105 replies to this topic

[JPC16]

I don't have a lab, but C16 can easily be stored in just a simple freezer. I'm also able to get DMSO.
But the problem is that when I try to order from big chemical companies like Sigma or Santa cruz, they are always on to me.
So thats why I am asking around if someone else is able to order it from them. If so please contact me. I am willing to try it out and I will even pay for it.
I will post my entire experiment with pictures and i will even let a bloodtest be done.

If we have to wait for the clincical tests, that is probably going to take another 4 years. So please help me.

[dz93]

Maybe to avoid any problems with toxicity try it out on mice first to see what effects can be noted. Although from what I've read a lot of places claim that C16 doesn't have the adverse effects that's most PKR inhibitors have. I'm not able to provide a link or anything to back this up but I'm sure you can search for it on your own. This seems like a promising substance but then again with so little research done on it who knows.

[renfr]

http://www.invivogen.com/2-aminopurine
2-AP, another PKR inhibitor.
- much cheaper
- easier to handle (it doesn't need cold storage as it can be dissolved with heat)

Edited by renfr, 09 January 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Krabby]

http://www.invivogen.com/2-aminopurine
2-AP, another PKR inhibitor.
- much cheaper
- easier to handle (it doesn't need cold storage as it can be dissolved with heat)

I’m guessing there is no way to compare the effectiveness of both compounds without directly testing them yourself (aside from animal testing)?

I will need to do more research but is the ratio between price and effective dosage lower for this new compound?

Also, I’m assuming the administration method for such a chemical would be IV. I’m guessing there is not much bioavailability.



I would be very interested in results from human testing with this substance. What are the expected outcomes in terms of magnitude to memory improvement etc.? (Is it very substantial in comparison with other chemicals?)

[stablemind]

I would be very interested in results from human testing with this substance. What are the expected outcomes in terms of magnitude to memory improvement etc.? (Is it very substantial in comparison with other chemicals?)

From what I understand human trials won't happen for some time also we can't compare it to other chemicals unless someone does a rat test.

[Michael White]

If you're serious about cognitive enhancement, a PKR Inhibitor seems to be a godsend. With that said, I can get it for $60 bucks. If someone will pay for it, I will experiment with it on myself and do a full report on it here. This would seem to surpass all other nootropics in respect to the level of change to the upside it can cause. I personally don't want to waste time, energy or money on other nootropics if this can do what it's claimed to do. BTW, anyone talk to the guy who made this thread since he was called a troll and left?

[Shorty]

I PM'd him a while ago but I think he's gone for good.

[Michael White]

I PM'd him a while ago but I think he's gone for good.

Yeah, seems so. I've search Google extensively for anything related to anyone using a pkr inhibitor on themselves and have found ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's unbelievable that he could be the only person on all of the internet to post an experience (supposedly) using a pkr inhibitor. I wish there was some way to get ahold of him.... Is his email listed on this site?

[PWAIN]

Michael, 2 posts and first one asking for $60 - sure you're not workaholic come to get back at everyone? I would consider it for someone who had a couple of hundred posts and had been around for a few years.

Not accusing you, just think you should look into how you may come across (Hint: it is NEVER a good idea to ask for money on your first post). Maybe if you are serious, you can do a deal with JPC16 where he pays you to get 2 lots and you send one lot to him and keep the other for your trouble. Still a bit of a trust issue but the would be for JPC16 to sort out.

[JPC16]

First of all, I already knew of the existence of 2-AP. But imo I think that C16 is a safer compound for PKR inhibition since it does the latter without stimulating the proliferative mTOR/p70S6K signaling mechanism. This probably means a lower risk in the development of braintumors.
Secondly, the mice (or rats i doen't remember) in the experiment which reported the "supermemory" also received C16. And the animal seemed to have no side effects.
I am still willing to try the inhibitor. I actually thought that Krabby was in the possession of a pkr inhibitor. He mentioned something like that in a topic he started about modafinil.
If Michael is able to get his hands on the inhibitor (C16), than I am willing to buy it from him.

[Krabby]

First of all, I already knew of the existence of 2-AP. But imo I think that C16 is a safer compound for PKR inhibition since it does the latter without stimulating the proliferative mTOR/p70S6K signaling mechanism. This probably means a lower risk in the development of braintumors.
Secondly, the mice (or rats i doen't remember) in the experiment which reported the "supermemory" also received C16. And the animal seemed to have no side effects.
I am still willing to try the inhibitor. I actually thought that Krabby was in the possession of a pkr inhibitor. He mentioned something like that in a topic he started about modafinil.
If Michael is able to get his hands on the inhibitor (C16), than I am willing to buy it from him.

Yeah, I jumped the gun a little bit on that one. I had the ability to get my hands on some and was fairly committed to acquiring it due to the opportunity. Things did not turn out that way though; I just kind of wanted some input.

I would be interested in trying one of the inhibiters. What sort of dose would we be looking at for 2-AP to cause the intended effects? Safety is a bit of a concern, would there be a small enough dose to reduce the effects of any potential side effects so they could be identified without any fatalities?

Edited by Krabby, 10 January 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[renfr]

First of all, I already knew of the existence of 2-AP. But imo I think that C16 is a safer compound for PKR inhibition since it does the latter without stimulating the proliferative mTOR/p70S6K signaling mechanism. This probably means a lower risk in the development of braintumors.
Secondly, the mice (or rats i doen't remember) in the experiment which reported the "supermemory" also received C16. And the animal seemed to have no side effects.
I am still willing to try the inhibitor. I actually thought that Krabby was in the possession of a pkr inhibitor. He mentioned something like that in a topic he started about modafinil.
If Michael is able to get his hands on the inhibitor (C16), than I am willing to buy it from him.

Yeah, I jumped the gun a little bit on that one. I had the ability to get my hands on some and was fairly committed to acquiring it due to the opportunity. Things did not turn out that way though; I just kind of wanted some input.

I would be interested in trying one of the inhibiters. What sort of dose would we be looking at for 2-AP to cause the intended effects? Safety is a bit of a concern, would there be a small enough dose to reduce the effects of any potential side effects so they could be identified without any fatalities?

2AP seems to be used as a fluorescent compound in order to detect biological changes.

2-Aminopurine, an analog of guanine and adenine, is a fluorescent molecular marker used in nucleic acid research.^[1] It most commonly pairs with thymine as an adenine-analogue, but can also pair with cytosine as a guanine-analogue;.^[2] For this reason it is sometimes used in the laboratory for mutagenesis.

Seems to be a nucleic acid analogue too so it should be quite safe.
Certainly C16 is much better but it seems quite difficult to get it.

[Michael White]

Michael, 2 posts and first one asking for $60 - sure you're not workaholic come to get back at everyone? I would consider it for someone who had a couple of hundred posts and had been around for a few years.

Not accusing you, just think you should look into how you may come across (Hint: it is NEVER a good idea to ask for money on your first post). Maybe if you are serious, you can do a deal with JPC16 where he pays you to get 2 lots and you send one lot to him and keep the other for your trouble. Still a bit of a trust issue but the would be for JPC16 to sort out.

I'm in no way, shape, or form asking for money. I just don't understand why there are no reports from a human being that has tried a pkr inhibitor. I'd buy it myself, but I just ordered a bulk shipment from CerebralHealth so my funds are low. I may have gotten ripped off though because when I try to call and check on the shipment I get a voicemail. No one has answered yet.

renfr: I believe the PKR Inhibitor I found for $60 is 2-AP, I'll have to double check.

I have a bulk shipment of Goji powder on its way, which is suppose to inhibit PKR. So I can do a crude experiment with high doses I guess, maybe get some half decent results. Probably nowhere near the memory enhancing power of 2-AP however.

I'm relatively young, 26, and I have what they call "cancer related cognitive impairment". I use to have a memory so good that it got the attention of teachers at my school on several occassions. I actually have a doctor's appointment in 1/2 hour to discuss some form of treatment. I'm going to go for Ritalin, but will go with his recommendation, whatever that may be.

[Michael White]

BTW, off topic, but has anyone use Vasopressin or Oxytocin? I read some very interesting reports implying that they can set off a chain of reactions in the brain that lead to an extensive host of cognitive enhancements.

[JPC16]

Where did you find the pkr inhibitor?

[renfr]

Oxytocin is a waste of time, most of sellers are crooks and its half life is too short to be effective enough.
You should rather look into drugs that stimulate oxytocin.

[evo]

Been hearing a lot about PKR inhibition lately; would be willing to invest up to $1k tentatively and much more should there exist potential for safe & therapeutic treatment.

As for sourcing, hate to say it but the best bet would likely be China--I may, hypothetically speaking, be able to arrange this should you be able and willing to receive the package. Whatever you do with this package would be entirely at your discretion. Potential issues would of course be possible impurities and degradation during shipping--HPLC data would be rather expensive and I would only trust a national lab anyway meaning this is probably out of the question.

Not trying to be lazy but I don't have time to read through all the threads on PKR inhibition at the moment; does anyone have a summary of peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate the potential benefit/risk profile of either C16 or 2-AP? PKR inhibitors in general, especially those which may have had significant or unexpected actions? Are these currently the only "potentially safe" options discovered?

Cerebrolysin is as far as I've gone and frankly I'm not sure I'd be willing to test out such a novel compound especially should there exist a risk of carcinogenesis in human models... nevertheless if others would like to experiment at their own discretion consider me very interested in the outcomes.

[edit] Also any information on bioavailability would be a plus. Haven't done enough research yet to draw any conclusions but as a protein I'm assuming subcutaneous injection at a minimum?

[further edit] Potential sources (by CAS #--options which appear to either have lax restrictions on licensing or potential to ship to individuals):

http://acccorporatio...INB0000810.aspx (local)

http://www.vvchem.co...7-6,892635.html

http://atozchem.net/prod-854951.html

Edited by lmlj, 11 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[JPC16]

lmlj, I am interested in receiving such a package from you.

It is alo not necesarry to inject the inhibitor. C16 tested in mice got it injected in their stomachs, which means you coud take it orally. I think the bioavailability in mice is about the same as in humans, only the half life will be different.

2-AP on the other hand will probably be broken down in the stomach which means it needs to be injected.

[Krabby]

lmlj, I am interested in receiving such a package from you.

It is alo not necesarry to inject the inhibitor. C16 tested in mice got it injected in their stomachs, which means you coud take it orally. I think the bioavailability in mice is about the same as in humans, only the half life will be different.

2-AP on the other hand will probably be broken down in the stomach which means it needs to be injected.

What do you intend to do with the substance once you get it?
Will you be willing to do any human trials? It would be amazing if you could post the results of such a test.

Thanks for the sources Imlj, Did not come across those when I was searching.
Maybe we should make a new thread for this topic considering people probably disregard this because of the OP.

[JPC16]

I am planning to use it on myself.

[renfr]

lmlj, I am interested in receiving such a package from you.

It is alo not necesarry to inject the inhibitor. C16 tested in mice got it injected in their stomachs, which means you coud take it orally. I think the bioavailability in mice is about the same as in humans, only the half life will be different.

2-AP on the other hand will probably be broken down in the stomach which means it needs to be injected.

Do you have the link to the study? That's great if you don't need injection. But still you need to deal with extremely low dosages, mix up with DMSO in lots of liquid for accurate measure.

[evo]

lmlj, I am interested in receiving such a package from you.

It is alo not necesarry to inject the inhibitor. C16 tested in mice got it injected in their stomachs, which means you coud take it orally. I think the bioavailability in mice is about the same as in humans, only the half life will be different.

2-AP on the other hand will probably be broken down in the stomach which means it needs to be injected.

If you're serious about this, I would like to throw out a few suggestions... Of course nothing herein will be construed legally or otherwise as an endorsement of the human consumption of research chemicals without prior authorization and licensing--I trust this is either a hypothetical discussion or you are in a location where you have legal access to administer such a compound.

That said, after doing some preliminary research I feel that 2-AP would be unacceptable. If I'm reading this right the mechanism of action for inducing mutagenesis is at the level of DNA transcription, causing base mispairing. While this study was conducted on bacteria and not humans, I believe it is reasonable to assume (with my albeit limited medical knowledge) that anything that affects DNA transcription through a systemic process (the immune system) would carry between species. Whether the apoptotic mechanisms of humans can combat this remains to be seen, but it seems like gene mutations and cancer could be a very real possibility and no one can say for certain either way...

LINK: http://www.sciencedi...027510704000508

As for c16, I just can't seem to find much reliable info on it other than that it doesn't affect the mTOR pathway, and it has a lethal dosage at the ug/kg range. This study interestingly pointed out correlation with decreased GABA, so I'm curious if subjectively PKR inhibition could be more of a negative than a positive even if it worked as intended. I presume anxiety and stress would increase, and could possibly result in a semi-manic state where information is assimilated extremely quickly and is overwhelming (including things you don't need or want to remember). Given the limited studies on mice, there's really no way of knowing and of course this is all still conjecture.

LINK: http://dx.doi.org/10...ell.2011.11.029

If one were to decide to experiment with these compounds it would be wise to, at a minimum, get before and after blood panels covering basic hormones and immunoglobulins. Also you should create a clear hypothesis and design some tests to quantify some of the more qualitative aspects. Some of the cambridgebrainsciences tests might be useful for benchmarking, however I think the Dual N-Back would also be interesting. Because it naturally increases working memory and potentially LTP, a resulting trend that clearly defies the average could offer reasonable proof of efficacy.

If you can work with the researchers running the experiment to come up with a good action plan, I think there's potential to advance the current scientific knowledge of PKR inhibition... I can give you some tips on reaching out to these companies and getting responses--it's probably best if you do this (along with your researchers) and refer them to me to finalize payment. Let me know your thoughts.

Edited by lmlj, 12 January 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Michael White]

i just took the nootropics i got today and im trippin so hard. i hate it. it took me 20 min. to get to this website and write this.

[renfr]

Wait what? Tripping balls on nootropics, what did you take?

[Michael White]

a scoop of protein, which all the amino acids- name brank, creatine nitric oxide mix, name brand with alot of other stuff in it. 3 tablespoons caffeine, 2 bags green tea, cayanne, tumeric, ginkgo, b12 complex, fish oil, piracetam, pea, choline, and some other stuff i cant remember i cant think straight

[jillin]

This is worrisome, I hope you are well friend. I also hope the "nootropic" you took is not c16 pkr as it needs a very precise dosage. Isn't the LD50 for c16 pkr like 370 ul/kg?

i just took the nootropics i got today and im trippin so hard. i hate it. it took me 20 min. to get to this website and write this.

[Michael White]

im coming down now but holy shit wtf just happened. that shit was nuts. nowhere near what i was expecting. i took low amounts of everything. cept maybe caffeine.

im coming down now but holy shit wtf just happened. that shit was nuts. nowhere near what i was expecting. i took low amounts of everything. cept maybe caffeine.

[renfr]

3 tablespoons of caffeine?
Are you serious? This is 15g of caffeine, it's a lethal overdose, you have to go to the ER right now, people died by taking as low as 2g!


Go to the ER before you get a seizure or respiratory failure, caffeine overdose is something very serious, you might comedown now but there is certainly a risk of relapse once peak plasma levels are reached.

[renfr]

http://www.dailymail...-Red-Bulls.html

[Michael White]

are you serioius? i just recently started drinking coffee. i guess i made a bad guesstimation. its instant coffee, generic kind.my pulse is 100, what should i do to slow my system down? lots of water?