15 replies to this topic

[kevinspaceyisunderrated]

I'm am currently in uni and have to do a decent amount of public speaking for a couple of courses. For years I have experienced an accelerated heart rate and severe anxiety when speaking in from of my classmates and would like to mitigate, or at least avoid aggravating, this condition. I'm currently taking piracetam everyday with choline CDP (I just ordered Alpha GPC for the first time and will likely try it next week). I also have been experimenting with aniracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam, and noopept. I'm interested in taking any one of these alone, or in combination with piracetam if they have had an anti-anxiety effect on any of you. I'd also like to know if any of the previously mentioned nootropics are known to increase anxiety, so I know to avoid them before class. I've looked into phenibut, but it seems too addictive, so I'd like to try something I already have experience with.

[ineeddrugs]

i would reccomend staying away from pramiracetam for public speaking , not that it increses anxiety, it just sometimes makes you too focused on what you are saying that you will ponder until you have found the right word. Aklthough today iI tried oxi pram and noopept and I have found this pondering a has ceased,. I would reccomend aniracetam and alpha gpc for public speaking.

[jonnyD]

+1 for aniracetam. Calm and clear.

Prami makes my mind racing and i sometimes forget what i already said.

[Turnbuckle]

Propranolol will do the trick. It breaks the vicious cycle of a racing heart and anxiety, and eventually your body will learn and you won't need anything.

[swich401]

I'm am currently in uni and have to do a decent amount of public speaking for a couple of courses. For years I have experienced an accelerated heart rate and severe anxiety when speaking in from of my classmates and would like to mitigate, or at least avoid aggravating, this condition. I'm currently taking piracetam everyday with choline CDP (I just ordered Alpha GPC for the first time and will likely try it next week). I also have been experimenting with aniracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam, and noopept. I'm interested in taking any one of these alone, or in combination with piracetam if they have had an anti-anxiety effect on any of you. I'd also like to know if any of the previously mentioned nootropics are known to increase anxiety, so I know to avoid them before class. I've looked into phenibut, but it seems too addictive, so I'd like to try something I already have experience with.

Combination of low dose 5-HTP during the day (50mg), a medium dose of theanine (50-100mg), and 20-50mg of caffeine --> my wining combination for public speaking at university.

[Adaptogen]

Propranolol will do the trick. It breaks the vicious cycle of a racing heart and anxiety, and eventually your body will learn and you won't need anything.

i like the sound of this. do you think propranolol/beta blockers are effective tools in assisting exposure therapy? I have never really had any luck with gaba agonists, but then again, i have never really attempted exposure therapy.



as for public speaking: magnesium, bacopa, theanine, taurine, valerian. any combination of those would probably be pretty effective and much better than phenibut

Edited by Adaptogen, 24 January 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Propranolol will do the trick. It breaks the vicious cycle of a racing heart and anxiety, and eventually your body will learn and you won't need anything.

i like the sound of this. do you think propranolol/beta blockers are effective tools in assisting exposure therapy?

Probably in some cases. And here is another wrinkle--

Using a differential fear conditioning procedure in humans, we replicated our previous findings by showing that administering propranolol (40mg) prior to memory reactivation eliminated the startle fear response 24h later. But most importantly, this effect persisted at one month follow-up. Notably, the propranolol manipulation not only left the declarative memory for the acquired contingency untouched, but also skin conductance discrimination. In addition, a close association between declarative knowledge and skin conductance responses was found. These findings are in line with the supposed double dissociation of fear conditioning and declarative knowledge relative to the amygdala and hippocampus in humans. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20381628

It seems that the emotion associated with a fearful memory can be erased by treatment with propranolol before remembering the event, and the erasure is permanent.

[Adaptogen]

I might have to get some, breaking the cycle is really what I need, for panic and anxiety. That or maybe meditation for a couple hours a day would assist me.

would you recommend Propranolol over other beta blockers?

[Turnbuckle]

I might have to get some, breaking the cycle is really what I need, for panic and anxiety. That or maybe meditation for a couple hours a day would assist me.

would you recommend Propranolol over other beta blockers?

I can't recommend one over the others as I haven't taken the others.

[Adaptogen]

Thanks for the response. have you personally experienced the extinguishing of fear-memory associations?

[kevinspaceyisunderrated]

I just obtained a prescription for Propranolol. How long before the public speaking event should I take it?

[jadamgo]

Propranolol is superior to other beta-blockers because it can cross the blood-brain barrier and directly inhibit fear responses within the brain. Other beta-blockers only decrease some of the bodily sensations associated with fear; propranolol decreases some of the mental components of it too.

[cuprous]

I know this is old but as I have experience here...

Propranolol is great at arresting your somatic fight-or-flight response. I remember the first time I took it and was put in a situation that would normally send my heart rate skyrocketing leaving me with shaking hands, a cracking voice, and a desire to leave the room at warp speed. I could almost feel my adrenal glands dumping adrenaline into my system but .. incredibly .. my heart rate didn't change. For people whose lizard brains are over active this can be a truly wonder drug. I take 10mg with a very small dose of alprazolan as needed and approximately 30-45 mins before the event. Occasionally I will take another 5 mg dose 10 mins before as an added buffer. As turnbuckle notes it can help break the cycle of feedback loops that lead to anxiety / panic. My understanding is that it is used a lot by politicians, performers, etc. You'll need to experiment a little with dosage -- I'm a bit surprised to read about people taking 50+mg as that seems like a high dose to me but everybody is different. Negative side effects can be fatigue and depression but both are transient in my case.

I also strongly encourage meditation as part of your training. Propranolol should be viewed as a tool to help you adjust. Fine if you need it longer term too but ideally we want to evolve as persons and establish proper perspectives so that things like public speaking are not viewed by our bodies as being life-threatening emergencies.

[_alex_]

Propranolol is just like any other crutch, at least from my own experience. You might not mentally relate the experience to the same type of anxiety as before but you will create new anxiety of getting nervous if you DON'T take Propranolol before an event. Since it is your brain on Propranolol that overcomes it and not your brain without it.

[cuprous]

Propranolol is just like any other crutch, at least from my own experience. You might not mentally relate the experience to the same type of anxiety as before but you will create new anxiety of getting nervous if you DON'T take Propranolol before an event. Since it is your brain on Propranolol that overcomes it and not your brain without it.

Sorry but I disagree. I totally understand that one can become dependent on propranolol if they think of it as the only way to handle anxiety-provoking situations but if you use it as a tool to get through that same experience you can realize "huh, I didn't die giving that speech, maybe it's not such a big deal."

[_alex_]

Propranolol is just like any other crutch, at least from my own experience. You might not mentally relate the experience to the same type of anxiety as before but you will create new anxiety of getting nervous if you DON'T take Propranolol before an event. Since it is your brain on Propranolol that overcomes it and not your brain without it.

Sorry but I disagree. I totally understand that one can become dependent on propranolol if they think of it as the only way to handle anxiety-provoking situations but if you use it as a tool to get through that same experience you can realize "huh, I didn't die giving that speech, maybe it's not such a big deal."

That's alright, we don't have to agree Well you won't die feeling anxious either. The problem is you still don't handle/solve the problem yourself, and somewhere deep down in your brain you will always know this. I think any psychologist/therapist working with anxiety would agree with me, at least my own does. The human brain always goes for the least painful solution even if it does not work long term and might be worse long term, personally I think propranolol and any benzo is just that. I also base it from own experience and that of others I know in the same situations. Just my five cents.