23 replies to this topic

[ClarkSims]

Why is C60 in olive oil red sometimes, and purple at other times.
In wikipedia, and in Baati, they say it is purple.

http://en.wikipedia....il_Solution.JPG

When I make a concentrated solution it looks red, but then under certain lighting it looks purple
I attached a photo. It looked red to my eye, but it looks more purple in the photo.

C60 has a 1.9ev band gap

http://iopscience.io...C656BF8CB4BF.c3

I recall reading that C60 has a band gap of 1.9 ev.

http://prl.aps.org/a...v66/i13/p1741_1

biophysics.asu.edu/thorpe/publications/145.pdf



1.9 ev is red.
1.9 * 3/2 = 2.85 is purple

So is the C60 in solution letting the 1.9 and 2.85 ev photons through because they have the same frequency as a small integer multiple of the C60 ?

Does anyone have any comments on why so many sources describe C60 in solution as being purple, but it is so often red in the post on this forum?

Attached Files

•  c60_oliveoil.jpg   75.99KB   26 downloads

[trance]

It probably has a lot to do with the starting color of the olive oil too. Many varying shades of colors there to start from.

[YOLF]

Why is C60 in olive oil red sometimes, and purple at other times.
In wikipedia, and in Baati, they say it is purple.

http://en.wikipedia....il_Solution.JPG

When I make a concentrated solution it looks red, but then under certain lighting it looks purple
I attached a photo. It looked red to my eye, but it looks more purple in the photo.

C60 has a 1.9ev band gap

http://iopscience.io...C656BF8CB4BF.c3

I recall reading that C60 has a band gap of 1.9 ev.

http://prl.aps.org/a...v66/i13/p1741_1

biophysics.asu.edu/thorpe/publications/145.pdf



1.9 ev is red.
1.9 * 3/2 = 2.85 is purple

So is the C60 in solution letting the 1.9 and 2.85 ev photons through because they have the same frequency as a small integer multiple of the C60 ?

Does anyone have any comments on why so many sources describe C60 in solution as being purple, but it is so often red in the post on this forum?

An interesting observation, could it be caused by the difference in light as it reflects off of the pentagon and hexagon portions of the C60 structure?

I would call your maroon.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 10 January 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[niner]

Pristine (unsubstituted) C60 is light purple in solution. When it's substituted, the absorption changes in such a way as to make solutions look more red. The solution spectrum is more driven by HOMO-LUMO differences than by band gap, which is a solid state property. It doesn't have anything to do with reflection, as the c60 molecule is too small (about 1/50th a wavelength) for visible light to reflect off a single molecule. I've noticed the color differences too, and the only things I can think of to explain it are concentration effects, the color of the olive oil that you start with, and maybe contaminants. The commercial c60-oo that I've seen is a pretty dark purple, while the lower concentration solution that I made at home looks lighter, which you'd expect from a more dilute solution, but also seems more red shifted; kind of maroon. It looks cool, at any rate, and seems to work. Tom, Sarah, or Anthony (the three commercial producers of c60-oo) might have something to say about it. At this point, my money is on concentration effects, but to really know what's up we should find a UV/VIS spectrophotometer and run some spectra.

[trance]

I've noticed the color differences too, and the only things I can think of to explain it are concentration effects, the color of the olive oil that you start with, and maybe contaminants. The commercial c60-oo that I've seen is a pretty dark purple, while the lower concentration solution that I made at home looks lighter, which you'd expect from a more dilute solution, but also seems more red shifted; kind of maroon. It looks cool, at any rate, and seems to work. Tom, Sarah, or Anthony (the three commercial producers of c60-oo) might have something to say about it.

_{I have all three commercial products, and samples of my own home brews. I'll take some photos of each for color comparison and post them here when I get back home.}

[ClarkSims]

What does pristine or substituted mean?
Isn't it just C60 forming some bond to a lipid?
How is one bond pristine, and the other substituted?

If one grinds C60, leaves it in olive oil for a long time, and achieves a concentration of about .7 to .8 g per liter, isn't that a saturated solution? The picture I posted has about .75 g / litter of C60. It is red when I look at it, though it appears purples when I take a photo.

[ClarkSims]

I guess I don't really know the concentration of the solution, because I can't weight the amount of sediment, and because I am just estimating how much C60 I put in different bottles. Some bottles have more sediment than others.

[ClarkSims]

Why would the homo-lumo increase from red (1.9ev) to purple (2.8) as a function of concentration?

I would love to buy this, but I am moving around too much:

http://www.ebay.com/...=item35c32c9f8d

[ClarkSims]

Google found several hits for "homo/lumo gap as a function of concentration"

Like this: "...we have partially substituted in Si nanocrystals layers of Si atoms by similar layers of Ge atoms and calculated the optical and HOMO-LUMO gaps as a function of Ge concentration and ..."

http://iopscience.io...2-6596/10/1/025

So I guess this is the best explanation for the red color. Maybe if I bought a mechanical stirrer I could get purple C60-OO.

[trance]

Here are some photos of the three current commercial products, and two of my homebrews. I numbered the first photo based on this key (from top to bottom), and all other photo samples are in the same order:

5 - carbon60oliveoil.com, Tom Martin, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #00106 - October 2012

4 - RevGenetics, Anthony Loera, revgenetics.com, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #000106 - October 2012

3 - Vaughter Wellness, Sarah Vaughter, c60antiaging.com, 0.9 mg / ml, expires May 2014

2 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml Koroneiki Olive Oil

1 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml California Ranch Olive Oil

All the samples in each photo are in the same order; just the lighting is changed to get a better idea of the various colors.


My homebrews # 1 & # 2 appear the same color to the naked eye, and interestingly enough the commercial product from carbon60oliveoil.com ( # 5 ) is also the same color. All three of these samples are much darker and ruby colored than the other two.

Even more interesting, is that Anthony's and Sarah's products have identical colors to the naked eye. They are much lighter in color than # 1, 2, & 5, and have a slight pink or purple hue.

And I'm not sure if it is coincidence or not, but Anthony's and Tom's products (# 4 & # 5) are labeled with the exact same lot number and expiration number, except Anthony has an extra zero in his lot number. However, the color between the two samples ( # 4 & # 5 ) are distinctively different.

My homebrews were made using the simple grind and shake methods.


Click on each photo to get a larger view.

 photo-1a.jpg   75.22KB   73 downloads

 photo-2a.jpg   46.56KB   80 downloads

 photo-3a.jpg   45.26KB   75 downloads

 photo-4a.jpg   49.57KB   69 downloads

.

[ClarkSims]

That was a great idea to put the samples next to each other. It seems that there is some sort of random variable which determines whether the color is more red or purple or pink, and that all of the samples can have different colors under different lighting.

Edited by ClarkSims, 11 January 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[somecallmetim]

Is it possible for you to place them side by side, with white paper underneath, and take the pic from above? I assume the lids are clear, yes?

[trance]

Is it possible for you to place them side by side, with white paper underneath, and take the pic from above? I assume the lids are clear, yes?

Yes. I'll do that later tonight.

[JohnD60]

My homebrew is red. All the pictures posted in this thread look red to me. There was some discussion early on that the description of purple by Baati was a translation issue, I don't know if 'translation error' was the final verdict or not.

Edited by JohnD60, 11 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[YOLF]

Here are some photos of the three current commercial products, and two of my homebrews. I numbered the first photo based on this key (from top to bottom), and all other photo samples are in the same order:

5 - carbon60oliveoil.com, Tom Martin, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #00106 - October 2012

4 - RevGenetics, Anthony Loera, revgenetics.com, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #000106 - October 2012

3 - Vaughter Wellness, Sarah Vaughter, c60antiaging.com, 0.9 mg / ml, expires May 2014

2 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml Koroneiki Olive Oil

1 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml California Ranch Olive Oil

All the samples in each photo are in the same order; just the lighting is changed to get a better idea of the various colors.


My homebrews # 1 & # 2 appear the same color to the naked eye, and interestingly enough the commercial product from carbon60oliveoil.com ( # 5 ) is also the same color. All three of these samples are much darker and ruby colored than the other two.

Even more interesting, is that Anthony's and Sarah's products have identical colors to the naked eye. They are much lighter in color than # 1, 2, & 5, and have a slight pink or purple hue.

And I'm not sure if it is coincidence or not, but Anthony's and Tom's products (# 4 & # 5) are labeled with the exact same lot number and expiration number, except Anthony has an extra zero in his lot number. However, the color between the two samples ( # 4 & # 5 ) are distinctively different.

My homebrews were made using the simple grind and shake methods.


Click on each photo to get a larger view.

 photo-1a.jpg   75.22KB   73 downloads

 photo-2a.jpg   46.56KB   80 downloads

 photo-3a.jpg   45.26KB   75 downloads

 photo-4a.jpg   49.57KB   69 downloads

.

If you look at the light in the last pic, RG's looks more uniform as the light coming through it is more uniform, but this probably has more to do with the angle of the light.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 11 January 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[trance]

Okay, let's try this again. The colors are much more evident now.


Here's the key to the C60-Olive Oil samples based on these numbers:

5 - carbon60oliveoil.com, Tom Martin, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #00106 - October 2012

4 - RevGenetics, Anthony Loera, revgenetics.com, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #000106 - October 2012

3 - Vaughter Wellness, Sarah Vaughter, c60antiaging.com, 0.9 mg / ml, expires May 2014

2 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml Koroneiki Olive Oil

1 - Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml California Ranch Olive Oil


Click on the photos for larger viewing sizes.


All samples, side by side:

 F-Photo-2.jpg   33.93KB   128 downloads


Colors of just a few drops of each sample spread out:

 F-Photo-1.jpg   32.26KB   140 downloads


Sample #5 carbon60oliveoil:

 F-Sample-5.jpg   97.34KB   100 downloads


Sample #4 RevGenetics:

 F-Sample-4.jpg   159.37KB   59 downloads


Sample #3 Vaughter Wellness:

 F-Sample-3.jpg   171.54KB   45 downloads


Sample #2 My own homebrew with Koroneiki Olive Oil, grind & shake:

 F-Sample-2.jpg   182.15KB   42 downloads


Sample #1 My own homebrew with California Ranch Olive Oil, grind & shake:

 F-Sample-1.jpg   116.53KB   52 downloads


5 = carbon60oliveoil.com, Tom Martin, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #00106 - October 2012
4 = RevGenetics, Anthony Loera, revgenetics.com, 0.8 mg / ml, lot #000106 - October 2012
3 = Vaughter Wellness, Sarah Vaughter, c60antiaging.com, 0.9 mg / ml, expires May 2014
2 = Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml Koroneiki Olive Oil
1 = Homebrew, 0.8mg C60 / ml, 500ml California Ranch Olive Oil


Containers:

 F-Photo-3.jpg   70.52KB   52 downloads

.

[JohnD60]

My guess is that the 'few drops' samples are exhibiting light scattering due to the tydall effect (blue/green/yellow), and that they are not an accuate indication of true color.

[ClarkSims]

I don't see any consistent difference between the stirred, centrifuged, filtered c60/oo and the crushed shaken c60/oo. I am going with the idea that the colors of the original olive oils was different, and that is the cause of the different colors in the final product.

@trance, thanks for posting the pics. That was very helpful.

Edited by ClarkSims, 12 January 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[niner]

Thanks, trance. To me, those all look more similar than different, and they look a lot like my homebrew. Like Clark said, I suspect that the color of the olive oil has a lot to do with it.

[pleb]

I have some home brew using Filippo Berio, this has turned out a deepish red, and took quite a while to change colour from a dark brown, and didn't appear to turn purple except for a day or two before turning red,

i have a 1/2 litre of light Napoliano the C60 was ground and turned the oil purple in a day or so but then took two weeks to turn a light shade of red,

and with the SV i had which was somewhere in between the two in colour depth,

I'm not a olive oil fan and while i can take the Nap and SV brew with no problem the Berrio stuff is quite bitter anything more than half a pipete (from an empty SV bottle) makes me gag,,

Edited by pleb, 12 January 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[somecallmetim]

Thanks Trance. +1

[trance]

Thanks all.

I see variations in the colors of most of the samples, but maybe that doesn't come across too readily on each of our computers.

A couple of other observations on my part after working with each oil together over the last couple of days more closely than I would have otherwise ...

1) I'm still curious why Anthony's (#4) and Tom's (#5) products sport the exact same lot number and date. They are different formulations based on the color and taste of my samples though. Something special about using lot 106, or just pure coincidence?

2) Tom's (#5) and my Koroneiki homebrew (#2) are exactly the same; in color, taste, and feel. (Mine is maybe a 'tinge' darker, but I didn't filter mine.) At the time, I had specifically sought out the Koroneiki olive oil because it is known to have one of the highest polyphenol ratings. It does seem to produce the deepest color if basing the C60oo reaction on color. If Tom still reads these forums I wonder if he would confirm the source of his oil. Is it Koroneiki olive oil? Is it from the Olive Oil Source bulk supplier in California? Just curious.

3) And Anthony's product (#4) is the only one that has a definite purple-pink hue to it that none of the others do looking at them overhead next to each other. And it is just different than all the others; looks different, feels different. Is this because he used ultrasonic mixing as rumored compared to conventional methods? Maybe he'll chime in.

.

[IP3]

Anyone tested c60 from buckylabs? It looks like common olive oil (like this https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg) no shade of pink color.

[MissMaggie]

IP3, all oils look a bit brownish in a pipette, you will get a better idea of colour pouring into a clear glass or container. I've done two batches of home-brew now, at slightly different concentrations, using the same oil, and I can see quite a difference in colour, the bigger concentration is decidedly more purple but both look very deep red in a champagne glass. Not sure if it's just the concentration (one was about 0.6 mg/ml, the other around 0.8 mg/ml.

Also, that's definitely not what a straight olive oil looks like, that brownish tinge is a dead give away that is definitely got c60 in it.