45 replies to this topic

[gray.bot]

It's not a lot of choline if you are sucking it up with the noots... Also...

Different people react differently to choline. I can take 1500mg of choline and 1500 ALCAR plus with an AchE inhibitor and be fine. But give me anything that creates dopamine and I'm off my face (in a very, very good way)

To elaborate on Pyritinol. Get it. Take it. Take it with fat. Even though it's not 'fat soluble' (supposedly) I find it absolutely rocks me when taken with a bit of fat. Apply liberally, as you would a sunscreen on a bikini models chest. 500mg 3 times daily should be fine.

I'm gonna rock the boat a bit here because in the couple of weeks I've been here I think I have seen like 20 threads on 'piracetam isn't working for me' and it's kinda lame.

SCREW THE RACETAMS. GET SOME REAL NOOTROPICS.

This is directly at the OP!

Hit this shiz up:

2 x strong b vitamin complex
2grams ALCAR
500mg Pyritinol
1gram Sulbutiamine

Take once at 6am, 11am and 4pm.

Prepare for awesomeness.

For reference, also take Sulbutiamine with fat.

[samiamm]

"apply liberally like you would sunscreen on a bikini model's chest"

lmao, I died when I read that. I'm going to look into what you told me, but one thing, I was already taking sulbutiamine, but only 200 mg a day, as I heard anything over that was too much. It cost me like 90 dollars for 100 gs, and I threw away about 90 of them. :( (I know don't flame me) I'll look into what you told me.



Thanks for all your replies everyone, you guys are awesome!! You don't know how much I appreciate the help!

[LBGSHI]

It's not a lot of choline if you are sucking it up with the noots... Also...

Different people react differently to choline. I can take 1500mg of choline and 1500 ALCAR plus with an AchE inhibitor and be fine. But give me anything that creates dopamine and I'm off my face (in a very, very good way)

To elaborate on Pyritinol. Get it. Take it. Take it with fat. Even though it's not 'fat soluble' (supposedly) I find it absolutely rocks me when taken with a bit of fat. Apply liberally, as you would a sunscreen on a bikini models chest. 500mg 3 times daily should be fine.

I'm gonna rock the boat a bit here because in the couple of weeks I've been here I think I have seen like 20 threads on 'piracetam isn't working for me' and it's kinda lame.

SCREW THE RACETAMS. GET SOME REAL NOOTROPICS.

This is directly at the OP!

Hit this shiz up:

2 x strong b vitamin complex
2grams ALCAR
500mg Pyritinol
1gram Sulbutiamine

Take once at 6am, 11am and 4pm.

Prepare for awesomeness.

For reference, also take Sulbutiamine with fat.

You say "Get some real nootropics", then recommend B vitamins, a choline source, a vitamin B6 analog, and a dopaminergic? Not impressed.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[samiamm]

@LBGSHI


they prescribe pyritinol for cognitive defects and learning disabilities, right?

[LBGSHI]

@LBGSHI


they prescribe pyritinol for cognitive defects and learning disabilities, right?

Absolutely; it has been shown to improve reaction time, but not to improve memory or comprehension. However, it certainly doesn't classify as more of a "real nootropic" than the 'racetams, which have been shown to cause much more significant effects, and were, after all, the reason for the word 'nootropic' to be coined in the first place

Edited by LBGSHI, 12 December 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[samiamm]

Yeah, racetams are the only compounds i've read actual studies on, and they seem promising, but piracetam didn't do anything for me :(


I just hope I find my stack soon!!

[gray.bot]

@LBGSHI

I've settled on the broader definition of nootropics to avoid endless arguments about it.

Nootropics, also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration. 1 (wikipedia)

Funniest thing ever - people call modafinil a nootropic (and I do too out of sheer laziness) but real nootropics are meant to have practically perfect safety data... ie you can take more piracetam in mg/kg's than you can NaCl, which isdamn safe!... but you cannot take too much modafinil. I think if you ever took even 5 or 10 mgs/kg you would probably die or have serious issues.

So yes I agree it would be great if everyone used words correctly, but to most people (interested in life extension) if you say vitamin B6 analog or dopaminergic they just get confused, whereas most would understand nootropic.

P.S. Functional foods? lol...

[LBGSHI]

@LBGSHI

I've settled on the broader definition of nootropics to avoid endless arguments about it.

Nootropics, also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration. 1 (wikipedia)

Funniest thing ever - people call modafinil a nootropic (and I do too out of sheer laziness) but real nootropics are meant to have practically perfect safety data... ie you can take more piracetam in mg/kg's than you can NaCl, which isdamn safe!... but you cannot take too much modafinil. I think if you ever took even 5 or 10 mgs/kg you would probably die or have serious issues.

So yes I agree it would be great if everyone used words correctly, but to most people (interested in life extension) if you say vitamin B6 analog or dopaminergic they just get confused, whereas most would understand nootropic.

P.S. Functional foods? lol...

I prefer the course of, "If it comes to pass, everyone can be incorrect, and I will continue to be correct'. But then, I don't mind standing alone

Functional foods, according to Wikipedia: "Functional food is a food where a new ingredient(s) (or more of an existing ingredient) has been added to a food and the new product has an additional function (often one related to health-promotion or disease prevention)."

...though it does sound funny as a term. Also, the above sentence from Wikipedia is badly composed, and wouldn't pass muster in any English class I've taken. "Functional food is a food where a new ingredient has been added to a food"? Come on...

Edited by LBGSHI, 13 December 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[pushpull]

re Choline, I think I am starting to really believe in people reacting differently to different Choline sources:
I've been messing around for 1 month with Aniracetam & Piracetam, going up and down in both racetam- & Choline sources, and mostly only experienced drowsiness, brain fog and fatigue. Posted a bunch of threads asking for input on the matters here.

Originally I was testing CDP Choline & Choline bitartrate, then I purchased Alpha GPC and did 2x300mg the first day. This gave me a depressive episode out of the blue so I dropped Alpha GPC right away.

Then I started thinking that since Alpha GPC was the only Choline source giving me depression it might just mean it's the only source that's really working for me, only I was doing too much. So yesterday and today I've done 2x100mg Alpha GPC along with 2x800mg Aniracetam & 2x800mg Piracetam. No drowsiness, no brain fog, no depression! So far it looks like a major step forward, although I'll play around with this for a few more days then make a new thread summarizing my experiences so far. But it kinda makes sense: My first 3 days on Aniracetam was awesome, then I probably drained my Choline and got foggy, and CDP Choline / Choline bitartrate wasn't doing the job for me.

Bottom line, seems like it might be worth trying out different Choline sources and dosages

[LBGSHI]

re Choline, I think I am starting to really believe in people reacting differently to different Choline sources:
I've been messing around for 1 month with Aniracetam & Piracetam, going up and down in both racetam- & Choline sources, and mostly only experienced drowsiness, brain fog and fatigue. Posted a bunch of threads asking for input on the matters here.

Originally I was testing CDP Choline & Choline bitartrate, then I purchased Alpha GPC and did 2x300mg the first day. This gave me a depressive episode out of the blue so I dropped Alpha GPC right away.

Then I started thinking that since Alpha GPC was the only Choline source giving me depression it might just mean it's the only source that's really working for me, only I was doing too much. So yesterday and today I've done 2x100mg Alpha GPC along with 2x800mg Aniracetam & 2x800mg Piracetam. No drowsiness, no brain fog, no depression! So far it looks like a major step forward, although I'll play around with this for a few more days then make a new thread summarizing my experiences so far. But it kinda makes sense: My first 3 days on Aniracetam was awesome, then I probably drained my Choline and got foggy, and CDP Choline / Choline bitartrate wasn't doing the job for me.

Bottom line, seems like it might be worth trying out different Choline sources and dosages

I definitely agree. Thanks for sharing that, by the way. The more anecdotal experience with various choline sources and doses, the better.

[Half Life]

re Choline, I think I am starting to really believe in people reacting differently to different Choline sources:
I've been messing around for 1 month with Aniracetam & Piracetam, going up and down in both racetam- & Choline sources, and mostly only experienced drowsiness, brain fog and fatigue. Posted a bunch of threads asking for input on the matters here.

Originally I was testing CDP Choline & Choline bitartrate, then I purchased Alpha GPC and did 2x300mg the first day. This gave me a depressive episode out of the blue so I dropped Alpha GPC right away.

Then I started thinking that since Alpha GPC was the only Choline source giving me depression it might just mean it's the only source that's really working for me, only I was doing too much. So yesterday and today I've done 2x100mg Alpha GPC along with 2x800mg Aniracetam & 2x800mg Piracetam. No drowsiness, no brain fog, no depression! So far it looks like a major step forward, although I'll play around with this for a few more days then make a new thread summarizing my experiences so far. But it kinda makes sense: My first 3 days on Aniracetam was awesome, then I probably drained my Choline and got foggy, and CDP Choline / Choline bitartrate wasn't doing the job for me.

Bottom line, seems like it might be worth trying out different Choline sources and dosages

Thanks for sharing that.I've been using Bacopa 2x500mg daily. When I first started using Alpha GPC (2x300mg) i've also suffered from the same undesirable effects for the first few days; brain fog, drowsiness, and also irritability when I introduced Piracetam (2x800mg). So tommorow I will lower the dosage to 2x100mg Alpha GPC and see what happens.

[Sun Nootropic]

:P

That's almost 1.5g of Choline Bitartrate a day! Isn't that a lot?? I only stay away from taking choline so often due to how often I've read and heard about using it too frequently causing depression or mood "de-elevators" which in my line of work is certainly not needed. haha

Maybe you are right about choline, anyway, people differs.
and you guys should work out your own stack, that`s the best way.
and what stack have you experienced that had great effect, or acute side effect

[pushpull]

Hey,

re Choline, I think I am starting to really believe in people reacting differently to different Choline sources:
I've been messing around for 1 month with Aniracetam & Piracetam, going up and down in both racetam- & Choline sources, and mostly only experienced drowsiness, brain fog and fatigue. Posted a bunch of threads asking for input on the matters here.

Originally I was testing CDP Choline & Choline bitartrate, then I purchased Alpha GPC and did 2x300mg the first day. This gave me a depressive episode out of the blue so I dropped Alpha GPC right away.

Then I started thinking that since Alpha GPC was the only Choline source giving me depression it might just mean it's the only source that's really working for me, only I was doing too much. So yesterday and today I've done 2x100mg Alpha GPC along with 2x800mg Aniracetam & 2x800mg Piracetam. No drowsiness, no brain fog, no depression! So far it looks like a major step forward, although I'll play around with this for a few more days then make a new thread summarizing my experiences so far. But it kinda makes sense: My first 3 days on Aniracetam was awesome, then I probably drained my Choline and got foggy, and CDP Choline / Choline bitartrate wasn't doing the job for me.

Bottom line, seems like it might be worth trying out different Choline sources and dosages

Thanks for sharing that.I've been using Bacopa 2x500mg daily. When I first started using Alpha GPC (2x300mg) i've also suffered from the same undesirable effects for the first few days; brain fog, drowsiness, and also irritability when I introduced Piracetam (2x800mg). So tommorow I will lower the dosage to 2x100mg Alpha GPC and see what happens.

I think it's still kinda early to say 100 % certain, but this looks good so far. Earlier I went down to micro-dosing 100mg Aniracetam with 100-500mg CDP Choline / Choline bitartrate and got really drowsy. 2 hours ago I did 100mg Alpha GPC, had a cup of coffee and waited 30 min for the Alpha GPC to set in, then did 800mg Aniracetam & 1600mg Piracetam. No drowsiness and no brain fog so far. This is my third day going up to more common Aniracetam & Piracetam dosages without fatigue, brain fog and such side-effects. The CDP Choline & Choline bitartrate I got is from reliable vendors so the quality should be fine. To me it just seems like Alpha GPC is the only Choline source that works.

I might as well add that nicotine in combination with racetams still seems to be a bad combination. I've been using a nicotine source called snus that is common in northern Europe for years. Taking snus makes me feel like I have a mild flu, same if I smoke a cigarette.. so this is obviously a habit I need to kick once and for all. Although that's not really a bad thing

I will make a new informational thread to summarize my experiences when I can conclude this actually works. Anyway I'd still like to encourage thread starter and others to take testing various Choline sources & dosages more seriously than I personally did in the beginning. It might be just what you need to stop being a non-responder.

Edited by pushpull, 14 December 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[gray.bot]

What are your views on PHOSPHATIDYL CHOLINE gentlemen?

My understanding is that it is a premium source of choline... PC > Alpha GPC > Bitartrate

I've never taken it, but I don't seem to have any issues at all with brain fog or choline deficiency symptoms.

Could a higher quality choline source reduce or remove the problems you are experiencing?

Even, could it help the OP with his Piracetam issue? By using PC as the choline source?

[Sanguine_Rogue]

What are your views on PHOSPHATIDYL CHOLINE gentlemen?

My understanding is that it is a premium source of choline... PC > Alpha GPC > Bitartrate

I've never taken it, but I don't seem to have any issues at all with brain fog or choline deficiency symptoms.

Could a higher quality choline source reduce or remove the problems you are experiencing?

Even, could it help the OP with his Piracetam issue? By using PC as the choline source?

Phosphatidyl Choline is a new one to me, I'm going to be checking into it to see how all it differs with AGPC.

Maybe you are right about choline, anyway, people differs.
and you guys should work out your own stack, that`s the best way.
and what stack have you experienced that had great effect, or acute side effect

My current stack has been working great with helping combat brain fog, and allow a smoother recall of items that I am learning.

• Piracetam 3-4 x 800mg vcaps
• Aniracetam 2-3 x 750mg vcaps
• Pramiracetam 1-2 x 300mg vcaps
• Sulbutiamine 2-3 x 250mg vcaps
• Choline Bitartrate 310mg vcap every other day
• L-Theanine 1 x 200mg vcaps

[zorba990]

I used 2000mg Phosphatidyl choline with 250mg Calcium Pantothenate (B5 cofactor) in the late 80's for finals. It worked well and reduced my time to memorize down by by quite a bit - probably at least half. Piracetam makes me sleepy and very demotivated - I didn't notice any positive effects. I've used alcar with allthiamine and I find it motivating and memory/task enhancing. Haven't tried Pyritinol...