18 replies to this topic

[moleface]

I'm curious if any long-term noopept users could provide me with any feedback on this.

I was wondering if anyone here has taken noopept without going through the recommended "washout" period - and if so, were there any noticeable consequences when you finally stopped taking it? I've been taking it for two straight months now, and I'm hesitant to cycle off because I just started my first year of college after fifteen years away from school and my nootropic regimen seems to be helping me quite a bit.

Just to be on the safe side, I'm probably going to still stop the noopept for a month and then temporarily replace it with a different racetam(or maybe even anafranil), but I was just curious if anyone here has experienced any obvious cognitive deficits after taking noopept for extended periods.

Thanks!

[moleface]

I'd also like to know how effective others have found it to switch out one racetam for another. I'm considering briefly going off piracetam and replacing it with aniracetam. The piracetam hasn't lost any effectiveness for me, but I'm just on a tight budget and I happen to have plenty of noopept and aniracetam on hand and only a couple weeks' supply of piracetam left.

[pedr0vsky]

Noopept as all other neuropeptides can be taken: 14 consecutive days OR 4 times 5 consecutive days separated by 2 days off. If you keep taken them after this period you will have desensitization and consequently diminish, loss of effect.
As with all neuropeptides, cerebrolysin, semax and noopept, after you stop taking them you will have withdrawal symptoms on the third day after you stop, and that's all, just one day. The washout is 2 months, for all of them. I don't recommend you switching to another racetam because they work on the same receptors and will prevent the receptors from recover from the desensitization.
After you stoped noopept there's an obvious absent effect because the drug isn't in you system, other than that, because of noopept's strong nootropic effects, your brain will actually work better due to the improvement the drug made to your brain (synaptic, neuronal, etc etc, improvements...) when you were on it. So, no obvious cognitive deficits, your brain actually is working better after you take it.  12-01-05_0735.jpg   96.07KB   34 downloads  12-01-05_0736.jpg   107.15KB   22 downloads

Edited by pedr0vsky, 17 February 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Divien]

Source?

[Strelok]

That's some interesting info, pedr0vsky, but what is your source for this? I've been reading a lot about nootropics recently (certainly still a novice, though), and that's the first I've read/heard anything of the sort.

[pedr0vsky]

Source?

That's some interesting info, pedr0vsky, but what is your source for this? I've been reading a lot about nootropics recently (certainly still a novice, though), and that's the first I've read/heard anything of the sort.

What specific part of the text you want source to?

[Strelok]

This

14 consecutive days OR 4 times 5 consecutive days separated by 2 days off. If you keep taken them after this period you will have desensitization and consequently diminish, loss of effect.

and this

As with all neuropeptides.... and noopept, after you stop taking them you will have withdrawal symptoms on the third day after you stop, and that's all, just one day. The washout is 2 months, for all of them.

[pedr0vsky]

This

14 consecutive days OR 4 times 5 consecutive days separated by 2 days off. If you keep taken them after this period you will have desensitization and consequently diminish, loss of effect.

and this

As with all neuropeptides.... and noopept, after you stop taking them you will have withdrawal symptoms on the third day after you stop, and that's all, just one day. The washout is 2 months, for all of them.

Regarding your first quote:

Cerebrolysin:

"A normal dose is about a 5ml ampoule injected either in the muscle or in the vein each day for 5 days, then repeated for a period of 4 weeks. After a 2 month treatment break, the cycle is repeated."
"Duration of Treatment 10 - 20 infusion days. "

That's the standard protocol used by doctors worldwide for cerebrolysin.

Source: (couldn't find better ones)

http://www.antiaging...94-cerebrolysin
http://www.schumit.c...ult.asp?pgid=57

Noopept:

"After 14-20 days of treatment revealed a positive effect of the drug on cognitive function, attention and memory options."
"The duration of the course of treatment is 1.5 - 3 months. Second course of treatment if necessary, can be done in 1 month."

Source:
http://translate.goo....ru/instrukcia/

Semax:

"Semax ^® nasal drops 0.1%
...
The drug is administered daily for 3-5 days, if necessary, treatment extend to 14 days"

"In severe stroke at a time is entered with 3-4 drops in each nostril
...
The drug is administered daily for 10 days."

The dosage increases, the duration of treatment diminishes.

Source:
http://translate.goo...dex_id_5678.htm

In all of the three peptides you can increase the dosage and diminish the duration of the treatment or you can extend the duration of the treatment and diminish the dosage.
For a regular dosage, 5ml IM cerebrolysin, 20mg/ day noopept or 2, 3 drops in each nostril of semax the treatment should be 14 consecutive days or 4 times 5 consecutive days. If you extend this you will get progressive desensitization. I say this based on sources (not necessarily the sources above) that i researched and my own personal experience.


Regarding your second quote:

My extensive personal experience on all three.

[Strelok]

Ok, thanks for the info!

ETA:

From the Noopept link you posted:

Dosage and administration
Noopept ^{® is} used in, after a meal. Treatment starts with the drug at a dose of 20 mg, 10 mg distributed on two stages throughout the day (morning and afternoon). With the lack of treatment efficacy and good tolerability of the drug dose Noopept ^® was increased to 30 mg (see "Special Instructions"), distributed over 10 mg three meals during the day. You should not take the drug within 18 hours. The duration of the course of treatment is 1.5 - 3 months. Second course of treatment if necessary, can be done in 1 month.

What the heck does that mean? I don't understand what the context is for the bolded statement.

Edited by Strelok, 17 February 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Divien]

It probably means after 6 PM (might be hard to fall asleep, etc).

[Strelok]

It probably means after 6 PM (might be hard to fall asleep, etc).

Ok, that makes sense. I assumed something was lost in translation.

[pedr0vsky]

It probably means after 6 PM (might be hard to fall asleep, etc).

I am not sure, but i think Divien is probably right.

[pedr0vsky]

It probably means after 6 PM (might be hard to fall asleep, etc).

I am not sure, but i think Divien is probably right.

On the same subject i found a translated package insert:

photos.imageevent.com/diydefense/awakebrain/NoopeptInsertEnglish.pdf

i found it here: http://awakebrain.com/noopept.html

it completely skips that phrase, strange.

The duration of the course of treatment is 1.5 - 3 months. Second course of treatment if necessary, can be done in 1 month.

I also read this, and from my experience the potency of noopept starts to decline after the 14th ou 20th day, you can stretch the duration of the treatment but you will get desensitization and loss of potency.(Not much, though) That's only my opinion based on my experience.
Best Regards

Edited by pedr0vsky, 17 February 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[moleface]

Thanks for the replies. That's interesting info.

I'm a bit confused though, since you seem to be saying that it's required to cycle off all racetams. I was under the impression that "traditional" ones like Piracetam weren't necessary to cycle off, and that noopept was the only one with any sort of recommended washout period. And if I understand correctly, it sounds like the only negative aspect of long-term use would be that the substances become less effective. I was more concerned about the possibility of any detrimental physical changes in the brain - some sort of permanent downregulation or something along those lines.

Personally, I haven't noticed any dip in my piracetam's effects even after taking 3g 2-3x a day for over 8 months. I continue to consistently get the same results - increased vividness of visuals, music sounds more textured and lush etc. I honestly never noticed an increase in verbal fluidity or memory beyond the very first dose. I take the stuff because I enjoy the sensory enhancement and I'm also hoping to promote neurogenesis in my brain that spent years being ravaged by alcohol and PTSD. Regardless of any other possible benefits, the sensory enhancing effects are really awesome, and I'm hesitant to ever go off piracetam as long as this lasts.

I actually never noticed pronounced changes in learning or memory from any of the racetams on their own until I started stacking them together. Now that I'm taking noopept along with piracetam, I'm starting to get results like I was originally looking for. Adding aniracetam to the mix didn't seem to change the character of the effects all that much, but it might be too early to tell.

Edited by moleface, 18 February 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[pedr0vsky]

Thanks for the replies. That's interesting info.

I'm a bit confused though, since you seem to be saying that it's required to cycle off all racetams. I was under the impression that "traditional" ones like Piracetam weren't necessary to cycle off, and that noopept was the only one with any sort of recommended washout period. And if I understand correctly, it sounds like the only negative aspect of long-term use would be that the substances become less effective. I was more concerned about the possibility of any detrimental physical changes in the brain - some sort of permanent downregulation or something along those lines.

I didn't say it is necessary to cycle all racetams. I only said that is necessary to cycle all neuropeptides. Tradicional racetams will also lose efficacy with time, you will have to cycle them eventually. (But it is a much slower process)

I was more concerned about the possibility of any detrimental physical changes in the brain - some sort of permanent downregulation or something along those lines.

No.

I take the stuff because I enjoy the sensory enhancement and I'm also hoping to promote neurogenesis in my brain that spent years being ravaged by alcohol and PTSD.

You have PTSD and are taking racetams that are memory enhancing/recalling drugs!?
I don't want to offend you, but you are crazy.

[moleface]

You have PTSD and are taking racetams that are memory enhancing/recalling drugs!?
I don't want to offend you, but you are crazy.

Nah, I'm not offended - I already openly acknowledged that I was crazy when I admitted that I have PTSD.

Anyway - it sounds like you're half joking, but I really don't think that the memory enhancing effect of racetams should have any impact on the vividness of flashbacks, the intensity of my day to day anxiety, or anything like that. I've only found a marked improvement in my mood and overall cognitive functioning ever since I started the piracetam, and these improvements have gotten even stronger as I've added on other nootropics. The racetams have done a lot to mitigate the severe foggy, disoriented feeling I have all the time from existing in a constant state of panic. I used to have daily panic attacks for a couple decades straight, so I'm trying to take any neuroprotective agents I can get my hands on to try to counter some of the havoc that excess cortisol has been wreaking on my brain tissue for so many consecutive years.

Edited by moleface, 18 February 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[pedr0vsky]

You said earlier that your brain was ravaged by alcohol. Have you ever tried sulbuthiamine? I strongly recommend it.

[moleface]

You said earlier that your brain was ravaged by alcohol. Have you ever tried sulbuthiamine? I strongly recommend it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm familiar with the name, but I haven't tried it yet. I'll look into it.

To clarify - I don't drink alcohol at all and I currently go out of my way to avoid anything that's even remotely neurotoxic. But for years I drank heavily to cope with my constant anxiety. I was drunk for literally every waking minute for a period of several years, then I cut back a bit but binge drank 4-5 days a week for a few more years after that. I'm hoping that maintaining a healthy diet, taking nootropics, and abstaining altogether from any brain-damaging substances will make up for the 5 or so years of hardcore brain abuse.

[Strelok]

You said earlier that your brain was ravaged by alcohol. Have you ever tried sulbuthiamine? I strongly recommend it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm familiar with the name, but I haven't tried it yet. I'll look into it.

To clarify - I don't drink alcohol at all and I currently go out of my way to avoid anything that's even remotely neurotoxic. But for years I drank heavily to cope with my constant anxiety. I was drunk for literally every waking minute for a period of several years, then I cut back a bit but binge drank 4-5 days a week for a few more years after that. I'm hoping that maintaining a healthy diet, taking nootropics, and abstaining altogether from any brain-damaging substances will make up for the 5 or so years of hardcore brain abuse.

I hear ya. I did nearly the same thing, though not to quite the same extreme or for as long.

Things I'm thinking will help ON TOP OF a healthy diet and exercise (which are most important), in no particular order:

Racetams and Noopept
Fish oil, Krill Oil, etc.
Sulbutiamine
ALCAR and ALCAR-Arginate
SAM-e
Magnesium
Probiotics
Digestive Enzymes, perhaps additional HCl
Lion's Mane
Various adaptogens including: Maca, Reishi, Ashwagandha, Ginkgo Biloba, Cordyceps, Siberian Ginseng (Eleuthero), Rhodiola
Cleansing the body, especially the liver with various herbs like dandelion, turmeric, milk thistle, (SAM-e as mentioned) etc. etc.

Just figured I'd mention those things in case you want to check any of them out. These are all things that I think have or will help me.