21 replies to this topic

[JBForrester]

I had a horrible reaction to Rogaine that was suggested to me by a Doctor - dry, flaky, red, inflammed skin, and severe gauntness and dark undereye circles. It wasn't until after a guy who experienced similar reactions emailed me this (or you can google "Effect of lysyl hydroxylase inhibitor, minoxidil, on ultrastructure and behavior of cultured rabbit subconjunctival fibroblasts.":

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7672621

So, anybody have any suggestions to reverse collagen damage? Lol...

[JBForrester]

I'm actually surprised that nobody has commented on this thread yet. I posted it just to inform the community about possible rogaine effects on collagen, but perhaps it was already a well known fact? It'd be interesting to hear other what other people have to say.

[niner]

I'm actually surprised that nobody has commented on this thread yet. I posted it just to inform the community about possible rogaine effects on collagen, but perhaps it was already a well known fact? It'd be interesting to hear other what other people have to say.

We've got the whole thanksgiving/black friday thing going on in North America, so maybe that's suppressing posting. Anyway, this was done in cell culture, where cells were probably drenched in impossibly high concentrations of minoxidil for a long time. It's been used in millions of people, both orally and topically, and I've never heard of a problem with collagen production as a result of minoxidil. Your experience with it sounds like an allergic reaction. Were the effects permanent?

[JBForrester]

Oh right, thanks Niner. Forgot about Thanksgiving. I highly, highly doubt it was an allergic reaction. It's not a coincidence that there have been many reports similar to mine. If you just look a little, you'll find threads upon threads in hair forums dedicated to the bad skin and rogaine. Some report aging 10 years plus using the product for simply one year. Unfortunately, I didn't make the correlation that it was the rogaine because not many people make an association of hair products to skin problems - they just think it's part of aging, or stress. But for me, it started to look a bit unlikely that it was natural aging when I started looking like (excuse me for my political incorrectness) an AIDS patient in a matter of 3 months. My mom was shocked when she visited me and saw me, and was the one who suggested I stopped the Rogaine. I was on it for 5 months, and mind you I am female that was using the most potent dose, extra strength rogaine for men 2xday. So as for the permanency, I still have the dark circles (they are more like crevices than anything), and my skin is not as taught, springy, or youthful and bright as it used to be, especially the sides of the cheeks (the dryest parts were the first to suffer). My pores became very much enlarged in the process. I also don't think anybody who has had or reported such reactions to understand that it's a result of collagen loss - if I didn't, and I consider myself pretty well informed about skin, then I wouldn't imagine others wouldn't either.

So now I'm wondering if what has been done can be reversed, or what is defined as permanent. I know up until a certain age, your skin can recover rapidly, but at what age does it leave it's mark? Is collagen, once lost, impossible to regain, or does quick loss = quick recovery? Perhaps I should start a new thread just on that.

[niner]

You were using the high concentration topically on part of your scalp, and you had this skin deterioration on your face? Where was the flaky red inflamed skin? Was that at the site where you applied the minoxidil, or was that also on your face? The inflamed skin is the part that sounds like an allergic reaction. Were you by any chance using tretinoin at the same time?

[JBForrester]

No, I never used it on my face. However, considering the skin is one big connected organ and you are placing it on the scalp, I'd assume it could have an affect on any nearby areas. The extremely dry part was all over, in which my skin developed flesh colored bumps all over. Flakiness, however was mainly on the scalp area but at the same time my skin was parched to the point of dust-like flakes. The inflammation only occurred near my nose, eyes, and forehead. The main and most apparent issue was that there was a severe laxity and droopiness in the skin, making me look at least 10 years older, if not more, and extremely fatigued. No, I never used tretinoin then. The guy who sent me the link had the similar issues.

I first thought it could be a case of hypotension, considering I had low blood pressure to begin with, and minoxidil was originally used as a blood-pressure lowering drug.

[Picard]

When would you apply this? If you followed the recommended regimen, I assume you applied once in the morning and again before you sleep.

I would not be surprised if some of the medicine wound up on your pillow and then spread to the rest of the face. While systemic absorption is low, I suppose it could be an issue... Did you also have any issues with swelling elsewhere?

The formulation includes PPG, which is known to irritate skin in some users. Additionally, it helps slows the absorption of medicine, prolonging time in/on the skin.

[JBForrester]

When would you apply this? If you followed the recommended regimen, I assume you applied once in the morning and again before you sleep.

I would not be surprised if some of the medicine wound up on your pillow and then spread to the rest of the face. While systemic absorption is low, I suppose it could be an issue... Did you also have any issues with swelling elsewhere?

The formulation includes PPG, which is known to irritate skin in some users. Additionally, it helps slows the absorption of medicine, prolonging time in/on the skin.

Did you not see the study cited?

To answer your question, yes, I followed the recommended regimen. I'm not the type to experiment with products outside of recommendations.
And I do not sleep on my side, only on my back. So I would say that it would be well-nigh impossible for it to have spread on my pillow (and especially considering it was applied near my hairline).

Another problem was that the Dr. recommended a men's strength version, not to mention extra strength, which could have contributed. However, I would say that this would not be the main cause, considering many men have complained about similar issues as I have. Do look online if you don't believe me.

[nowayout]

People's skin does age, often coincidentally while they lose their hair.

[Picard]

Did you not see the study cited?

I would not be surprised if it does something to collagen in people, but I'm not sure what that something is.
Another study about collagen effects...

I'm familiar with people reporting side effects due to minoxidil. I've considered using it as well.

Edited by Picard, 30 November 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[JBForrester]

People's skin does age, often coincidentally while they lose their hair.

They don't age so rapidly in a matter of 4 months. To go from a vibrant 25 year old who looks around 20, to looking like you are about 40 with a serious illness, is not what I consider aging properly. I would post pictures but they are hideous. Luckily, my skin has bounced back, though not the the way it used to be.

[nowayout]

People's skin does age, often coincidentally while they lose their hair.

They don't age so rapidly in a matter of 4 months. To go from a vibrant 25 year old who looks around 20, to looking like you are about 40 with a serious illness, is not what I consider aging properly. I would post pictures but they are hideous. Luckily, my skin has bounced back, though not the the way it used to be.

Okay, but why are you suddenly losing hair as a woman at the age of 25? Maybe something else is behind both the hair loss and the skin problem.

I've noticed many men seem to get saggy skin when they start balding, even when they don't use minoxidil.

Edited by viveutvivas, 30 November 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Picard]

Okay, but why are you suddenly losing hair as a woman at the age of 25? Maybe something else is behind both the hair loss and the skin problem.

There may be something to this. I'm also curious why the female version is a lower concentration. It begs the question of why the higher potency wasn't pursued.

Regardless, I do empathize with your situation. Micronized sucralfate sounds interesting in theory...

"Increases PGE2 (like minoxidil)

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1793036

Increases nitric oxide thus providing vasodilation and blood flow (again like minoxidil)


http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1612113
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8578200

Suppresses the apoptotic events propagated by caspase-3. Caspase-3 is the direct cause of programmed hair cell death (apoptosis)


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10210150

Is angiogenic, elevates bFGF and protects it from degradation


http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1719945

Increases TGF alpha and PDGF specific receptor binding. bFGF, TGF alpha and PDGF are endogenous substances that increase hair growth


http://dermatology.cdlib.org/D.../original/jankovi.html"

Odd Findings:

"Increases EGF receptor expression
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9881512

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1283137"

These studies were sourced from another forum.

[1kgcoffee]

It's a commonly reported side effect, that minoxidil is terrible for skin. It might not be reversible, but you could try hyaluronic acid, lysine, vitamin C and copper peptides. For topicals, maybe tamanu oil.

[JohnD60]

FWIW, I have used 5% minoxidil for years on the crown of my head twice a day and have very good collagen production for a 52 year old

[JBForrester]

Okay, but why are you suddenly losing hair as a woman at the age of 25? Maybe something else is behind both the hair loss and the skin problem.

I've noticed many men seem to get saggy skin when they start balding, even when they don't use minoxidil.

My apologies for the confusion, I failed to mention in the first post that I had used the Rogaine because of a chunk of hair near my hairline that had been ripped from my head when I was 14, which had caused a bald spot, not because of natural hair loss. I went to a hair transplant specialist for the possibility of fixing this via hair transplants, but he recommended that I use rogaine first to see if hair would come back.

So, to answer your assumption, I wasn't getting a receding hairline at the age of 25. I was (and am) actually very healthy hair-wise.

[JBForrester]

It's a commonly reported side effect, that minoxidil is terrible for skin. It might not be reversible, but you could try hyaluronic acid, lysine, vitamin C and copper peptides. For topicals, maybe tamanu oil.

Thank you for the tips, 1kgcoffee. I've tried hyaluronic acid, which seems to have improved my skin slightly. I just started peptides (not sure if there are different types of skin peptides), but I've heard that you can't overuse them as they can eventually do more damage than good, so I need to find out how often or how little I should use them. I briefly used CE Ferulic, which did wonders, but the cost of it was a bit out of my budget. Tamanu oil and lysine I will have to try. I've also read about DHEA facial creams, but I am a bit hesitant on that considering it's absorption can cause changes hormonally.

Wish it were reversible. Maybe considering fillers or PRP injections as an alternative, as it supposedly rebuilds collagen.

There may be something to this. I'm also curious why the female version is a lower concentration. It begs the question of why the higher potency wasn't pursued.

Regardless, I do empathize with your situation. Micronized sucralfate sounds interesting in theory...

"Increases PGE2 (like minoxidil)

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1793036

Increases nitric oxide thus providing vasodilation and blood flow (again like minoxidil)

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1612113
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8578200

Suppresses the apoptotic events propagated by caspase-3. Caspase-3 is the direct cause of programmed hair cell death (apoptosis)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10210150

Is angiogenic, elevates bFGF and protects it from degradation

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1719945

Increases TGF alpha and PDGF specific receptor binding. bFGF, TGF alpha and PDGF are endogenous substances that increase hair growth

http://dermatology.c...al/jankovi.html"

Odd Findings:

"Increases EGF receptor expression
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9881512

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1283137"

These studies were sourced from another forum.

Picard, can you summarize these into laymen terms?

[JBForrester]

Could loss of collagen, or decrease in skin barrier function decrease our telomeres?

[evasoo]

JBForrester I registered here just hoping you are still around. I,m a 42 years old woman I,ve allways look like 5/7 years younger than muy real age. I allways had a nice skin and full face with a lot of babyfat. I,ve been using rogaine for three years in the hair line. I stoped a year ago, when one day I barely could recognize me at the mirrow. I,ve got big pores, black eyerings (this are gone fortunately) but the worst thing for me is the severe lost of fat in my face. This made my nice cheeckbones dissapear and left me with market nasolabialds folds. I was so desperated that I gained 7 kg weight (eating more) but muy face is still the same, I,m affraid rogaine gave me a kind of fat atrophy.
Please JBforrester did your facial gauntness improved by this time??
Sorry about my English, I,m writing from spain.

[Qowpel]

JBForrester I registered here just hoping you are still around. I,m a 42 years old woman I,ve allways look like 5/7 years younger than muy real age. I allways had a nice skin and full face with a lot of babyfat. I,ve been using rogaine for three years in the hair line. I stoped a year ago, when one day I barely could recognize me at the mirrow. I,ve got big pores, black eyerings (this are gone fortunately) but the worst thing for me is the severe lost of fat in my face. This made my nice cheeckbones dissapear and left me with market nasolabialds folds. I was so desperated that I gained 7 kg weight (eating more) but muy face is still the same, I,m affraid rogaine gave me a kind of fat atrophy.
Please JBforrester did your facial gauntness improved by this time??
Sorry about my English, I,m writing from spain.

The most important thing to do at this time for you is to start a good sunscreen daily. The sun is the number one ager of the skin..... sunscreen is literally the best thing you can do for your skin especially in the boat you are in right now......

 

Next best thing would be skinceuticals CE ferulic acid for collagen production

I have heard great thing about soy isoflavones for skin.

 

Oat beta gucans topically applied to the skin seem promising as well.

 

Amlactin lotion MAY reverse some skin sagging.

 

Lycopene found in tomato paste is shown to increase procollagen levels in the skin AND help prevent some sun damage.

 

Pycnogenol seems to be good for the skin as well at 90 milligrams/day

 

Lutein in doses of 20 mg a day is known to increase skin hydration which helps with skin appearance AND elasticity.

 

Hyaluronic acid capsules at about 150 mg a day will very likely show good results in you too but NOT as much as a few months of CE ferulic acid and sunscreen in the long run.

 

Astaxanthin helps to prevent sun damage and seems good for the skin as well.

 

If I were you, the TOP things I would be looking into right now would be a non nano High % (more than 18%) zinc oxide sunscreen.... Because sunlight (even on cloudy days and during the winter, basically whenever) destroys not only collagen BUT elastin AND the fat layer beneath your skin..... on top of that I would start using skinceuticals ce ferulic serum.

 

And third, I would use  the Great Lakes Geatin (in the green can not the red one...you will find it online)

 

 

 

Great lakes gelatin seems like a great way to increase collagen production and to protect your current collagen levels.

[evasoo]

Qowpel I,m really grateful for the effort and the time you spent answering and advicing me. I find easy todo use sunscreen , and I think is really important. I,m sure skinceuticals ferulic acid is great for the skin but honestly I don,t think it would be able to make muy subcutaneous face fat come back.. I,ll try to buy the great lake gelatin althought I,m seeing is not easy to ship it to spain. I,ve tried to boost muy collagen production with vitamin c (in serums 20%) and oral 3 gr. Dayly and lisine/proline. I exercisiced to get the minox out of my body . I eat healthy and take several detox /antoxidants like selenium/ Alpha lipoic acid etc..But my face is not coming back. I readed once a testimony from a guy that losted the fat un his face during rogaine use (whithout loosing body weight), and he said that two years later his fat come back)
I wish I were so lucky. But I don,t know. I just know it,s horrible a drug that is supposed todo help your beauty ( the hair) could disfigure you. Sadly ironic.
Thanks for your support.

[Qowpel]

Qowpel I,m really grateful for the effort and the time you spent answering and advicing me. I find easy todo use sunscreen , and I think is really important. I,m sure skinceuticals ferulic acid is great for the skin but honestly I don,t think it would be able to make muy subcutaneous face fat come back.. I,ll try to buy the great lake gelatin althought I,m seeing is not easy to ship it to spain. I,ve tried to boost muy collagen production with vitamin c (in serums 20%) and oral 3 gr. Dayly and lisine/proline. I exercisiced to get the minox out of my body . I eat healthy and take several detox /antoxidants like selenium/ Alpha lipoic acid etc..But my face is not coming back. I readed once a testimony from a guy that losted the fat un his face during rogaine use (whithout loosing body weight), and he said that two years later his fat come back)
I wish I were so lucky. But I don,t know. I just know it,s horrible a drug that is supposed todo help your beauty ( the hair) could disfigure you. Sadly ironic.
Thanks for your support.

 

ce ferulic serum is good because it increases collagen production and makes your skin significantly more resistant to sun damage (approximately spf 8)

 

 

don't fret too bad.  We also have Juvess skin cream which contain topical carnosine (to prevent glycation of skin), liquid beta glucans, and copper peptides. We have one user who said that it caused similar effects to that of a mini face lift.

 

Secondly, there ARE products that can increase subcutaneous fat but only while you are using them.

 

The one I use (since I have a hollow upper face), is isosensuals cream (which contains the active ingredient voluplus. I certainly see a bit more fullness in my upper cheeks using this twice daily for a few months.

 

There are also creams that use 100% volufilline, which is another product that seems to increase subcutaneous fat cell storage.

 

Also, apparently including more polyunsaturated fats in one's diet increases the expression/swelling of subcutaneous fat. I forget where the study is. To be honest, whenever I increase my polyunsaturated fat consumption to about 20-30 grams a day, my face fills out a bit more, I have before and after photos at the same weight to prove it. It isn't much, but it is there.

Edited by Qowpel, 19 July 2015 - 10:59 PM.