• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo

Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

metronidazole

  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 Metronidazole

  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:39 PM


Hello everyone! I've been reading along on this forum since i developed health problems after taking a seven day course of 500mg of Metronidazole(Flagyl) in februari 2012. I found a lot of useful information, possible causes and solutions for my problem. But I'm not able to make a good estimation of what the root of my problem is. I've been to several doctors and nothing useful so far, hope that someone can help me here.

First off some background, I am 25 years old (1.82m 72kg BMI 21.73), live in the Netherlands and have always been quite healthy and very optimistic and happy with my life. Before i had the Metronidazole course I was on vacation in Mexico and took a lot of sun, then when I came back i went to see the doctor for some stomach issues i was having for maybe 3 years(sometimes problems eating and a little upset stomach(had it since i ate something wrong)). The doctor first told me there was nothing and later told me i had some parasite infection which was a very common one(25% of the people have it) and doesn't cause any problems, but i could take a course of Metronidazole and it would go away. I asked for the side effects, but she told me they were minimal and all short term. So i decided to take the first antibiotic in my life.

During the week of taking the antibiotics i slowly developed symptoms which i didn't connect to the metronidazole till maybe three days after i finished them since they were becoming more severe.
Things that might have created the problem together with Metronidazole:
- I might have taken Methylphenidate at the same time for one or two days(Been diagnosed with ADD, it's not really a problem for me but i very rarely used Methylphenidate to help me focus more)(Pubmed: 17963129 Metronidazole causes increased the levels of brain serotonin.)
- I took the Metronidazole on a empty stomach
- I have been in the sun quite a lot in that time (10 minutes-4 hours each day(if longer with sunlotion else without))
- I didn't take probiotics during or after the treatment

Ps. I did all she told me and what is in the note comming with the medicin, only when i started having the problems i read online that these things could be bad while taking metronidazole.

The symptoms:
Physical
- Skin flakes all over my body (Now only on my face)
- Dry skin
- Red skin on my face
- Glowing T-zone, like a burning sensation (Little bit less, but could be for not drinking coffee anymore, noticed it would get a lot worse from that)
- Loss of hair (All over my scalp and random places. The house looks like we have a dog)
- Less strong hair and less thick
- Dandruff
- Very difficult to get a erection
- Less firm erections
- Less big in not erected state as it seems for the testicles
- Sore neck and shoulders
- More sore joints and muscles and a lot longer after workout for example
- Constant annoyed throat
- Dry eyes
- Dry mouth
- Joint pain
- Fatigued
- Feeling the urge to urinate stronger and a lot sooner


Mental
- Difficult time falling asleep, continuing sleeping (used to be able to sleep all day and really deep)
- Never had nightmares before, since them have them regally
- No enjoyment from things i would really enjoy normally; Video games, driving around in my car, watching a movie, listening to music, everything became dull
- Loss of affection for my fiancée (And any other women, but never really was interested in anyone else... but now i tried to see if i could
- Not interested in sex or even masturbating (before always did)
- No good feeling in brain when ejaculating or feeling of tiredness how i did before (do have good feeling in my groin area)
- Feeling of anxiety
- Headaches (before never had them)
- Suicidal thoughts for not feeling any joy and not being able to recover from this(Never ever had those before, i couldn't imagine how someone could commit suicide.. lessons learned)

My doctor said it is impossible to have these symptoms from metronidazole and i understand something else could be the cause. However when i look at the list of side effects online i find all the symptoms i'm having now. The doctor send me to a dermatologist for my skin problems, who i believe said sebhorric dermatitis and that would be also the cause for my extreme loss of hair. He wanted to give me steroid cream for my face and also ketonazole cream and shampoo. I didn't want to use any of those, since it only might be helpful for one or two of my symptoms and these have side effects as well.
Since they weren't able to help me i went to a private doctor who did extensive blood work. Results:


22-6-2012
Hb 9.2 8.0-10.2
MCV 89 82-98
glcn 4.2 4.0-6.4
TSH 1.15 0.35-5.5
B1 112 90-200
vit C 70 25-102
vit B12 454 150-700

4-7- 12
Free carnitine 41 43.5-105.5
acylcarnitine 7.0 5.6-14.3
Total carnitine 48.0 49-119.7


23 -7 -12
Salvia:
DHEA 8 ug/l 3-10
prog 22 ng/l 5-95
androstenedion 297 ng/l 151-350
oestrone 23 ng/l 30-58
testosteron 22 ng/l 60-135
dihydrotestosteron 60 ng.l 22-123

Salvia cortisol
Morning 17 nmol/l 13-24
Noon 6 nmol/l 5-10
Afternoon 7 mol/l 3-8
Evening 1 nmol/l 1-4
DHEA-s 10 mg/l 3-10
cortisol-load 31 23-42

24-12-2012
Sedimentation mm/h 11
Hemoglobine mmol/l 9.3
Hematocriet l/l 0.44
MCV fl 94
Trombocyten x10 9/l 180
Leukocyten x10 9/l 3.9

Dif:
Basofielen x10 9/l 0.02
Eosinofielen x10 9/l 0.05
Segmenten x10 9/l 2.00
Lymfocyten x10 9/l 1.44
Monocyten x10 9/l 0.40
Kreatinine umol/l 83
eGFR MDRD4 ml/min >60
Natrium mmol/l 139
Kalium mmol/l 3.8
Calcium mmol/l 2.52
Albumine g/l 48.9
Glucose mmol/l 4.9
Vrij T4 pmol/l 18.5
TSH mU/l 2.43
Thiam. difosfaat (Vit. B1) nmol/l 149
Vitamine B6 nmol/l 131
Vitamine B12 pmol/l 485
LH U/l 3.0
FSH blood U/l 1.6
Testosteron nmol/l 12.29

Now i'm with a different doctor since that one wasn't able to help me further either. This one is doing even more extensive tests and also examined my body more closely. What he told me during the first consult is that i have a cold nose, hands and feet and he told me they looked a bit orange(my hands). Furthermore my tongue looked a bit white(but this is something i've had for a long time). Also he thought there might be something with my thyroid, but will tell me more about it when all the tests results are in.

What i've found/think could be related to my problems is the following:
  • "Although the mechanism of metronidazole toxicosis or how diazepam exerts its favorable effect is not known, it is likely related to modulation of the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor within the cerebellar and vestibular systems" PBMID: 12774970 (Sorry can't post links yet)
  • "MR imaging of metronidazole-induced encephalopathy: lesion distribution and diffusion-weighted imaging findings." PMID:17885234
  • Imbalance in the gut
  • Skin and hair damage due to higher sensitivity to the sun and that all other problems i'm having are a physiological side effect of that (Doubt this myself, since i was already having problems with erections and getting less joy from thigns i loved to do, before I noticed these changes)
  • Different hormone balance " Effect of metronidazole on spermatogenesis and FSH, LH and testosterone levels of pre-pubertal rats." PMID: 11906111
  • Some infection i ran into on my vacation a month before taking the metronidazole or side effects from vaccinations i took before going on vacation which symptoms became visible on coincidence during my Metronidazole use.
  • Also things i changed in the months before this happened is i stopped looking at porn, stopped using whey protein shakes(which i did for maybe 5 years with exception of some months)
  • Candida overgrowth, similar symptoms and associated with antibiotic use. However I don't know how much to believe from what is written about it. It seems like something that is easy to exploit for alternative medicine practitioners, since they cannot proof you have it, no one is ever cured from it completely and almost everyone that is sick will have some of his symptoms listed since the list is so long.

Oh yes one more thing, for my ADD i visited a Neurofeedback therapy center 6 years ago. Last month i've visited them again to see if they could see anything different in my EEG from now. He told me he saw a difference in the slower brainfrequencys, the so called "Delta band". Firstly the level of the frequency is low(Which means that there are too little brain cells working on that frequency) and also the coherency of the same brainfrequency is low. He says that those two things show that the brain misses stability which can lead to several, mostly, physical issues. These problems are often found in people with intoxication, and full anesthetics.

Ofcourse many other things changed in the course of five years and these differences could not be the cause of the adverse effects i'm having.


I hope someone can help me and give me some direction or even the answer on what is the cause of my problems!

Edited by Metronidazole, 13 January 2013 - 08:54 PM.


#2 Lufega

  • Guest
  • 1,810 posts
  • 274
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:06 PM

I found that sulbutiamine negates a lot of the side effects of metronidazole. A couple of weeks on it will make you feel like new. That and a b complex. Metro antagonizes B1 in the body and that causes most of the side effects. Incidently, sulbutiamine also helps erections.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this MEDICINES advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:23 AM

Thank you for your reply Lufega. I'm wondering though, is metronidazole capable of causing a low B1 over such a long period of time after using it. It's been almost 11 months now and is a B1 of 112-149 considered low for someone of my age?

Edited by Metronidazole, 15 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.


#4 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

Above blood values were mailed to me by my orthomoleculair doctor. However i just was skipping trough those papers i have and i see that in the blood work of 22-06-2012 the results of B1 in the email are incomplete.

It says:
  • TPP (Vit.B1) - 112 nmol/l
  • Thiamine(Vit.B1) - <25 nmol/l


#5 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:13 AM

Metronidazole, MTZ is an old drug with well-known side effects. What you describe is unprecedented in the long history of this drug.

Is it possible that you may have picked up some other bug on your vacation in Mexico? I mean other than a stomach bug. Why did you go to the doctor after your trip?

On the other hand, sometimes MTZ may bring up fungal infections, like candida, especially if you eate lotsa carbs while taking it. ..but you took MTZ only for a week..

I'd look either for candida or some other infection not cured by a short course of MTZ. Your doctor is right: what you describe is not caused by MTZ.
  • like x 1

#6 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

Thank you xEva for your reply. It is true that my side-effects are uncommon, however they are all listed as possible side-effects to the drug. I also found other people having the same problems after taking a course of Metronidazole.

The reason i went to the doctor was that i had some minor stomach problems after eating something wrong. I was having problems eating at times and wasn't able to keep it in. They did the research before i went to Mexico and when i came back the results were in and i was treated for the parasite with metronidazole. Today i received a call from my new doctor and he told me that they didn't find any parasites in my feces. I think that is what you mean with bugs right?

What my doctor also told me in the phonecall today is that i have 8 times the normal amount of candida in my system. They were able to find it in my blood, urine and feces. I did not eat a lot of carbs during my course of MTZ and i always eat healthy. I'm a little sceptical about candida though, why is it that it's not really acknowledged?

#7 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:58 AM

Thank you xEva for your reply. It is true that my side-effects are uncommon, however they are all listed as possible side-effects to the drug. I also found other people having the same problems after taking a course of Metronidazole.

The reason i went to the doctor was that i had some minor stomach problems after eating something wrong. I was having problems eating at times and wasn't able to keep it in. They did the research before i went to Mexico and when i came back the results were in and i was treated for the parasite with metronidazole. Today i received a call from my new doctor and he told me that they didn't find any parasites in my feces. I think that is what you mean with bugs right?

What my doctor also told me in the phonecall today is that i have 8 times the normal amount of candida in my system. They were able to find it in my blood, urine and feces. I did not eat a lot of carbs during my course of MTZ and i always eat healthy. I'm a little sceptical about candida though, why is it that it's not really acknowledged?


Why are you sceptical about candida? It is the most common 'side effect' of MTZ.

No need to despair though. You must have had it before you took MTZ. MTZ only brought it up to the surface.

There are supplements for your problem. One is curcumin. Another is garlic and alicin and such. Then there are 'proper drugs'. There is a lot of very effective things you can employ successfully if you care to google :)


Re: "why is it that it's not really acknowledged?" -- it is sortah acknowledged.. They used to recommend to drink losta 'fruit drinks' and 'juices' when taking MTZ. Nowadays they don't. There is no money in 'acknowledging it' 100%. This is the problem with the system. Nothing to do with you.

My take is, MTZ brought up your long-standing candida problem to the surface, which was just a symptom of a lowered immunity -- most likely due to your long-standing 'parasite problem', which MTZ rid you off (was it giargia? -- hey, I come from the 'giardiasis capital of the world' lol). Now all you need is to continue to eat right, take curcumin, curry, garlic and salsa.. ..and never-ever drink raw water from a faucet, especially in spring.. ..and of course have fun and.. :) soon you'll be as good as new.

Edited by xEva, 17 January 2013 - 03:01 AM.

  • like x 1

#8 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:39 AM

MTZ is notorious for causing peripheral neuropathy, and many (but not all) of the symptoms you listed can be caused by PN
  • like x 1
  • dislike x 1

#9 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

Why are you sceptical about candida? It is the most common 'side effect' of MTZ.

No need to despair though. You must have had it before you took MTZ. MTZ only brought it up to the surface.

There are supplements for your problem. One is curcumin. Another is garlic and alicin and such. Then there are 'proper drugs'. There is a lot of very effective things you can employ successfully if you care to google :)


Re: "why is it that it's not really acknowledged?" -- it is sortah acknowledged.. They used to recommend to drink losta 'fruit drinks' and 'juices' when taking MTZ. Nowadays they don't. There is no money in 'acknowledging it' 100%. This is the problem with the system. Nothing to do with you.

My take is, MTZ brought up your long-standing candida problem to the surface, which was just a symptom of a lowered immunity -- most likely due to your long-standing 'parasite problem', which MTZ rid you off (was it giargia? -- hey, I come from the 'giardiasis capital of the world' lol). Now all you need is to continue to eat right, take curcumin, curry, garlic and salsa.. ..and never-ever drink raw water from a faucet, especially in spring.. ..and of course have fun and.. :) soon you'll be as good as new.


Thank you again :), really appreciate the responses. I've been quite desperate over the passed year since the non-private doctors and specialists i visited in the hospital said i was perfectly healthy.

I'm a little sceptical because i read that everyone has Candida in their body and that it's impossible to be completely cured from. Furthermore I can't find much research besides about Trush and vaginal candida, which makes me wonder where the value for a "normal" amount of candiasis in the body is comming from. Also the list of symptoms is so long that almost anyone who has health problems can find their symptoms in the list.

Isn't it weird that if i have 8 times the normal value of Candida inside my body that it isn't visable as such anywhere on the outside?

Thanks for the advice for the supplements, i will look further into that. The private doctor i'm with right now is going to make a "plan" with things i can eat and can't eat, also what other things i should do and he's also planning to raise certain vitamin levels that are in range but could help recovering faster from this. Things he told me over the phone was Vit D, B12 (IV)and he also said it might be helpful to raise my testosteron levels a little since in the latest test they were below the normal range. Low testosterone is something i've always had though, something i really noticed when in the passed 7 years i was working out. Never cared to do anything about it though since i didn't have any problems besides gaining muscle. Low testosteron and mid range DHT.

What you said in the last paragraph sounds very likely. Before i started working out(was 17-18) i had a horrible diet, wouldn't eat much and ate a lot of sweets. When i started working out i switched that into a high protein diet which also seems to fuel the candida. I don't know exactly which parasite i had and still have(it was still in my feces in the recent test). Somehow it's something i keep forgetting the right second after it's mentioned. What i remember the doctor told me is that it's a parasite 30% of the Dutch population has and for most people it doesn't cause any problems.

Whats the giardiasis capital of the world? :) And do you know what's the reason for it?

How come parasites make the body more vulnerable for candida infections? Or is that parasites are the result of a bad environment in the gut, which goes hand in hand with candida?

#10 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:29 AM

Some other things the doctor mentioned yesterday in the phone call is that:
  • Vitamin A is too high
  • B12 is low
  • Copper is really low
  • Testosterone is low
  • Vitamin D is a little low (not so weird i would think since it's winter)
  • Serotonine is low
  • Gaba is low
  • Carnitine is low
All the other values were good according to him. I will get the exact results on the 4th of februari, this is his interpretation. Does this ring any bell together with my problems?

Also is this maybe a pattern seen in people who have a large amount of Candida in their body?

Last question :) isn't it weird that my other values are considered very healthy, since i would think the Candida would make it hard for all minerals and vitamins to be absorbed and not make a exception for a few?

Edited by Metronidazole, 17 January 2013 - 09:33 AM.


#11 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

MTZ is notorious for causing peripheral neuropathy, and many (but not all) of the symptoms you listed can be caused by PN


Thank you daouda. I've looked into peripheral neuropathy myself aswell. If i look at the symptoms on http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001619/, i don't recognize most of the symptoms. The ones i do recognize:
  • Sexual problems - I'm having regular morning erections though, just a little less firm and less of the feeling of excitement.
  • Tingling or burning in the arms and legs - I think this should be the same feeling as when you are sitting the wrong way, which results in a sleeping leg. I don't have this feeling, the only thing i notice is i have sleeping legs and arms a little bit more frequently while sleeping, but i think this is a result of my less stable sleep. Something i did notice was i had a kicking leg once in three days but this went away. I was laying down usually after sleeping and all of a sudden my right leg felt the urge to shoot up(Just once).
  • Bladder problems - But i don't leak urine or anything like that. Just have to go more often and feel a stronger urge to go faster.


#12 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

Some other things the doctor mentioned yesterday in the phone call is that:

  • Vitamin A is too high
  • B12 is low
  • Copper is really low
  • Testosterone is low
  • Vitamin D is a little low (not so weird i would think since it's winter)
  • Serotonine is low
  • Gaba is low
  • Carnitine is low
All the other values were good according to him. I will get the exact results on the 4th of februari, this is his interpretation. Does this ring any bell together with my problems?

Also is this maybe a pattern seen in people who have a large amount of Candida in their body?

Last question isn't it weird that my other values are considered very healthy, since i would think the Candida would make it hard for all minerals and vitamins to be absorbed and not make a exception for a few?


Been searching on all of those and was able to find direct relations except for Vitamin A and testosteron. Candida depletes B12, Serotonine, Gaba and Carnitine. Copper is a antifungal. Vitamin D stimulates the production of antimicrobial peptides, which attack the Candida.

#13 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

The parasite that i had and still have is from Blastocystis species. Just received the entire file with all the results

#14 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

Metro, imo you will not get rid of candida wile you have blasto, for which you have to take MTZ again or tinidazole (= similar drug, better tolerated by most people). Blasto strains your immune sys, which allows candida (and who knows what else) to proliferate.

And it is not true that most people have candida, which is pathogenic yeast. Check your probiotic supplement. Some have yeast added to help with loose bowels (which in your case is caused by blasto).

You have to up your hygiene. This includes washing hands before eating, not drinking water from the faucet, and discernment in choice of sexual partners (yeah, the basics). These little hustles help preserve health, without which, you already know, life ain't much fun.

Re 'giardiasis capital of the world': my old GP said that's how St.Petersburg, Russia, was referred to in gastroenterology journals of his day. The old water supply system gets invariably contaminated in spring, when the snow melts.

Good luck :)
  • like x 1

#15 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

In what way does the blasto make it difficult to get rid of the candida? My doctor told me he wanted to work on the Candida and a healthy balance first before trying to remove the blasto again, since i reacted so heavily to the MTZ. Do you think it's not possible to succeed in this that way?

The probiotic I'm using right now is Primal Defense ULTRA from Garden of Life, i don't see the yeast in the ingredients.

I'm very cautious with hygene and always have been. The parasite i suspect to have gotten from food in a restaurant from which i got very sick and what started the stomach problems. The only thing that might be a risk is my fiancee. She has used a LOT of antibiotics. However she is free of parasites and for candida i don't know. Should I worry for that? I don't know if Candida spreads like that easily.

You seem to know a lot about Candida and parasytes, could you have a look at two attached pictures of my research results?

http://img18.imagesh...beelding235.jpg
http://img203.images...beelding234.jpg

Do you see anything else that might help in my recovery?

#16 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

Blasto strains your immune sys. That's how it makes it difficult for it to also control candida. That's what parasites do. They manipulate the immune sys by either misdirecting it or poisoning it with their metabolites so that they can persists. Same for yeast. They are cuddly white little fur balls as long as there is enough carbs for them to eat. Once this changes --i.e. you go low-carb-- and these cute little fur balls find themselves starving, they change their form to mycelium, which is their invasive form conducive for their finding new sources of nutrients. The enzymes they emit dissolve the tissues surrounding them, allowing them to spread while their toxic metabolites kill immune cells on contact..

See? That;s why you got sick when you tried to switch to a low-carb diet. The yeast inside you did not like that change and went out spreading in search of nutrients. That's what this type of fungi do. Then their pathogenicity is measured by how successfully the host is able to withstand their onslaught -- and that engages both the immunity and the detox system. And if the immunity is already strained by the presence of another parasite.. then.. then you get what you got, lol. Not a big deal. It could have been something a lot worse. There are many scary bugs going around.

IMO you could have gotten balsto twice: the first time in that questionable restaurant and the second time somewhere else (after all, the population you come from, is 30% infected by the bug). Perhaps you also live in an old town with old water supply sys. If blasto spreads like giardia --and I don't know-- then you can get it from water. Or ice. Giargia cysts are resistant to reg, levels of chlorine and are too small to be filtered out by most systems. Blasto can be this way too -?

As for your pics I'm definitely not looking at them lol. I assume that;s your poop and I usually eat when reading the net for leisure. But I can tell you, for your future ref, that the evidence of parasites --beyond the obvious-- requires a microscope.

#17 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Blasto strains your immune sys. That's how it makes it difficult for it to also control candida. That's what parasites do. They manipulate the immune sys by either misdirecting it or poisoning it with their metabolites so that they can persists. Same for yeast. They are cuddly white little fur balls as long as there is enough carbs for them to eat. Once this changes --i.e. you go low-carb-- and these cute little fur balls find themselves starving, they change their form to mycelium, which is their invasive form conducive for their finding new sources of nutrients. The enzymes they emit dissolve the tissues surrounding them, allowing them to spread while their toxic metabolites kill immune cells on contact..

See? That;s why you got sick when you tried to switch to a low-carb diet. The yeast inside you did not like that change and went out spreading in search of nutrients. That's what this type of fungi do. Then their pathogenicity is measured by how successfully the host is able to withstand their onslaught -- and that engages both the immunity and the detox system. And if the immunity is already strained by the presence of another parasite.. then.. then you get what you got, lol. Not a big deal. It could have been something a lot worse. There are many scary bugs going around.

IMO you could have gotten balsto twice: the first time in that questionable restaurant and the second time somewhere else (after all, the population you come from, is 30% infected by the bug). Perhaps you also live in an old town with old water supply sys. If blasto spreads like giardia --and I don't know-- then you can get it from water. Or ice. Giargia cysts are resistant to reg, levels of chlorine and are too small to be filtered out by most systems. Blasto can be this way too -?

As for your pics I'm definitely not looking at them lol. I assume that;s your poop and I usually eat when reading the net for leisure. But I can tell you, for your future ref, that the evidence of parasites --beyond the obvious-- requires a microscope.


Hahahaa no i didn't upload pictures of my poop. It's just names of bacteria, fungi etc. I don't think that is so bad is it? :)

I see, thank you i understand! I will ask my doctor to see if we can take care of the blasto first with the tinidazole. From a other thread you posted in i read about some supplements you recommend for helping with candida.

The town i live in is fairly new and we have really good water comming from the tap. So i'm not getting it from that, really the only place i can think of for getting it from is food in restaurants. Ill stop doing that for a while atleast untill i'm at full strength again.

Edited by Metronidazole, 18 January 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#18 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Good for you lol. I never trust whatever they say about the water. I always boil the drinking water and keep in glass bottles.

As for your probiotic supplement, the very first ingredient they list is Saccharomyces boulardii, which is yeast. I suggest you trash that and get something with Acidophilus bifidus as the major ingredient.
  • dislike x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#19 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

xEva, why trash the S. Boulardii? Yes it's yeast, but not pathogenic (unless severely immunocompromised) and with many proven beneficial effects http://en.wikipedia....ii#Medical_uses
Also I wouldnt recomment you taking tinidazole if you're trying to recover from MTZ-induced peripheral neuropathy... tinidazole is better tolerated by most, that's true, but as a nitroimidazole it shares the same kind of neurotoxic properties MTZ displays... As less toxic options it would be more reasonable to try mebendazole or ivermectin, or even a combination of both.

Edited by daouda, 18 January 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#20 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

xEva, why trash the S. Boulardii? Yes it's yeast, but not pathogenic (unless severely immunocompromised) and with many proven beneficial effects http://en.wikipedia....ii#Medical_uses
Also I wouldnt recomment you taking tinidazole if you're trying to recover from MTZ-induced peripheral neuropathy... tinidazole is better tolerated by most, that's true, but as a nitroimidazole it shares the same kind of neurotoxic properties MTZ displays... As less toxic options it would be more reasonable to try mebendazole or ivermectin, or even a combination of both.


Even after what i posted you still think it could be peripheral neuropathy? Shouldn't i experience more then 3 of the symptoms?

#21 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

Not all of it is PN, but
- Very difficult to get a erection
- Less firm erections
- Sore neck and shoulders (can be neuropathic pains)
- Dry eyes
- Dry mouth
- Joint pain (can actually be neuropathic pains, yes it happens)
- Feeling the urge to urinate stronger and a lot sooner
Can absolutely be caused by peripheral neuropathies. Trust me.
Plus the tingling/burning in arms and legs is 100% PN

Edited by daouda, 18 January 2013 - 11:55 PM.


#22 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

Good for you lol. I never trust whatever they say about the water. I always boil the drinking water and keep in glass bottles.

As for your probiotic supplement, the very first ingredient they list is Saccharomyces boulardii, which is yeast. I suggest you trash that and get something with Acidophilus bifidus as the major ingredient.


Thank you, can't believe i missed that! I'll look for one without the yeast

#23 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:17 AM

xEva, why trash the S. Boulardii? Yes it's yeast, but not pathogenic (unless severely immunocompromised) and with many proven beneficial effects http://en.wikipedia....ii#Medical_uses
Also I wouldnt recomment you taking tinidazole if you're trying to recover from MTZ-induced peripheral neuropathy... tinidazole is better tolerated by most, that's true, but as a nitroimidazole it shares the same kind of neurotoxic properties MTZ displays... As less toxic options it would be more reasonable to try mebendazole or ivermectin, or even a combination of both.


daouda, I missed your post at first. Why are you recommending mebemdazole or ivermectin, which are normally prescribed against nematodes? Blasto is a protist. A unicellular protozoan, for which MTZ and tinidazole are the drugs of choice.

As for the 'bakers yeast', the latest genetic research on them revealed that what before was considered different species are in fact various phenotypes of the same organism. I learned it the hard way. I used to like a 'bakers yeast' supplement, and on my 3rd jar finally run into a problem. I started to fast and those little buggers did not like complete absence of nutrients. That's when I experienced peripheral neuropathy and burning and freaked out and learned everything there is to know about the creeps. I have not touched anything with yeast ever since and have not had a problem.

The info on 'medical uses of yeast' has changed in the past decade. They have their use when you're faced with cholera, or toxic strain of E.coli, or clostridium.. then yeah, better yeast than dying from uncontrollable diarrhea. Other than that, the problems yeast give are not worth their benefits. And why take something which can lead to fatal fungemia when your immune sys goes down (say, due to a trauma in an automobile accident)?

Then they don't let one fast (and I fast regularly) nor do they let one go low-carb. That's when they reveal their ugly nature. Otherwise, if your diet is based on carbs and you never fast, the worst they will give is chronic constipation. lol I don;t know what's worse.

#24 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

I go mostly low carb and fast regulary, never had a problem with SB (I dont take them on fasting days though, of course)
I suggested mebendazole and ivermectin because in case of neuropathy I would rather take ANYTHING than a neurotoxic nitroimidazole... I must say I read through the parasite part of this thread quickly and thought the problematic parasite was giardia (against which these drugs are effective). Indeed hey dont seem indicated in case of blastocystis. I suffer from peripheral neuropathies myself (many of the symptoms shared by the OP) caused by fluoroquinolone abx, and would rather try anything else in the face of parasites than metroni or tinidazole. Anything.
  • dislike x 1

#25 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

Well, first, giardia is also a unicellular protist (with 2 cute little nuclei, which make it look as if it has 2 eyes lol) while ivermectin and mebendazole are still for worms. Second, IMHO it is the yeast you take, apparently regularly, that cause your PN. The abx you mention do not cause neurotoxicity. It is yeast that go wild after administration of these drugs that cause it, because these drugs wipe out their competition. The metabolites of invasive form of yeast are neurotoxic. People who do not have yeast to begin with do not experience the side effects you describe after taking these drugs.

PS

and by the way, the real fast starts on the 3rd day. I do not believe you can fast that long, less so longer, if you have yeast in your system.

Edited by xEva, 19 January 2013 - 03:16 AM.

  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1

#26 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:03 AM

Wow. I never took sac. B until looooong after I got PN from fluoroquinolones (they also gave me c. diff and I take sac B against it). You are highly misinformed if you allow yourself to affirm that "these antibiotics do not cause neurotoxicity". Please refrain from posting definite assertions like this when you do not know what youre talking about, Do the research yourself, unless you want me to plaster this thread with dozens of studies and THOUSANDS of anecdotal reports. The widespread misinformation and ignorance about these drugs is appaling. As a victim of fluoroquinolones it s my duty to correct you and sorry if I sound harsh but people need to know better now, its really about time. " People who do not have yeast to begin with do not experience the side effects you describe after taking these drugs." is utter and complete horsecrap.

About giardia and ivermectin and mebendazole, a pubmed search will tell you they have proven effective for this application.

And I fast precisely 4 days every time I do fast (about 1 time a month). Beleive it or not.

Edited by daouda, 19 January 2013 - 04:04 AM.

  • dislike x 1

#27 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:50 AM

Wow. The first pick at mebendazole and giardia (as of 2001) gave exactly the opposite from what you claim and instead confirmed the well-known fact, i.e. "[we report]...the failure to decrease the prevalence rates of Giardia when mebendazole was used in mass treatment of helminths...".

And then this thread was about metronidazole, not flouroquinolones, which is entirely different class of drugs.


#28 daouda

  • Guest
  • 469 posts
  • 109
  • Location:France

Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

Listen, I wont lie, I dont know much about parasites and how to treat them (besides malaria which Im very familiar with) and surely am not qualified to give medical advice on this particular problem, but one thing I know for sure is that it is unbelievably irresponsible to advise someone to take the neurotoxic tinidazole when that person is very likely to still be suffering from the neurotoxic effects of metronidazole... About MTZ alternatives for giardia and the "well known fact" (according to you) that mebendazole is ineffective : This is an old study (1993), on children, but the conclusion is "In conclusion, the use of mebendazole, which is less toxic [than MTZ] with no side effects, is available and effective on Giardia intestinalis as well as intestinal nematodes, is recommended especially in the areas where giardiasis and intestinal nematodiasis are prevalent and overlap." This one is from 2008. "A single 2-g dose of tinidazole is the best treatment (strength of recommendation [SOR]: A, based on meta-analysis). Other drugs, such as nitazoxanide, metronidazole, mebendazole, and albendazole, can also be used (SOR: A, based on randomized controlled trial [RCT] of patient-oriented outcomes), but tinidazole has a higher clinical cure rate than these drugs. It also has a comparable side-effect profile and requires only 1 dose." ("Comparable side effects profile" is definitely misleading in this study.) About ivermectin and giardia, here s one, on rats... . I know a doc whom recommends the ivermectin/mebendazole combo for many parasitic infections with success and low side effects profile thats why I mentionned it.

I will note your view on Sac B with interest, however. I will also note that you arent talking about fluoroquinolones anymore, so I get youre admitting your mistake, even though you voted my post down. This is the most important for me.

Metronidazole, I guess the take home lesson from this is you really should take any medical advice from random people over the internet with a HUGE pinch of salt. Following my quinolone disaster I have even learned that you shoudl take medical advices from DOCTORS with a huge pinch of salt too... especially when it comes to drugs side effects.

I'm out of this thread, good luck MTZ, I'm sure youll recover.

Edited by daouda, 19 January 2013 - 03:49 PM.

  • like x 1
  • dislike x 1

#29 xEva

  • Guest
  • 1,594 posts
  • 24
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

lol dauda you're the only one here who talked about fluoroquinolones. The OP spoke of MTZ (it's the subject!) and I recommended tinidazole as more effective and better tolerated drug of the same class. You interjected that the OP should take neither because you took some other drug and it caused you problems, which, you insisted, the OP also had, even though he denied it. Then you recommended to him several other drugs never used for what he has and continued to insist that your recommendation should be followed as the only sound one, even though, by your own admission, you skimmed the part about what exactly ailed him and later on admitted that your only expertise in these drugs consisted in random shots at pubmed.

In the end you accused me of all the sins committed by yourself in this thread ..lol.. and effectively recommended the OP to never ask for advice, not on the net, nor from a doctor... I will upvote you today, cause you gave me a good laugh :)
  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this MEDICINES advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#30 Metronidazole

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 22
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:31 AM

I'm convinced myself now that it is the candida together with the blastocystus what is causing my problems. Thank you for answerring my questions xEva, it made it a lot clearer for me.

I was reading on different links about Nitazoxanide which seems very effective in removing blastocystis. 86% succesrate in this study http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16234044 and for MTZ i was reading about 36%-40% succes rates. Do you have any experience with this medicin? I wonder why they didn't use this in the first place since when i am searching for sideeffects they are a lot less severe too.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: metronidazole

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users