13 replies to this topic

[peace]

Hi there, folks.

I've been reading the forums for about a year now and have been supplementing with Alpha-GPC and Fish Oil for a while, but I'd like to take things to the next level.

I have been prescribed 25mg of Zoloft (Sertraline) for anxiety, depression, social phobia, mild panic attacks, and OCD. I have not yet started taking those as I am turned off by the purported withdrawal symptoms. Basically, I am wondering if there is any combination of noots that could have the same effects as the Zoloft without the dependency and with added memory benefits.
I was thinking of a racetam to go along with my Alpha-GPC. Perhaps 15mg of noopept, twice a day? Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I would rather take these as pills or capsules, too.

Or would it be a good idea to start taking the Zoloft and continue with my Alpha-GPC+Fish Oil combo, potentially adding a racetam or other nootropics later?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Adaptogen]

I don't think you will notice any real reduction in anxiety or social phobia from noopept...or really any of the racetams for that matter. Some people say aniracetam is a strong anxiolytic, but I have noticed nothing.
Something that will help for panic attacks and general anxiety is a proper diet and regular, intense exercise. Avoid all processed foods and grains if you are not already.

I have read reports that people supplementing Uridine noticed a reduction in ocd symptoms. http://www.longecity...a/page__st__990

I bought some and have been taking it, but it is hard to say if I am noticing anything so profound.


I have never tried any of the prescription anxiety medicines, and I have never been to a psychiatrist, but my general understanding is that most of them are not worth the side effects.

Truly curing your problems is possible if you go about it the right way. I think that is much better than having to take a potent medication to feel 'normal'.

As for depression...psychedelics are a pretty potent treatment if you are interested in taking an alternative route. I have used psilocybin/4-aco-dmt therapeutically and now have noticeably less depression. There are many studies showing the benefits..long term reduction in anxiety, increase in openness, and higher ratings of general well being. If you do decide to try this method, make sure you do a lot of research before hand and go into it with the right mindset.


I have severe social phobia, and I do not think it is something that can, or really should be treated with drugs. Exposure therapy would definitely lesson anxiety. But if you are too much of a social phobe to expose yourself, then perhaps medication could act as a stepping stone towards a greater progress.

[nupi]

No personal experience with Sertraline but the SSRIs (and SNRI for that matter) I have tried blow every supplement I have come across out of the water, by far (they also have stronger side effects, to be fair). Despite having been on Effexor (the purportedly nastiest AD to withdraw from), I never had any withdrawal when I tapered it down and stopped taking it. Worst case there is also the option to switch to Fluoxetine and taper that off very slowly (it is quite rare to have discontinuation issues with that owing to its incredibly long half life)

You should however expect to potentially try a couple of them in sequence until you find one that has a good relation between efficacy and side effects. I see no issue with taking an SSRI and stacking Nootropics on top of that provided you stay away from MAOI compounds (chiefly Methylene Blue but potentially also Rhodiola) and serotonin pre-cursors like 5-HTP.

I have severe social phobia, and I do not think it is something that can, or really should be treated with drugs. Exposure therapy would definitely lesson anxiety. But if you are too much of a social phobe to expose yourself, then perhaps medication could act as a stepping stone towards a greater progress.

I remain doubtful if it can be cured with drugs but it can definitely be treated with them if by treating we mean lessening the symptoms.

[peace]

No personal experience with Sertraline but the SSRIs (and SNRI for that matter) I have tried blow every supplement I have come across out of the water, by far (they also have stronger side effects, to be fair). Despite having been on Effexor (the purportedly nastiest AD to withdraw from), I never had any withdrawal when I tapered it down and stopped taking it. Worst case there is also the option to switch to Fluoxetine and taper that off very slowly (it is quite rare to have discontinuation issues with that owing to its incredibly long half life)

You should however expect to potentially try a couple of them in sequence until you find one that has a good relation between efficacy and side effects. I see no issue with taking an SSRI and stacking Nootropics on top of that provided you stay away from MAOI compounds (chiefly Methylene Blue but potentially also Rhodiola) and serotonin pre-cursors like 5-HTP.

I have severe social phobia, and I do not think it is something that can, or really should be treated with drugs. Exposure therapy would definitely lesson anxiety. But if you are too much of a social phobe to expose yourself, then perhaps medication could act as a stepping stone towards a greater progress.

I remain doubtful if it can be cured with drugs but it can definitely be treated with them if by treating we mean lessening the symptoms.

Thank you very much. I give your answer a bit more weight as you have actual experience with SSRIs. I will start the Zoloft now, then, and continue with Alpha-GPC and Fish Oil. Will look into adding a racetam a few months down the line, once I know what effects Sertraline will have on my system. Thanks again!

As far as my Social Phobia goes, it's not very severe. It keeps me worrying in my room a lot, but once I actually convince myself to get out, I don't have much trouble with people.

Edited by peace, 04 January 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[nupi]

That sounds kind of familiar. I would not expect wonders from SSRI on the social phoba front but general anxiety, depression and OCD it should help quite a bit. BTW, for most social phobics, the whole business of sexual side effects is kind of besides the point anyway :( Ultimately, I feel like SSRIs do get a bit of a bad rap. Considering the massive amount of prescriptions they have, some vocal complainers are to be expected. Having said that, if you notice any strange side effects (they can happen, if rarely, for example, Cymbalta, an SNRI, made me MORE obsessive), talk to your doctor and try another one...

Next to a decent diet, I would also look for a decent multi plus magnesium right now, BTW. You may want to drop the Alpha GPC (or at least switch to CDP Choline) as some people find that Choline is bad for mood. Personally I never saw much if any benefit from Choline either way.

Edited by nupi, 04 January 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[cat@]

I'm starting on Zoloft tomorrow for depression (nothing else). I've been on nootropics for over a year, with various results. I was worried about mixing Zoloft with nootropics. I mainly take piracetam but I also supplement with subut and oxy. Are there any known problems? I know not to take L-Tryptophan.

[formergenius]

Basically, I am wondering if there is any combination of noots that could have the same effects as the Zoloft without the dependency and with added memory benefits.

Cannabidiol
It's more a matter of what you're willing to pay though. I believe the link I posted has many study references for which I'm too tired to post myself

Or would it be a good idea to start taking the Zoloft and continue with my Alpha-GPC+Fish Oil combo, potentially adding a racetam or other nootropics later?

Depends on what you plan to add. Some things (possibly many things) may interact with Zoloft. Personally I wouldn't take the stuff, as there are enough safer, more effective alternatives. Oh, and of course the usual disclaimer: "obey discuss with your doctor".

[cat@]

Some things (possibly many things) may interact with Zoloft. Personally I wouldn't take the stuff, as there are enough safer, more effective alternatives.

What alternatives? The only reason I chose Zoloft for depression is because it can be purchased over the counter and has the possibility of weightloss (or at least, no weight gain).

[formergenius]

I'm confused: first you say you got Zoloft prescribed , and then you say you chose it because it is OTC?
Seeing as you have someone prescribing you medication, how about you try Agomelatine first? That's what I would do if I was considering prescription medication. Looks more effective as well. I wouldn't know about safety that much, but I do know that Damiana is a very effective anxiolytic for me personally, especially socially, though I use it as needed. You should always do your own research of course. Other than that, Kava is something to consider. Those are just some off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more. As for weight; it goes without saying that a healthy diet and regular exercise can be very beneficial to depression and anxiety by itself! Hence as long as there's no fat gain from anything you're considering, I'd recommend not to obstruct your considerations with potential weight-loss as a convincing factor, but instead look into other options for that.

[cat@]

To clear it up ... there are two of us taking Zoloft. The original poster has a prescription. I'm in Thailand where I can get a lot of drugs over the counter. Each pharmacy is different (stocks different drugs) so it takes some doing to track things down. Yesterday I selected a shortlist of drugs to help with my depression and Zoloft was the only one found at the pharmacies close by.

The weight gain came about because of the depression (it happens). So I want to avoid any drugs that are known to cause more weight gain. I'm sure as soon as I'm not so stressed, the weight I have gained these past months will come off.

Thank you for your help. I'll look for Agomelatine and Damiana (already taking Kava - started this week).

[formergenius]

Whoops sorry about that.. blame the brain fog By the way, I just smoked some Damiana extract infused tobacco as an experiment.. Yeah sublingual administration is definitely better in my experience (not so much of a "high" as smoking, and more clearheaded), in case you were considering smoking it. Anyways good luck!

[cat@]

I don't smoke (but I'll keep it in mind :-)

[cat@]

An update ... I've been on Zoloft now for over a month and it's working wonderful with the nootropics I've tried so far.

[Tom_]

Sertraline would be my first recommendation.

However if you want to add in nootropics try and avoid GABAnergic supplements as while they will work wonders in the short term they may cause tolerance/addiction.

Withdrawal from SSRIs happens in about 30% of people and tends to last less than three weeks as well as being mild. For efficacy in OCD much higher doses may be needed. In everything else 50-200mg is fine. You may want to add in aniracetam if you want to use nootropics.