78 replies to this topic

[KoolK3n]

Crackalackn, you're on Selegiline right? How are doing on it?

[KoolK3n]

So about my previous curiosity as to why Emsam patients don't need to worry about hypertensive state, I think this link answers it: http://www.cuttinged...giline-and-MAOa-!!!. This shows that Deprenyl/Selegiline loses selectivity in inhibition through not just dose but also time. Finally getting somewhere. How in hell are some people taking Emsam, SSRI, and prescription stimulant at the same time?! This surely would've led to serotonin syndrome. Hmmm then again SSRIs are difficult to OD alone and with Emsam, a lot less MAO-A inhibition is taking place in the GI when compared to for example Nardil. I'm curious as to whether the CNS or PNS induces SS (Serotonin syndrome) (The GI is part of the PNS).

I am still leary of recommending alcohol as further research is necessary but it certainly shouldn't detract from Deprenyl's positive effects.

[Insert Surprised Face] look what I have here regarding Zoloft:http://molpharm.aspe...t/61/4/778.full. Another reason why to stack an SSRI with Deprenyl. To prevent both 5-HT and DA synthesis downregulation by Deprenyl.

Edited by KoolK3n, 11 April 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

Crackalackn, you're on Selegiline right? How are doing on it?

Yes, I am.

Selegiline is like a wonder drug to me. I've tried many supplements and it has always been the one that has impressed me the most.

It's hard to describe the benefits because of how vast they are. It pretty much just makes me feel hypo-hypo-hypo manic. Lots of clear mental energy, motivation is higher, creativity too, less anxiety, more confidence.. You get the point.

Downsides I've noticed after 2 separate sessions with the drug 2 years apart: high chance of abuse (for me at least), searching after more so called "rewarding activities" becomes more magnified. This can be bad because I'm basically talking about seeking out high calorie foods, video games, caffeine, socializing, porn, and sex much more than usual. In other words.. Time gets away from me more, and I don't like that.

I did not receive any kind of withdrawal after my first go with the drug and I was dosing 5mg/day for 3 months back then. Why did I stop? I pretty much bottomed out. I think I overloaded my dopamine system.

So I'm back with it hovering around 2-3mg/day and focusing on how I feel. The benefits are too hard for me to knock.

I also stay healthy with exercise, sleep, diet. But I could use a little more work in that department lately.

[KoolK3n]

I pretty much bottomed out. I think I overloaded my dopamine system.

Bottomed out as in pooped out? Shit this is just a correlation but it looks like once MAO-A is considerably inhibited the good subjective effects dissipate. The other correlation is with the decrease in activity with TH and TPH. Besides the methods I've listed, there's nothing else I can recommend. If my crazy plan does have a synergistic effect and minimizes tolerance, I think for the most part we can check dopamine and maybe serotonin off the list.

I'm gonna ask the people on other forums if the Emsam/SSRI combo works brb.

Edited by KoolK3n, 12 April 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[KoolK3n]

Wow I'm having trouble finding anyone on this combo, this is what I've found so far:
http://www.dr-bob.or...sgs/788280.html
http://www.dr-bob.or...msgs/12472.html
http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=67864
http://www.dr-bob.or...sgs/833633.html
http://www.dr-bob.or...msgs/56813.html

Study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9109902/
http://www.selegiline.com/noss.html

Edited by KoolK3n, 13 April 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[KoolK3n]

Another study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....1421659/related

It appears with caution, this combo may work. Only one way to find out for sure. See y'all in a few months.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

I pretty much bottomed out. I think I overloaded my dopamine system.

Bottomed out as in pooped out? Shit this is just a correlation but it looks like once MAO-A is considerably inhibited the good subjective effects dissipate. The other correlation is with the decrease in activity with TH and TPH. Besides the methods I've listed, there's nothing else I can recommend. If my crazy plan does have a synergistic effect and minimizes tolerance, I think for the most part we can check dopamine and maybe serotonin off the list.

I'm gonna ask the people on other forums if the Emsam/SSRI combo works brb.

Yes, as in pooped out. I wasn't getting the same benefits and it started to make me tired. I've read an overload of dopamine can make one tired, but that's not a very good example of a reliable method to check such things... who knows.

With Deprenyl I'm using Bacopa too in order to help serotonin. I feel like my memory is better and I feel more "balanced" overall. But once again, it could be anything. I try to harness my diet and mindset into a smooth equilibrium by not over doing any one supplement. Once again, I'm only dosing 2mg/day of Deprenyl. That's actually a bit high for my age but I'll take the risks by monitoring BP, tyramine, diet, sleep, etc. closely.

Another study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....1421659/related

It appears with caution, this combo may work. Only one way to find out for sure. See y'all in a few months.

Do come back and tell us. Might I recommend using a herbal SSRI like St. Johns Wort instead, or are you going to try it with Fluoxetine?

[KoolK3n]

With Deprenyl I'm using Bacopa too in order to help serotonin. I feel like my memory is better and I feel more "balanced" overall. But once again, it could be anything. I try to harness my diet and mindset into a smooth equilibrium by not over doing any one supplement. Once again, I'm only dosing 2mg/day of Deprenyl. That's actually a bit high for my age but I'll take the risks by monitoring BP, tyramine, diet, sleep, etc. closely.

I was pretty disappointed with Bacopa alone after 6+ months. I didn't feel like it was doing anything. I might give it a another shot though if I combine it with Deprenyl.
http://link.springer...1064-012-0902-2
http://www.sciencedi...197018613000399

But you're on such a low dose that I can't think of any possible serious adverse effect occurring besides of course tolerance. Are you taking it on an empty stomach?

Edited by KoolK3n, 14 April 2013 - 04:02 AM.

[KoolK3n]

Do come back and tell us. Might I recommend using a herbal SSRI like St. Johns Wort instead, or are you going to try it with Fluoxetine?

I have no idea whether I'll use sertraline, fluoxetine, kanna, or St. John's wort. I'll need to think about that.

My list: (Subject to change)
-Emsam
-SSRI
-N Acetyl Cysteine
-Forskolin
-Bacopa
-My other 93 supplements

Considerations: SS, Orthostatic hypotension, Insomnia
Will add Memantine and Inositol if my above combo works for a decent length of time

Edited by KoolK3n, 14 April 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

KoolK3n,

It looks like you're on as many supplements as I'm on with the big shooters including Dep.

I do take 1mg Dep. in the morning on an empty stomach but then redose with 1mg later on in the day after a meal.

[Reformed-Redan]

Do come back and tell us. Might I recommend using a herbal SSRI like St. Johns Wort instead, or are you going to try it with Fluoxetine?

I have no idea whether I'll use sertraline, fluoxetine, kanna, or St. John's wort. I'll need to think about that.

My list: (Subject to change)
-Emsam
-SSRI
-N Acetyl Cysteine
-Forskolin
-Bacopa
-My other 93 supplements

Considerations: SS, Orthostatic hypotension, Insomnia
Will add Memantine and Inositol if my above combo works for a decent length of time

Wow, you might be overdoing it, dunno. Why do you want to use a SSRI?

[KoolK3n]

My list: (Subject to change)
-Emsam
-SSRI
-N Acetyl Cysteine
-Forskolin
-Bacopa

Wow, you might be overdoing it, dunno. Why do you want to use a SSRI?

Because SSRIs have a pharmacology independent to Selegiline. Regardless of the bad rep online, SSRIs retain nootropic qualities. The only damn problem is the tolerance from Selegiline, which I have no faith in my list to prevent it.

Unless there is an unknown mechanism with the development of tolerance, the only correlation I see is with the reduced expression of tyrosine hydroxylase and after reviewing Devinthayer's experience with trying to upregulate it, his plan ultimately "failed". This has me wondering if bypassing TH is a viable method via supplementation with L-Dopa. I've been contemplating this approach for the past couple hours now. The introduction of L-Dopa opens up an entire new realm of discussion which I will start a new topic thread tomorrow.

[KoolK3n]

KoolK3n,
I do take 1mg Dep. in the morning on an empty stomach but then redose with 1mg later on in the day after a meal.

Taking it without food yields ~4% bioavailability while with food this number jumps to ~20%!! This number is higher than the ~17% Emsam patch lol. Btw don't expect the new thread to open til late afternoon it's gonna take some time putting this all together.

Edited by KoolK3n, 15 April 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

Yes, well I'm not sure if the bio availability is affected with the sublingual version. Does it matter?

I typically hold it under my tongue for ~15 minutes, then swallow.

[Introspecta]

I tried out deprenyl tablets for a short period and found I had much better results than with the liquid. Also when combining the tablets with phenibut it was extremely euphoric. Liquid Deprenyl did not increase the euphoria of Phenibut. After reading this thread I think I understand why. I'm surprised more people havn't jumped on that combo for recreational purposes.

[KoolK3n]

Yes, well I'm not sure if the bio availability is affected with the sublingual version. Does it matter?

I typically hold it under my tongue for ~15 minutes, then swallow.

I assumed you were on the tabs, my bad. So no, food shouldn't matter then.

My new topic thread is up!
http://www.longecity...tions-toxicity/

Edited by KoolK3n, 16 April 2013 - 03:21 AM.

[Bamboo]

Hi everyone

I live in Oz and recently got a script for selegiline from my Dr, only to have the pharmacy reject the script due to my also being on an SSRI As I understand it, 5mg of selegiline should be fine with an ssri Anyone have any feed back for me?

[KoolK3n]

Hi everyone

I live in Oz and recently got a script for selegiline from my Dr, only to have the pharmacy reject the script due to my also being on an SSRI As I understand it, 5mg of selegiline should be fine with an ssri Anyone have any feed back for me?

As long as you keep ur selegiline dose below 10mg/d. There shouldn't be a problem since ur only inhibiting MAOB. Anything higher and you start to inhibit MAOA which can result in some problems. Try to keep it at 5mg/d at most.

[edshak]

Hey, my 2 cents -

 

I've taken selegiline for 3 months on several occasions. It's a huge benefit as an antidepressant since it improves energy, mental focus, lateral thinking, and helps you work on the root causes of your depression. Like any drug if you don't do anything with it, you're just buying into a sales pitch.

 

There's some real downsides, some of them are not the drugs fault-

 

unreliable supplies = there are very few places that use selegiline on a large scale. so it's expensive. Its interesting that the demand exists outside of the supply, and has committed users where its available (people who can get prescribed emsam, countries where it's is prescibed). 

 

dosing - there's some dosing confusion on things like taking with food, how much is safe, what forms to take, amphetamine by-products ect. I found taking with food helps, staying under 5mg/day is important (build up issue), source is important, and not sure on amphetamines but compared to what I've tried its mild.

 

abuse- I'm not sure where to start. like any drug taking too much is bad. dopamine is habit forming though so you will want your coffee, red meat, ect. more than before. deal with it like someone with a genetically healthy level of dopamine who lives well..

 

I can't say enough about trying selegiline, something very positive but not for everyone.