higher power and then there are those unbelievers who are the atheists. The believers are further segregated by many types of religions which begs the question why are there so many religions and groups? Well, the bible explanation and probably the only source that will give the reliable explanation is the bible. I believe it is the only place where you will derive the truth, not by scientific experiments and experience but by the sheer reliability and truthfulness of it. Nothing can compare of all the literature.

Every one must realize the their salvation depends on themselves and their complete and reliable understanding of the word of God.

Now for some facts. There are more Catholics in the US government now then anytime in history. The Papacy and the Catholic church have been time and time again identified as the beast power as described in the scriptures. The pope claims to be God. He is not he is just a weak, pathetic human being like all of us. The Catholics WILL be the instigators of these changes. Just a few weeks ago the Catholics had a dinner with the two candidates for president and they were seated one on the left and one on the right of the Catholic priest. This stuff is real.

Something to keep an eye on. Watch the count of Catholics that will be voted in after this election. YOU WILL BE SURPRISED.

REMEMBER THE BIBLE SAYS:

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day (Saturday) is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I just re-read the original post in this topic. Instead of mocking Mishael we should be offering help and compassion, and guiding him (?) to psychiatric treatment. I mean that without the slightest bit of sarcasm. This is "delusional and paranoid" in the popular sense of these terms. When I say I would support a Sunday Law I hope nobody imagines I mean this pathological religio-fascist travesty. The idea that people should be forced into religious observance on threat of death is worthy of Al Qaeda.Does anybody know who Mishael is?

[Mishael]

The only idiot is you ,it does happen every year but varies in intensity because of the amount of debris hitting the earth's atmosphere,from almost none to intense displays try looking up the facts, ,
and yes I've also seen it myself, get an education from something other than the fairy tale you read the only thing of no substance is your belief,
your religion is dying its being left behind by understanding of the universe around us,
all you have is a belief nothing other than that, no proof whatsoever your belief does not constitute proof, and cherry picking odd items to try and prove it means nothing in the real world,
religious cranks have been proclaiming the second coming almost since shortly after his supposed death,
people like you held the world back for 400 years that's why it was known as the dark ages,

Even though I don't feel like apologizing for calling you an idiot. I'll apologize this once and give you the benefit of the doubt. You called me one so now we are even. I am going to give you a second chance. So now we have to get down to business. Meteors have never fallen like they did at that time. What part of INCESSANT don't you understand? What part of, "NEVER did rain fall much thicker" don't you understand? Show me one video of such a shower in our day which should happen once a year according to you and I will forever shut-up and if you can't you forever shut-up, deal? The best I imagine you will be able to do is one lousy meteor per minute or two and that equals dismal failure.

Edited by Mishael, 29 January 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[pleb]

-----------------------------

micheal posted this but it now appears he has deleted it, the article below his post which gives the details was posted by me,

My apologies for calling you an idiot. You called me one so now we are even. So now we have to get down to business. Meteors have never fallen like they did at that time. What part of INCESSANT don't you understand? What part of, "NEVER did rain fall much thicker" don't you understand? Show me one video of such a shower in our day which should happen once a year according to you and I will forever shut-up and if you can't you forever shut-up, deal? The best I imagine you will be able to do is ONE lousy meteor per minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Leonids (LEO)
A Leonid meteor during the peak of Leonids in 2009 Pronunciation pron.: /ˈliːənɪdz/ Discovery date 902 AD (first record)^[1] Parent body 55P/Tempel–Tuttle^[2] Radiant Constellation Leo Right ascension 10^h 08^m[2] Declination +22°^[2] Properties Occurs during November 15 – November 20^[2] Date of peak November 18^[2] Velocity 71^[3] km/s Zenithal hourly rate Varies^[2] See also: List of meteor showers
The Leonids (pron.: /ˈliːənɪdz/ LEE-ə-nidz) is a prolific meteor shower associated with the comet Tempel-Tuttle. The Leonids get their name from the location of their radiant in the constellation Leo: the meteors appear to radiate from that point in the sky. Their proper Greek name should be Leontids (Λεοντίδαι, Leontídai), but the word was initially constructed as a Greek/Latin hybrid^{[citation needed]} and it is being used since. They peak in November.
Earth moves through the meteoroid stream of particles left from the passages of a comet. The stream comprises solid particles, known as meteoroids, ejected by the comet as its frozen gases evaporate under the heat of the Sun when it is close enough – typically closer than Jupiter's orbit. The Leonids are a fast moving stream which encounter the path of Earth and impact at 72 km/s.^[4] Larger Leonids which are about 10 mm across have a mass of half a gram and are known for generating bright (apparent magnitude -1.5) meteors.^[5] An annual Leonid shower may deposit 12 or 13 tons of particles across the entire planet.
The meteoroids left by the comet are organized in trails in orbits similar to though different from that of the comet. They are differentially disturbed by the planets, in particular Jupiter^[6] and to a lesser extent by radiation pressure from the sun, the Poynting–Robertson effect, and the Yarkovsky effect.^[7] These trails of meteoroids cause meteor showers when Earth encounters them. Old trails are spatially not dense and compose the meteor shower with a few meteors per minute. In the case of the Leonids, that tends to peak around November 18, but some are spread through several days on either side and the specific peak changes every year. Conversely, young trails are spatially very dense and the cause of meteor outbursts when the Earth enters one. Meteor storms (large outbursts) exceed 1000 meteors per hour, to be compared to the sporadic background (5 to 8 meteors per hour) and the shower background (several per hour).

Contents
[hide]

• 1 History
  
  • 1.1 1800s
  • 1.2 1900s
  • 1.3 2000s
• 2 See also
  
• 3 References
  
• 4 External links

[edit] History

[edit] 1800s




A famous depiction of the 1833 meteor storm, produced in 1889 for the Seventh-day Adventist book Bible Readings for the Home Circle



Woodcut print depicts the shower as seen at Niagara Falls, New York. Mechanics' Magazine said this illustration was made by an editor named Pickering "who witnessed the scene."



Leonids as seen from space in 1997, NASA
The Leonids are famous because their meteor showers, or storms, can be, and have been in a few cases, among the most spectacular. Because of the superlative storm of 1833 and the recent developments in scientific thought of the time (see for example the identification of Halley's Comet) the Leonids have had a major effect on the development of the scientific study of meteors which had previously been thought to be atmospheric phenomena. The meteor storm of 1833 was of truly superlative strength. One estimate is over one hundred thousand meteors an hour,^[8] but another, done as the storm abated, estimated in excess of two hundred thousand meteors an hour^[1] over the entire region of North America east of the Rocky Mountains. It was marked by the Native Americans,^[9][10] slaves like Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass and slave-owners^[11][12] and others.^[13] Near Independence, Missouri, it was taken as a sign to push the growing Mormon community out of the area.^[14] The founder and first leader of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, noted in his journal that this event was a literal fulfillment of the word of God and a sure sign that the coming of Christ is close at hand.^[15] Denison Olmsted explained the event most accurately. After spending the last weeks of 1833 collecting information he presented his findings in January 1834 to the American Journal of Science and Arts, published in January–April 1834,^[16] and January 1836.^[17] He noted the shower was of short duration and was not seen in Europe, and that the meteors radiated from a point in the constellation of Leo and he speculated the meteors had originated from a cloud of particles in space.^[18] Accounts of the 1866 repeat of the Leonids counted hundreds per minute/a few thousand per hr in Europe.^[19] The Leonids were again seen in 1867, when moonlight reduced the rates to 1000 per hour. Another strong appearance of the Leonids in 1868 reached an intensity of 1000 per hour in dark skies. It was in 1866–67 that information on Comet Tempel-Tuttle was gathered pointing it out as the source of the meteor shower.^[18] When the storms failed to return in 1899, it was generally thought that the dust had moved on and storms were a thing of the past.
[edit] 1900s

Then, in 1966 a spectacular storm was seen over the Americas.^[20] Historical notes were gathered thus noting the Leonids back to 900AD.^[21] Radar studies showed the 1966 storm included a relatively high percentage of smaller particles while 1965's lower activity had a much higher proportion of larger particles. In 1981 Donald K. Yeomans of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory reviewed the history of meteor showers for the Leonids and the history of the dynamic orbit of Comet Tempel-Tuttle.^[22] A graph ^[23] from it was adapted and re-published in Sky and Telescope.^[24] It showed relative positions of the Earth and Tempel-Tuttle and marks where Earth encountered dense dust. This showed that the meteoroids are mostly behind and outside the path of the comet, but paths of the Earth through the cloud of particles resulting in powerful storms were very near paths of nearly no activity. But overall the 1998 Leonids were in a favorable position so interest was rising. Leading up to the 1998 return, an airborne observing campaign was organized to mobilize modern observing techniques by Peter Jenniskens at NASA Ames Research Center.^[25] There were also efforts to observe impacts of meteoroids, as an example of transient lunar phenomenon, on the Moon in 1999. A particular reason to observe the Moon is that our vantage from a location on Earth sees only meteors coming into the atmosphere relatively close to us while impacts on the Moon would be visible from across the Moon in a single view.^[26] A sodium tail of the Moon tripled just after the 1998 Leonid shower which was composed of larger meteoroids (which in the case of the Earth was witnessed as fireballs.)^[27] However in 1999 the sodium tail of the Moon did not change from the Leonid impacts. Research by Kondrat'eva, Reznikov and colleagues^[28] at Kazan University had shown how meteor storms could be accurately predicted but for some years the worldwide meteor community remained largely unaware of these results. The work of David J. Asher, Armagh Observatory and Robert H. McNaught, Siding Spring Observatory^[6] and independently by Esko Lyytinen^[29][30] in 1999, following on from the Kazan research, is considered by most meteor experts as the breakthrough in modern analysis of meteor storms. Whereas previously it was hazardous to guess if there would be a storm or little activity, the predictions of Asher and McNaught timed bursts in activity down to ten minutes by narrowing down the clouds of particles to individual streams from each passage of the comet, and their trajectories amended by subsequent passage near planets. However, whether a specific meteoroid trail will be primarily composed of small or large particles, and thus the relative brightness of the meteors, was not understood. But McNaught did extend the work to examine the placement of the Moon with trails and saw a large chance of a storm impacting in 1999 from a trail while there were less direct impacts from trails in 2000 and 2001 (successive contact with trails through 2006 showed no hits.)^[27]
[edit] 2000s

Viewing campaigns resulted in spectacular footage from the 1999, 2001 and 2002, storms producing up to 3,000 Leonid meteors per hour.^[25] Predictions for the Moon's Leonid impacts also noted that in 2000 the side of the Moon facing the stream was away from the Earth but that impacts should be in number enough to raise a cloud of particles kicked off the Moon by impacts would cause a detectable increase in the sodium tail of the Moon.^[27] Research using the explanation of meteor trails/streams have explained the storms of the past. The 1833 storm was not due to the recent passage of the comet, but from a direct impact with the previous 1800 dust trail.^[31] The meteoroids from the 1733 passage of Comet Tempel-Tuttle resulted in the 1866 storm^[32] and the 1966 storm was from the 1899 passage of the comet.^[33] The double spikes in Leonid activity in 2001 and in 2002 were due to the passage of the comet's dust ejected in 1767 and 1866.^[34] This ground breaking work was soon applied to other meteor showers – for example the 2004 June Bootids. Peter Jenniskens has published predictions for the next 50 years.^[35] However, a close encounter with Jupiter is expected to perturb the comet's path, and many streams, making storms of historic magnitude unlikely for many decades. Recent work tries to take into account the roles of differences in parent bodies and the specifics of their orbits, ejection velocities off the solid mass of the core of a comet, radiation pressure from the sun, the Poynting–Robertson effect, and the Yarkovsky effect on the particles of different sizes and rates of rotation to explain differences between meteor showers in terms of being predominantly fireballs or small meteors.^[7]

Edited by pleb, 29 January 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Lister]

Sorry I think I may have accidently hidden Mishaels post; my mistake.

I'm confused, where is this thread going? At first it seemed to be a preaching podium for Mishael (FYI this is a forum for discussion, not preaching) and now...? Mishael did you want to discuss or to preach? National Sunday Law?

True we've poked fun and I apologize, but then do you have a point to make? And that point is?

[Mishael]

Bleb, those meteor showers you referred to where a pathetic 16 or 17 per minute that hardly fits the description. Secondly when we are talking about meteor showers they must be from the point of view of earth and not space. I have personally witnessed one of those meteor showers and remember it fondly but they did not fit the analogy or simile of rain. You have zero evidence for your side.

Lister, I have been discussing the meteor shower phenomenon predicted in the Bible that brings credibility among other things to the Bible. The national Sunday law is a future event that has happened in the past and is predicted to happen in the future. I am bringing lines of evidence and discussing the evidence.

Edited by Mishael, 29 January 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[pleb]

the showers were more than a few a minute and if you had read the full article you would see that the complete details are known and understood, and have been for years, but your belief that it is a sign from god is so strong nothing will convince you other wise, your not interested in the truth only your religious dogma and blindness to anything that does not agree with your belief,
the showers have been studied for years and the path of the dust clouds that produce them,
,
im not sure where you live who you are but i suggest you actually get an education, and lose the blind faith in a mythical being and everything being a sign from God

religion has been described as a crutch for the mentally retarded, and i'm beginning to think after reading your diatribe that whoever coined the expression was correct, nothing you have produced or can produce is evidence of any supreme being just your blind belief,

Edited by pleb, 29 January 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[johnross47]

the showers were more than a few a minute and if you had read the full article you would see that the complete details are known and understood, and have been for years, but your belief that it is a sign from god is so strong nothing will convince you other wise, your not interested in the truth only your religious dogma and blindness to anything that does not agree with your belief,
the showers have been studied for years and the path of the dust clouds that produce them,
,
im not sure where you live who you are but i suggest you actually get an education, and lose the blind faith in a mythical being and everything being a sign from God

religion has been described as a crutch for the mentally retarded, and i'm beginning to think after reading your diatribe that whoever coined the expression was correct, nothing you have produced or can produce is evidence of any supreme being just your blind belief,

Nothing any religious believer can produce is any more than that. They can never prove their belief any more than an atheist can prove that some god doesn't exist. We can show that any specific well defined god is highly unlikely and for some, (most) definitions we can probably prove the idea to be incoherent, but an absolute proof that all possible definitions of god are impossible has not yet been produced as far as I know. (Partly because you could never generate or examine all possible definitions of gods.) When Shadowhawk asks you to prove God doesn't exist, ask him to define his god completely. Until he provides such a definition any attempt to examine his god's existence is futile. The same obviously goes for Mishael and the other believers.
I also repeat, if anybody out there knows Mishael, he needs help. That degree of detachment from reality and that extremity of violent fantastic belief is frightening. The multi coloured fonts are also a bit suspect.

[pleb]

the showers were more than a few a minute and if you had read the full article you would see that the complete details are known and understood, and have been for years, but your belief that it is a sign from god is so strong nothing will convince you other wise, your not interested in the truth only your religious dogma and blindness to anything that does not agree with your belief,
the showers have been studied for years and the path of the dust clouds that produce them,
,
im not sure where you live who you are but i suggest you actually get an education, and lose the blind faith in a mythical being and everything being a sign from God

religion has been described as a crutch for the mentally retarded, and i'm beginning to think after reading your diatribe that whoever coined the expression was correct, nothing you have produced or can produce is evidence of any supreme being just your blind belief,

Nothing any religious believer can produce is any more than that. They can never prove their belief any more than an atheist can prove that some god doesn't exist. We can show that any specific well defined god is highly unlikely and for some, (most) definitions we can probably prove the idea to be incoherent, but an absolute proof that all possible definitions of god are impossible has not yet been produced as far as I know. (Partly because you could never generate or examine all possible definitions of gods.) When Shadowhawk asks you to prove God doesn't exist, ask him to define his god completely. Until he provides such a definition any attempt to examine his god's existence is futile. The same obviously goes for Mishael and the other believers.
I also repeat, if anybody out there knows Mishael, he needs help. That degree of detachment from reality and that extremity of violent fantastic belief is frightening. The multi coloured fonts are also a bit suspect.

I agree, entirely, I'm not interested in proving there is no god, if someone wants to believe thats their choice but there are those who push their belief and ascertain there is a god, its for those people to provide proof that he exists,
and using common natural phenomena and saying that's proof is verging on the ignorant regarding the natural processes and scientific knowledge that are well documented,

Mishael's attitude is that of a Zealot, his use of coloured fonts and large letters that of a child perhaps an older child but child none the less, someone from a very religious household, which happens, he reminds me of a teenager who is convinced he is right and everyone else is wrong,

Edited by pleb, 29 January 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[Lister]

So we have a nonbeliever calling a believer mentally retarded and a believer calling a nonbeliever an idiot? I’m sorry, where’s the difference here?

To anyone with half a bowl of sense in this world it’s very obvious that the only fools are those that desperately cling to the hard lines. The position “There is absolutely no sense to religion, it’s all foolish” and “anyone who doesn’t believe is a fool” are the same thing!

Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

[pleb]

if your referring to my post ? i didn't say he was retarded, the quote i used has been around for a long time i simply stated that his attitude could make me consider that it may be true with regards to Mithael himself and not believers in general as i said i have no problem with those who wish to believe,
but his using natural phenomena, studies of which are fully proven and understood, and he still used that as proof there is a god that put his whole argument in the realms of fantasy,