16 replies to this topic

[JBForrester]

For those of you who are stuck in their rooms on the internet, a word of warning:


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121111153935.htm



I wonder how this would effect those who have been intermittently exposed to social isolation during their adolescent to teenage years? Really, how plastic is the brain?

It says that reintegration into a social climate can reproduce myelin again, but would someone actually be able to get back to their original state pre-isolation? I have my doubts...

[Mind]

This paper reveals that the stress of social isolation disrupts the sequence in which the myelin-making cells, the oligodendrocytes, are formed.

I wonder if this result can be generalized to many/all forms of emotional/psychological stress? It is widely known in the epidemilogical research that many forms of acute and chronic stress is linked with many poor health results/outcomes.

[megatron]

For those of you who are stuck in their rooms on the internet, a word of warning:


http://www.scienceda...21111153935.htm


I wonder how this would effect those who have been intermittently exposed to social isolation during their adolescent to teenage years? Really, how plastic is the brain?

It says that reintegration into a social climate can reproduce myelin again, but would someone actually be able to get back to their original state pre-isolation? I have my doubts...

Damn, then I'm in the danger zone! Well I'm not completely isolated; I visit friends maybe twice every other week and occasionally hit the city. Though I have to say, I really shun social gatherings. When I'm drunk I go crazy though. I have finally made an appointment with the doctor to check for low aldosterone levels. I suspect I may have adrenal insufficiency / fatigue, or maybe just very low aldosterone levels. I think that may actually cause social shyness.

Edited by Megatrone, 26 November 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[JBForrester]

Hmm... I'm not sure what comes first, the social isolation, the ill health, or the emotional stress? I'm sure it's all intertwined, but I can attest to the fact that social isolation does indeed do something to the body and mind, making it function in a less productive way. I think the point that they are making is that regardless of your emotional issues, self-imposed social isolation will actually exacerbate your problem rather than fix them. Unfortunately, some people with mental or emotional problems don't seek out the proper support networks, which may have induced their emotional behaviors in the first place. It's cyclical; like refusing to go outside to get a tan because you are afraid to show your pale skin - you will never get a tan if you never show your skin.

I'm pretty sure theirs a correlation to an increase in the amygdala and social isolation. Same effect.

Wonder if there's a correlation between social isolation and MS? Or am I jumping too far?

[JBForrester]

Damn, then I'm in the danger zone! Well I'm not completely isolated; I visit friends maybe twice every other week and occasionally hit the city. Though I have to say, I really shun social gatherings. When I'm drunk I go crazy though. I have finally made an appointment with the doctor to check for low aldosterone levels. I suspect I may have adrenal insufficiency / fatigue, or maybe just very low aldosterone levels. I think that may actually cause social shyness.

I really do think it's a cycle. Lack of energy is from lack of socializing, and lack of socializing is from lack of energy. Plus hours of internet can change the brain, too.

I was shy all my life, and perhaps the most isolated of all my peers - I grew up on an island and commuted to school 2 hours away, every day, for 12 years. It wasn't until I was 22 that I took a job in retail - where socializing is enforced - that I saw a complete change in my personality, energy, and determination. I'm back to square one, though. Personal choice/habit, though. And after reading this article, I think I'm going to try my best to change. I just hope after turning 26 that this doesn't mean my brain is in a permanent state. Guess it doesn't hurt to try!

[alecnevsky]

I thought this article was about forced depressive-like states (e.g., law school,) not about self-imposed "introvert time." Seeking society in debilitating environments could be more cognitively worse than living alone productively for some desired time.

Edited by alecnevsky, 27 November 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[JBForrester]

Seeking society in debilitating environments could be more cognitively worse than living alone productively for some desired time.

I think this article is about both - even though they did force the mice into isolation (forced), the mice in the end chose not to socialize after a certain period of time alone (self-imposed). But at the same time, self-imposed isolation is fear-forced in a way.

How would "seeking society in debilitating environments" be cognitively worst? There's a reason why we have the term, "Cabit Fever". Isolating yourself just makes you more less socially adept, and really, those who can socially survive in "debilitating environments" (you'll have to give me the example you had in mind), such as an unsafe neighborhood, or an unstable family home, will fair much better than those who choose to do nothing. Locking yourself in your room for hours or days, without seeking friendships or proper support networks is unrealistic and unwise. I did the former (isolated), thinking I would get a lot of work done, and instead, I can say that I've never been so unproductive in my entire life. People and socializing provide variation, which is key for brain health.

Maybe you'll have to explain what you were referring to a bit more.

Edited by JBForrester, 27 November 2012 - 02:51 AM.

[alecnevsky]

self-imposed isolation is fear-forced in a way.

Is this psychology or something?

Example: If you actively seek society in an environment where your friends do keg stands as a pastime, you would presumably be exposed to some alcohol toxicity and brain damage in the long term. I don't think we have the same contexts or definitions of isolation in mind (with you ascribing to it something involuntary and harmful.)

The article makes a solid argument (from what I skimmed over,) but its conclusions are predicated on a forced depressive-like state, not being isolated--physically removed from phenomenal "society." It is obvious (or at least suggested,) in this case, that forced isolation had caused this particular depressive-like state in the rat, but it says nothing about all isolation (including voluntary, if you can afford that conception) necessarily leading to a depressive-like state. So, it's not very accurate to presume that all isolation leads to cognitive impairment, but you can do that if you like.

Edited by alecnevsky, 27 November 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Marios Kyriazis]

People who spend large parts of their life in front of a computer (meaning 'online' ) should not be classed as socially isolated. This is because when we are members of virtual, online communities (such as discussion forums or MMORPGs) we continue being stimulated, and we use social and neuro-cognitive skills similar to those we use in real life. These prevent loss of neurons, and loss of myelin. Not only that, but we should try and find ways to INCREASE our time online, in order to increase the amount of cognitive information reaching and stimulating the brain.

Edited by mrszeta, 27 November 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[Raza]

People who spend large parts of their life in front of a computer (meaning 'online' ) should not be classed as socially isolated. This is because when we are members of virtual, online communities (such as discussion forums or MMORPGs) we continue being stimulated, and we use social and neuro-cognitive skills similar to those we use in real life. These prevent loss of neurons, and loss of myelin. Not only that, but we should try and find ways to INCREASE our time online, in order to increase the amount of cognitive information reaching and stimulating the brain.

It could, but you don't know that.

People have mechanisms for connecting face-to-face that don't work online. 'Same ones that switch to 'off' in autism, mostly. Using those parts of your brain strengthens them, neglecting them weakens them.

I'd suggest varying your social intake, for happiness and brain growth alike.

[RJ100]

This paper reveals that the stress of social isolation disrupts the sequence in which the myelin-making cells, the oligodendrocytes, are formed.

But what if social isolation isn't a stress? I enjoy it.

[hippocampus]

I thought this article was about forced depressive-like states (e.g., law school,) not about self-imposed "introvert time." Seeking society in debilitating environments could be more cognitively worse than living alone productively for some desired time.

I agree. Socializing with wrong people may not be a good thing. Social support is a very good predictor of cardiovascular health, though (if I recall correctly, there was some article on Scientific American that said that it's even better predictor than smoking!).

http://en.wikipedia....Physical_Health

Edited by hippocampus, 27 November 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[JBForrester]

I agree. Socializing with wrong people may not be a good thing. Social support is a very good predictor of cardiovascular health, though (if I recall correctly, there was some article on Scientific American that said that it's even better predictor than smoking!).

http://en.wikipedia....Physical_Health

Adapting to or imitating behavior of certain groups or mindsets may not indeed be a good thing, but I think if we had a long-term choice, we'd fair way better socializing (like you cited with wiki) - which isn't the same as participating in - than isolating ourselves.

To quote alecnevsky, I think you could get away with going to a party with kegs and not drinking. I can attest to that as I did it frequently in high school and college (when I did socialize) since I've abstained from alcohol for the majority of my life. Socializing with drunk people isn't exactly my kind of fun, but it beats staying inside and staring at a white beaming screen (though I might choose a book over a keg party). And also, you sometimes find the rare gems at those scenes who have the same mindset as you. It's amazing what people you can meet and find if you just "show up".

[Sun]

She adds, however, that the research also showed that myelin production went back to normal after a period of social integration, suggesting that environmental intervention was sufficient to reverse the negative consequences of adult social isolation

[JBForrester]

These prevent loss of neurons, and loss of myelin.

I'd love to see the studies on that.

Not only that, but we should try and find ways to INCREASE our time online, in order to increase the amount of cognitive information reaching and stimulating the brain.

Are you actually endorsing something in which you've offered no proof in clinical studies?

[alecnevsky]

I think I may have confused "solitude" with "isolation." JB, you're probably right, or not wrong, by looking at isolation as inherently forced (whether self-imposed or otherwise.) Isolation, as I intuitively understood it, just meant to me being physically remote from sentient beings of similar kind for prolonged periods of time, whether forced or not is a variable. Additionally, "prolonged period of time" is a variable too. Damn words.

I still think that it is only forced movement from society into solitary confinement that has devastating effects on the brain, never mind myelin. There was a documentary on youtube of a man who lived in Patagonia alone for 40 years, isolated physically, but seemingly not in a depressed-state. Although, who knows what's the benchmark for a "depressed state." It seems though as if he would not be diagnosed by modern medicine anyway. Or, maybe, he would just in virtue of living alone for 40 years. Ha! #modern medicine.


Edit: If this guy has less Myelin, then I'm sold.

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 November 2012 - 08:40 PM.

[Marios Kyriazis]

Not only that, but we should try and find ways to INCREASE our time online, in order to increase the amount of cognitive information reaching and stimulating the brain.

Are you actually endorsing something in which you've offered no proof in clinical studies?

Yes, I am endorsing this, but I didn't realise I had to provide academic references in a chat forum. In any case, these are some general clinical studies showing that online training improves cognitive parameters:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22912609
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22065763
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21927781
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21917741
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21674392

There is quite a substantial body of research showing that increased cognitive stimulation (both real and virtual) has a positive impact on brain anatomy and on the body as a whole.