15 replies to this topic

[goldsilver]

So I just screwed up myself.
I took two drugs who lower blood sugar (inositol and 4 aco dmt), I had an extremely bad trip followed with hypoglycemia.
I think I induced reactive hypoglycemia (you eat and then some hours after it causes hypoglycemia).
now this is my problem, I eat then 30min-1h after I feel perfectly fine then 2 hours after eating I start having hypoglycemia (feeling shaky, speedy, sweating, muscle twitching, bowel movement and diarrhea, etc...).
I eat again and the same starts again!
It's been 2 days I took inositol (took it for one week 3g) and 4 aco dmt (only one time 10mg) now they're out of my system but I think I caused a strong inbalance in insulin/glucagon.
How do I solve that? If I don't eat the symptoms worsens then subside but tolerance to sugar increases (which means reactive hypoglycemia when I start eating)
If I eat, reactive hypoglycemia comes in some hours after.
Did I ruin myself? is this permanent? I really don't want to have diabetes or something and the symptoms are annoying and dangerous to my heart also I have slight memory impairment.
Note, I don't take any coffee or any kind of stimulants.
will exercise help or make it worse?

Edited by goldsilver, 13 January 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

I'm not a doctor, but I've always heard the way to avoid reactive hypoglycemia is to avoid spiking high blood sugars that cause excess insulin release.

I believe the metabolic state you describe occurs when a spike in blood sugar creates a substantial release of insulin. When the insulin lasts longer than the blood sugar does, it creates a crash/crump situation.

Frequent small meals of low glycemic index foods (avoid sugars and simple carbs) should reduce insulin spikes/production, allowing blood sugar to stabilize.

Hope this helps.

[Guardian4981]

I struggle with reactive hypoglycemia.

It has gotten somewhat better. I personally feel alot of folks with hypoglycemia issues likely have an underlying thyroid issue specifically hypothyroid. We know there is some kind of connection between mental health substances and thyroid, substances like lithium appear to slow the thyroid down. Inositol likely exerts a mental health influence.

Try ashwaghanda see if that helps also make sure your getting enough iodine, selenium, and zinc.

For myself I find if I say eat pizza on a sunday night the entire next day I do not get hypoglycemia. What likely happens is the higher calories and carbs from the pizza boosts my metabolism and thyroid and thats why the next day I feel no hypoglycemia. But then when I return to my more strict diet my metabolism slows.

I am having some improvement with ashwaghanda, I also will be starting thyroid glandular soon and may try forskolin as well.

Why did you use the inositol to begin with? If your like me you tried it for mental benefits, I am not starting to believe most of my mental issues like anxiety may come from a slow thyroid rather then needing more traditional compounds or drugs.

[goldsilver]

I'm not a doctor, but I've always heard the way to avoid reactive hypoglycemia is to avoid spiking high blood sugars that cause excess insulin release.

I believe the metabolic state you describe occurs when a spike in blood sugar creates a substantial release of insulin. When the insulin lasts longer than the blood sugar does, it creates a crash/crump situation.

Frequent small meals of low glycemic index foods (avoid sugars and simple carbs) should reduce insulin spikes/production, allowing blood sugar to stabilize.

Hope this helps.

yes it's exactly that, my insulin is overreactive and on long term this can cause diabetes.
I will try low glycemic foods but it will make insulin more sensitive no?
will I have to do that for the rest of my life or this is reversible?

I struggle with reactive hypoglycemia.

It has gotten somewhat better. I personally feel alot of folks with hypoglycemia issues likely have an underlying thyroid issue specifically hypothyroid. We know there is some kind of connection between mental health substances and thyroid, substances like lithium appear to slow the thyroid down. Inositol likely exerts a mental health influence.

Try ashwaghanda see if that helps also make sure your getting enough iodine, selenium, and zinc.

For myself I find if I say eat pizza on a sunday night the entire next day I do not get hypoglycemia. What likely happens is the higher calories and carbs from the pizza boosts my metabolism and thyroid and thats why the next day I feel no hypoglycemia. But then when I return to my more strict diet my metabolism slows.

I am having some improvement with ashwaghanda, I also will be starting thyroid glandular soon and may try forskolin as well.

Why did you use the inositol to begin with? If your like me you tried it for mental benefits, I am not starting to believe most of my mental issues like anxiety may come from a slow thyroid rather then needing more traditional compounds or drugs.

I know that my thyroid levels went down over a year, I think it happened because I changed my lifestyle.
I tried taking a strong multivitamin with lots of nutrients including those three and it didn't change much, I think you have results with ashwagandha because it lowers blood sugar and avoid spike but my problem is that I used inositol (which lower blood sugar) then withdrew cold turkey (and this made blood sugar go up excessively), both inositol and ashwagandha will give the same results but I don't want to take supplements.
I started inositol because people see a lot of improvement with choline.

I noticed some things :
- I eat => 1 hour later I feel fine, 2 hours later strong shakiness begins
- I don't eat => I feel fine during several hours with minor shakiness sometimes but it's bearable
- I eat then immediatly I exercise 20-40mins, I feel fine all the time
problem is that I can't always exercise after eating.
I will try this :
- eat low hypoglycemic food and see what it does, I will cut on soda, french fries very glycemic stuff

I have two questions however :
- if you take something with 20 glycemic index and another thing with 30 glycemic index, does this make your intake equal to 50?
- is non-congenital reactive hypoglycemia reversible in an healthy individual?

[renfr]

This suggestion might be atypical but I suggest you eat more carbs and high glycemic index food.
Inositol had caused insulin upregulation (sensitivity) so when you eat naturally insulin is produced but with inositol the same amount of insulin causes a stronger reaction.
Therefore you need to make your insulin less sensitive, to do that you have to eat high glycemic index foods. (in other terms eat the way you were eatig before)
You will feel shakiness during the first time, just ride it out.
Then insulin will stabilize to levels before.
If shakiness is too impairing, just do it steadily until you reach your normal eating habits.
If your eating habits were bad ones then you shouldn't go back to this state and lower your sugar intake, this indeed can cause diabetes on long term.
During hypoglycemic events you can take fish oil to higher blood sugar.
Normally it should resolve in a matter of one week, if it doesn't you should rather go to your doctor.
When eating take some ginkgo biloba, it will cause peripheral vasodilation and counter adrenaline induced peripheral vasoconstriction.
Try drinking some milk, its glycemic index is low however it is insulinergic.

Edited by renfr, 14 January 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Where did you read that 4-aco-dmt lowers blood sugar?

[renfr]

Where did you read that 4-aco-dmt lowers blood sugar?

I guess he thought that because of the link between hypoglycemia and bad trips.


Gingko biloba can reduce over production of insulin and elevate blood sugar : http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11402628
It could be a good thing to normalize your insulin levels.

[LORDDiESEL]

I suffer from this as well. I find long burning carbs like brown rice go a long way.

[Adaptogen]

Ah i see. I had a bad trip on 4-aco..combining celestrus, noopept, aniracetam, and green tea extract. my heart was racing out of control, typical panic attack symptoms but I thought for sure I was a goner.

I was dumb and went to the emergency room, which probably exacerbated my symptoms. Three weeks later and I am still having fleeting panic attacks. Anyone have any suggestions for treatment?

I think once i finally get an echocardiogram, that will hopefully put an end to my health anxiety. It really sucks though, just one bad experience and I have such persistent discomfort.



hmm and interestingly, in the mornings before breakfast, or when I am very hungry..i notice a recurrence of these feelings/psychosomatic palpitations much stronger than when I am fully satiated.

Edited by Adaptogen, 14 January 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[renfr]

Hypoglycemia (insulin) causes release of adrenalinerr in order to break down protein and stimulate release of glucose.
You probably had this kind of episode, that explains palpitations.
When did this happen?
It should resolve quickly, if it doesn't it might be due to serotonin depletion.

[renfr]

4 aco dmt is a wonder drug when it comes to mind exploration but indeed it should be used cautiously as to glycemia :
- never take hypoglycemic or hyperglycemic drugs before ( wait 24-48h)
- always eat one hour before ingestion then eat 1 or two times during the trip
- don't eat food with high glycemic index( soda, fries, bread, "junk food" in general)
Eat low glycemic index food in order to sustain proper blood glucose during all the trip (trip+comedown)

Concerning glycemic index :
- watchout between glycemic index based on bread and glycemic index based on glucose
glycemic index based on bread is obviously inaccurate and flawed.
- some websites follow a chart based on flawed government agencies pressured by agroalimentary corporations
A glycemic index over 55 is already HIGH and not moderate
Under 55 should be considered for 4 aco dmt trip.

[Adaptogen]

It happened just over two weeks ago. I don't think it was a direct result of hypoglycemia though, I think the combination of the nootropics, heavy psilocin dose, and stimulating properties of the green tea extract sent me into an extreme state of panic. I was convinced that there would be damage as a result of my rapid heartbeat. Looking back on it, it wasn't even that high. maybe 160 or so. I actually had a recurring panic attack two days and drove to the nearby emergency room. I should not have done this, as i feel it is just reinforcing my anxiety responses. Just walking into the building had my heart racing at 180bpm.

However, this time, I decided to wait it out, and spent my time rolling around the cancer center in a wheelchair, and in around an hour it was down to 90 bpm.

I wish there was a way to "reset" my panic response. It was such a strong negative experience that I can feel my heartbeat at almost all times now.

Even when I try to meditate I get the palpitations. Same with trying to sleep. Fortunately melatonin and valerian works pretty well to put me to bed, but it is disconcerting nonetheless.

[RJ100]

My hypoglycemia is much improved since I started IF. I spend 16 hours not eating and 8 hours eating. The fasting was hard at first but now I'm used to it.

I am also somewhat low carb. When I do eat carbs I try to eat them alongside protein and fat. That is, if I eat a banana it's with peanut butter. If I eat a small dessert it's immediately following a solid meal. Any highish glycemic carb in isolation is off limits as it will cause hypoglycemia symptoms.

[goldsilver]

I think my situation has resolved itself, I managed to eat high sugar meals without reactive hypoglycemia guess it was just a matter of time for the drug to wear off.
pretty scary though
Iwill definitely never take 4 aco dmt and inositol along

[Adaptogen]

So you think it is dangerous to combine inositol and 4-aco-dmt? I was going to take some inositol today, but do not want to risk a bad experience.

[niner]

When I do eat carbs I try to eat them alongside protein and fat. That is, if I eat a banana it's with peanut butter. If I eat a small dessert it's immediately following a solid meal. Any highish glycemic carb in isolation is off limits as it will cause hypoglycemia symptoms.

This is really good advice. Glycemic index is not a terrifically useful number. Glycemic load is a little better, but whatever you combine the carbs with will alter, sometimes radically, the rate of glucose release. Definitely skip the toxic crap like high fructose soda and candy. If you absolutely must eat that kind of thing, do it after a meal like RJ says. Otherwise, mix carbs with protein and fat and things will be a lot better.

I'm not going to tell anyone not to trip (or to trip- that's your own decision) but after seeing a string of people reporting serious metabolic disturbances from mixing weird sugars (ribose, inositol) with low carb diets and/or other substances, I gotta say, be careful out there.