12 replies to this topic

[John2009]

Should we be concerned with the risk of contracting the human variant of mad cow disease called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) by ingesting supplements that may contain gelatin that is contaminated with Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) ?

What concerns me about mad cow disease is it's long incubation period. I had read once that it was suspected that some cases of alzheimer's or dementia may actually be related to or caused by BSE, but mistaken for alzheimers or dementia.

I know that the bones of cattle are used in gelatin production. It seems to me that if bones are used, then ligaments, tendons, marrow, blood, and connective tissues will get in the mix as well. When scraps are used for gelatin production, who knows what might get in the mix. I tend to think that high risk materials would get into the mix, even if the official practice is to keep them out.

Prions can withstand a great deal of heat and are extremely hard to deactivate. I do not think that the gelatin production process would deactivate the prions if infected materials are used.

Japan tests 100% of it's beef for mad cow and Britain tests 70 percent of its beef cattle but the United States tests only a small percentage according to the center for food safety. Even China had a ban on US beef, which is really kind of scary.

Here are some links with information on Mad Cow disease and gelatin...

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/

http://www.aphis.usd...bse/index.shtml

http://www.centerfor...ad-cow-disease/

https://en.wikipedia..._encephalopathy

http://www.gelatin-gmia.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,
John

[Clarity]

I've heard it would take a nuclear explosion to kill prions. Just sayin'.

I try not to think about BSE as it can freak me out a bit. I've got a terrible memory the past year or so...sometimes I wonder. I was using gelatin, but at the advice of Luminosity I switched to chicken collagen. I don't pay attention to whether I'm taking vegcaps or not, but I should make it a habit. I eat much less beef than I use to.

[ta5]

I've been wondering about this too. I've been consuming a lot of gelatin lately to try and help my joints and tendons, not to mention skin, hair and blood vessels.

A lot of people eat gelatin every day. A lot. There are Jell-O cups, Knox blocks, gummy bears, other gelatin desserts. Gelatin is an ingredient in many food products. If there was a risk, there must be a billion people at risk.

[Clarity]

Oh geeze, got to kick the gummy bear addiction.

In all seriousness, I didn't even think of the various foods that have gelatin as an ingredient. It's downright scary how little our beef is tested.

[renfr]

If it was made in the UK there might be a risk.
Alzheimer's is not CJD, the symptoms aren't the same at all however both diseases are caused by protein degenration. (prpc for CJD and tau protein for alzheimer's)
Prions need to be heated to some hundred degrees with a pression of 100 000 PSI (7000 bars, compare with the pression of a bicycle/car wheel which is 5 bars).
However recently (in 2011), three lichens species have been found to degrade the prion protein, among them the cladina rangiferina.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21589935
It's a relief that we've found something that could destroy this almighty protein, it will probably have to be studied more intensevely and preparations which can cross BBB will have to be made.
However it will only slow down the process as it doesn't destroy all the prions but a vast majority.
But the best way to protect yourself from prions is antioxidants and a proper health, reducing meat intake can also help, a strong immune system can delay the prion process significantly.
Most of these first vCJD cases probably had a weak immune system or ate really too much meat byproducts (it's the byproducts that are more at risk of having the prion).
The incubation period as seen in indigenous with kuru diseases is at least 34 years and up to 50 years which might explain "sporadic" CJD. Cannibalism was forbidden in the 1960s and yet in the early 2000s some thousands came at the hospital with these symptoms something that never happened before.
This is quite worry as this would mean that there might be a new prion outbreak as early as 2020, millions who ate british beef in the 1980s could be affected.

[Turnbuckle]

Oh crap, John. My wife told me recently that there's pus in milk, and now I'm too squeamish to drink it, and now you tell me the FDA isn't protecting us from mad cow disease? It's most discouraging.

[niner]

My wife told me recently that there's pus in milk, and now I'm too squeamish to drink it

The vegans' diabolical plan is working...

As far as the risk of BSE from gelatin, I think that the vast consumption of Jello and other gelatin products over the past century, and the extremely low level of prion diseases we see in humans is suggestive that the risk is essentially nil.

One caveat, though: If animal husbandry practices have changed relatively recently in a way that would make prion diseases more likely, the Jello argument may fail. One could argue that this is the case, or was. I recall that changes were made to make prion transmission less likely shortly after the Mad Cow scare of some while back, which means that things were worse previously, though I don't know how long the problems may have existed, or if they were better or worse in the distant past.

[Clarity]

Oh crap, John. My wife told me recently that there's pus in milk, and now I'm too squeamish to drink it, and now you tell me the FDA isn't protecting us from mad cow disease? It's most discouraging.

I remember hearing that. I'd all but forgotten it. Ugh, thanks for reminding me. Think I'm going back to that ultra filtered milk I use to drink.

[MrSpud]

There is very little risk from gelatin, especially in comparison to eating processed meat. There was actually a study done in the 90s where they added prion infected tissues to cattle parts and then made gelatin out of them and then tested the material for the presence of prions. Acid processed gelatin reduced the amounts of prions to an extremely small level. Limed processed gelatin reduced the amounts of prions even more. However, neither process completely eliminated the prions. However it is unknown how many prions would have to be ingested to result in a prion disease. Like if you ate gelatin that contained one prion you probably wouldn't get a prion disease. But if you ate processed meat that contained nervous system tissue infected with prions you would ingest a whole bunch of prions. And that study was done by deliberately adding infected tissue to the cattle parts used to make the gelatin when normally there would be much less infected tissue present. Also, only people who are either homozygous or heterozygous (I can't remember which) at codon 129 can get a prion disease from cows. Only if you have the same configuration as a cow at that codon you are susceptible, otherwise you are immune. I'll poke around and see if I can find the abstract to the gelatin prion study, I'm writing this from memory.

[MrSpud]

http://books.google....n study&f=false

If the link above works properly it goes to a google book page that summarizes the study I mentioned and makes conclusions

[MrSpud]

Here's something talking about that codon 129 thingy http://vir.sgmjourna...8/2443.full.pdf

[John2009]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I hope the book Mrspud linked to is correct in what is says in the conclusion section.

Here is something I found on the codon 129 stuff...

http://www.thelancet...3366-1/fulltext

What concerns me is that if the incubation period is 10, 20, or 30 years, then we could all be infected right now and not even know it.

Should BSE be a reason for not consuming beef ? Should we only stay away from hot dogs, hamburger, and processed meats ? Would it be safe to consume choice cuts of beef ? How many of you guys eat hot dogs every once in a while ?

I know that bison are only open range fed by law, so it would seem that eating bison would be more safe.

Another thing to consider is that almost all meat is processed on the same equipment that processes the beef and it would seem that contamination could occur to a non-beef product via that rout.

When it comes to supplements, do most of you guys consume supplements that contain gelatin or other ingredients derived from bovine sources and not worry about BSE ? I prefer veggie caps when I can get them, but I cannot always get them in the product I want or at the price I want.

[Adam Kadmon]

I bought a bottle of Super K from Life Extension and after taking one capsule  noticed they are Gelatin. Bovine sourced  according to LEF Adviser.

 

 I tried to understand the  actual source of the capsule but they  refused to  state that source.

 

 For most of the past few decades I have strictly avoided all beef sourced  consumables.

 

How do you convince yourself  suppliers and manufacturers can be trusted never to place  money ahead of health  and never supply any animal that may have been infected with BSE?

 

 I know there is zero PRION deactivating effect during any stage of processing .

 

The best anyone can say is the chances are almost nil  infected material will enter this supply chain.

 

 Since  you can develop CJDv from a single Prion decades  post consumption.

 

 I am simply unable to  have any  peace of mind when I think of  finishing this $28 bottle of Vitamin K ..

 

I doubt the Vitamin Shoppe will issue me a refund or  exchange since I opened it and the label contained the ingredients.

 

 How do you quench your  concerns?

 

Human greed will never surprise me  and though it is said Gelatin is sourced from  connective tissue which do not hold  prions  if an animal is infected and slips into the supply chain can you ever be certain  cross contamination will never allow prions to find  their way into a finished product ?

 

is there any factual information  that I can  use to conclude these capsule   are absolutely free from any risk of prion contamination?