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effect of mitochondria damage on the brain/body? need feedback.

mitochondria depression catecholamines dopamine adrenaline pqq

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#1 BioFreak

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:06 PM


When I was a kid I was on at least one potentially liver damaging drug(however my liver values seem ok), for approximately 6-7 years, that could have caused mitochondrial damage. From that point on I suffered from depression, lack of energy, back pain (muscular), digestive problems/lower pancreatic function, hypoglycemia(I needed to eat often to keep my sugar levels normal, otherwise I would have a sharp decline in concentration etc) lower brain function(aka adhd), and deficiency of catecholamines(thats what I call it because increasing them reverses most symptoms for me). Also my white blood cell count is on the low side and I am more prone to infections. Without training, my bodyweight was about 80-84kg, without the typical ektomorph bodycomposition, more like a endomorph, just without musclemass.

Before hitting the gym I was weak and slow compared to my age class.
I could go to the gym and increase my endurance however. Also, gaining strength was not a problem at first, and I was able to gain about 10 pound of muscle mass, but thats it.. I was never able to get rid of my abdominal bodyfat(I'm not fat though). No matter how hard I tried. And I tried so hard while weight training that I "fried" my nervous system, meaning I totally burned it out resulting in overtraining. To the point where I had even more massive problems to concentrate days after I hit the gym. Actually, I found out that if I hit the gym only all 6 days(weight trainining), my nervous system would be regenerated(I later found out that my nervous system would regenerate much faster if I took l-dopa during a workout session). Also, when doing my sets the first set usually was ok, while starting with the second set my reps would be very low compared to the first set, within set breaks where others would recover normally. I could not work without stimulants such as caffeine until I discovered that I need no stims if I simply increase my catecholamines.

I could not explain why I was "low in catecholamines". I don't until I thought about it:

Most of the symptoms like I said went away after increasing my catecholamines. dopamine, adrenaline and noradrenaline are all exhibitory neurotransmitters. They increase activity. An increase in activity means that more energy is burned.

Also, more adrenaline means more blood sugar, and increased burning of energy. this is probably, why my back pain was gone with enough adrenaline.

more (nor)adrenaline noradrenaline means less bodyfat, again, because fat cells give up fatty acids more easily, and the body burning more energy due to increased metabolism.

and dopamine activates the frontal lobes which are, as far as I know, those areas that are about complex problem solving etc, in short all that is needed for higher thinking. And the brain, esp. those areas that are involved in more complex tasks should need the most energy.

So... my hypothesis would be:
I don't have low catecholamines, they are within the normal range - BUT my mitochondria are damaged, therefore normal levels are not sufficient anymore for normal body/brain function.
Or it is a combination of lower production of catecholamines due to decreased overall cell energy and less response to catecholamines due to less mitochondria power levels.
Or the energy level affects how much catecholamines get produced. Same effect.

in both scenarios, an increase in catecholamines increase whole body metabolism and normalize my body functions.

What do you guys think?

Or maybe someone has a better explanation for my symptoms - please share it. This is the first hypothesis that seems to make sense to me, but I am open to other ideas.

P.S.: I am right now testing pqq for mitochondria support, but it is my first day, and although I feel very good, it might be placebo or something else.

#2 Logic

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

If your hypothesis is correct yo should see a vast improvement from C60-olive oil.
http://www.longecity.../415-c60health/

I would talk to Turnbuckle about dosage/a regimn of C60oo and PQQ.

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#3 BioFreak

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Yes, I've been thinking about that too. c60 could indeed confirm the hypothesis, if I do not need to push my neurotransmitters anymore (or to a much smaller extent). Gotta talk to him.

Another hypothesis that came to mind would be a change in bacterial flora in my body. Phys.org has an interesting article on it:
"As research has shown, bacteria in the gut can communicate with the brain through the central nervous system. Studies have found that mice without certain bacteria have defects in brain regions that control anxiety and depression-like behavior. Bacterial signaling also plays an essential role in guarding an animal's immune system."
http://phys.org/news...ght.html#ajTabs

Although if this hypothesis was correct I would have no idea how to fix it.

Edited by BioFreak, 19 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#4 anagram

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:35 PM

C60 has a negative impact on cultured human astrocytes as well as monoamine's.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19049160

c60 will likely solve some of your problem... just don't expect to be "full of dopamine" after you take it or something.

PQQ and Cq-10 will have a beneficial effect on your stamina and endurance, and have been shown to be beneficial to mitochondria.
BTW, was the medication you took as a kid Nardil?
The toxic effects of many chemicals including toxic medications can be adverted with PBN and ntBHA. those chemicals will help your mitochondria and will actually reverse any Damage done.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....=ntBHA toxicity

#5 Logic

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

I Googled
uridine mitochondria
with intriguing results.

Have you seen Mr Happy's Uridine-choline-DHA thread?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anagram:
Did you read further than the title!??
  • No-one here is suggesting injecting 0.25mg/kg Body Weight of C60 into the lateral brain ventricle or abdominal cavity!
  • C60 and C60oo are 2 very different substances, as discussed exhaustivly on this forum.
  • Even though 0.25mg/kg Body Weight of C60 was injected into the lateral brain ventricle or abdominal cavity of those rats; the results are intriguing, rather than negative.

Edited by Logic, 19 February 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#6 anagram

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:04 AM

I Googled
uridine mitochondria
with intriguing results.

Have you seen Mr Happy's Uridine-choline-DHA thread?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anagram:
Did you read further than the title!??

  • No-one here is suggesting injecting 0.25mg/kg Body Weight of C60 into the lateral brain ventricle or abdominal cavity!
  • C60 and C60oo are 2 very different substances, as discussed exhaustivly on this forum.
  • Even though 0.25mg/kg Body Weight of C60 was injected into the lateral brain ventricle or abdominal cavity of those rats; the results are intriguing, rather than negative.



Its a shame we don't know exactly how c60-oo works, it might just be a precursor to c60-(OH)x in the blood stream, we just don't know enough to make any assumptions. Several other people as well as myself on this forum have noticed that c60 diminishes the "good" feeling that comes from exercise. I just wanted to let you know that you may find working out to be less pleasant than you expected with c60.

#7 Logic

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

Its a shame we don't know exactly how c60-oo works, it might just be a precursor to c60-(OH)x in the blood stream, we just don't know enough to make any assumptions. Several other people as well as myself on this forum have noticed that c60 diminishes the "good" feeling that comes from exercise. I just wanted to let you know that you may find working out to be less pleasant than you expected with c60.


True.
I am one of many who miss that feeling, but I dont see how your post is relavent to that?

The conclusion reached by the paper is that C60 does not cross the BBB. So if it is just be a precursor to c60-(OH)x in the blood stream; you can conclude that the lack of post gym 'good' feeling is not caused by C60 congregating in your brain, but by some other means.

More pertinent to this thread is the fact that people with mito issues have seen huge increases in stammina and energy.

#8 anagram

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

C60 raised my acetyl choline levels so high that I was beginning to have parkinsons like symptoms, which negatively influenced my stamina and motivation completely.
Selegiline got me out of that "mess" though, I am back to normal sort of.

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#9 BioFreak

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

I've been taking pqq for over a week(1,5+) now... and no improvements from pqq alone. I've added mucuna pruriens last weekend, and I had an massive decrease in my symptoms(this was to be expected). Maybe I should wait longer, and I will finish my bottle (1 month worth of 10mg/d pqq) but I doubt that it will do any good. In fact I was even sleepier at 3 o'clock then usual. I doubt it was the pqq, but I would say I shouldn't be sleepy at all at that time of day if my mitochondria would improve due to pqq.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mitochondria, depression, catecholamines, dopamine, adrenaline, pqq

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