2 replies to this topic

[RealBillPerry]

Hi all.

The person who introduced me to the nootropic concept is someone whose judgment I trust, so I saved up tip money from the job I had at the time and bought some of each of the following:

Piracetam (Serious Nutrition Solutions brand)
Choline Bitartrate (Nature's Way brand at first, but now using bulk powder from Purebulk.com)
Alcar (Jarrow Formulas, 500mg caps)
Vinpocetine(Source Naturals,10mg tabs)
Magnesium L-Threonate (LifeExtension, 144mg)
Omega-3 (Nature's Bounty Fish Oil, 1290mG per cap if I remember correctly)

Now, I've done that whole stack before, but didn't really go beyond stage 3 or 4 of dual N-Back Training.
I then fell off the wagon for a bit. I decided recently to get back into it, so this past saturday afternoon, I took 1/8tsp of Piracetam and 1/4tsp of choline powder mixed into a shot bottle of Red Rain energy drink (5-Hour Energy knockoff). If I figured right, this should be a 2:1 ratio of Choline to Pira.

After 20-30-minutes, I noticed that my thinking was noticeably different. I felt a little "hyper in the brain". I was working on helping a friend move a website for a hosting client of his to our web server. I noticed that it became increasingly more difficult to be able to multitask.

As long as I was working on just moving the website, it was fine at first, but my wife came in and started telling me things about what needed to be done around the house, people she'd talked to, etc. And THAT was way too much. It became impossible for me to focus on either her or the work I was doing, so I stopped the work so I could pay attention to her long enough. Then it took me 2-3 minutes after she left for me to remember what I was doing. I had to literally ask my friend "What was I doing?" and he had to remind me which steps I was on for my part of the process.

As time drew on, I felt myself becoming more and more "empty" inside. It felt like I was depressed or brooding to the max. Hard to focus my thoughts and felt like just "blah".

Later that night, about 7 hours later, I decided to do more...But thinking it might not have been enough choline, I did a 4:1 ratio of Choline to Pira. 1/8tsp pira and 1/2 tsp of choline. The effects this time didn't seem nearly as pronounced or quick. It was like the effects got stretched out. The only 2 differences between this time and the first dose that afternoon were that I ate something this time, where I had an empty stomach. The other difference is that the second dose, I didn't have the Red Rain energy drink. I just reused that shot bottle and fillied it with Kool-Aid powder or something.

Anyway, Just curious if it seems I was on the right track by upping choline or not.
Also, Before I added the other stuff from my initial stack back into these iterations, I want to make sure I get this pira+choline ratio thing dicked.

Thanks!

[LBGSHI]

There are certainly a lot of variables here.

Ratio of choline to 'racetam, including the possibility of 0:1, is something that's quite variable between different people, and is affected by your diet as well (eggs are a source of choline, among other things).

The best advice I can give with this much information is:

1. Get proper sleep for a day or two, and continue to do so during the 'experiment'.
2. Eat properly.
3. Try a certain ratio for an entire day. If that ratio doesn't work, adjust up or down. Try that ratio for an entire day. Repeat until consistent cause and effect is established.

Generally, too little choline seems to cause mild headaches and/or brain fog. Too much choline seems to cause mild muscular cramps, including a clenched-jaw feeling. These symptoms seem to vary from person to person, with some even claiming the opposite effects ('standard' choline deficiency symptoms in place of choline overdose symptoms, and vice versa), though my guess is that this is something akin to the placebo effect. Keep in mind, one can and does get headaches, muscle cramps, and even a clenched-jaw feeling and 'brain fog' even without any supplements whatsoever. That being said, I was able to identify my preferred choline:racetam ratio fairly easily, and it seems that many others here were able to as well.

As a side-note, I would recommend alpha-GPC in place of choline bitartrate; when I switched from choline bitartrate to alpha-GPC, the effects were much more consistent, and choline deficiency symptoms became non-existent, rather than sporadically occurring occasionally.

Edited by LBGSHI, 11 December 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[gray.bot]

TAKE A FULL HEAPED TEASPOON OF PIRACETAM.

Stick with the half a teaspoon of choline bitatrate.

That will fix your problem.