My Nootropics Journey-- Brought me to a ve...
yogi
18 Mar 2013
You will be exposed to some elemental Hg during the removal, how much depends on how good your dentist is at removal. Taking a lipoic acid chelator during this first three months post removal will increase the amount of this Hg ending up in your brain.
This next part is from my memory of Cutler's writings, I'm not sure how well I understood him or remember this: Some of the Hg exposure at the amalgam removal will enter your brain anyway but your body will act as a kind of filter for it. Taking a lipoic acid chelator before the Hg has time to settle into the organs of your body puts more of it into circulation thus increasing the amount entering the brain.
I do know that some Hg will be in circulation anyway and since it's in the elemental form will cross the BBB anyway. I'm also sure that you can reduce the amount of this Hg entering the by taking DMPS or DMSA during this 3 month time period. DMPS and DMSA are chelators that don't cross the BBB, so they would stay outside the brain chelating the Hg in your blood and preventing it from getting through the BBB and of course also causing it to be excreted in your urine, which will smell particularly good from all the thiols.
If I was you I would reschedule the removal and acquire some DMPS before you have the amalgam out. It a stronger chelator and has a better side effect profile than DMSA.
It's lucky you posted when you did because I came across your thread during research on antioxidant support for my future rounds of chelation. I've also found two new and much cheaper sources for DMPS and have perfected my antioxidant regimen, all of which I will detail later.
I will dig through some old boxes of books and see if I can find my copy of Cutler's Amalgam Illness, which I'd be happy to mail you if I can find it. It's $70 at amazon and $35 at his site I think.
Are you experiencing social anxiety? That's par if you're hg toxic, I became very avoidant for a decade or so before stumbling across Andy and figuring out what was wrong with me.
Sorry this has happened to you, btw.
Getting all the way better, rather than just somewhat or mostly, is going to take quite awhile and substantial effort. Understand that you've probably been functioning below your potential since childhood and that getting all the way better could really improve things for you. How I'm defining all the way better for myself is no harm from taking a gram or two of R-ALA in one dose per day for a week or two. To get there one needs to chelate all the Hg out of the brain and this can take time.
I would consider finding a dentist who has special training in minimizing your exposure to Hg during amalgam removal. Drilling it releases mercury and there are dentists trained to minimize your exposure. I happened to be close to one trained by Hal Huggins, the first dentist to speak out about amalgams and advocate safe removal. Will see if I can dig something up about how to find one. I think there's info about this in Andy's book.
Edited by niner, 18 March 2013 - 01:54 PM.
FreelyFlourish
18 Mar 2013
Thats crazy, I can hardly function after six months
Whata r eyour sources for DMPS? Do I need a prescription for it? I have money, I'll do anything to be normal again
yogi
18 Mar 2013
It's good you have money because DMPS and the best supportive antioxidants can get spendy. DMPS is weird, it isn't FDA approved but by special legislation compounding pharmacies can sell it with a prescription and they charge a mint. Detoxitab.com is selling DMPS for $43 a gram + $10 shipping from the Bahamas and will do 10% off on 10 packages or 20% off on 20 packages if you call or email them. Everyone on the frequent dose chelation group says it takes a month to arrive though. A cheaper source that ships quicker is Olympus Scientific, a pharmacy in Thailand owned by an expat, but it's only sold in powder, $30/g or $25/g if you order over 10g. All the DMPS is made, I think, by German and Russian pharmaceutical companies so the quality is pretty consistent, but it oxidizes so it can't be stored forever.
Each dose should be within a few milligrams of the others, within less than 5mg for sure, so the blood levels don't swing too much. The larger the dose you can tolerate the less this would matter, but a few people feel they need to start out with very small doses.
How repeatable is your scale? Test it for repeatability at around 30-40mg (0.035g) by balling up a piece of foil or paper and measuring it like ten times in a row with maybe 30-45sec between weighings, as if you were putting the powder in a capsule in between weighings. Using tweezers to carefully move the ball would get the best readings. To weigh powder and get it into capsules you'll want to get some weighing papers, amazon has em. It would be best to simulate the weighing paper with a little tissue paper and remove the tissue paper and re-tare the scale with the tissue paper on it in between each weighing. Write down each weight of course to see how much it fluctuating.
I just bought a used Mettler Toledo 0.001g scale on ebay for 250 which should be dead on, but if you have something cheaper that's repeatable within a few milligrams than let me know and I'll put it right back on ebay.
Edited by yogi, 18 March 2013 - 03:20 AM.
FreelyFlourish
18 Mar 2013
http://www.amazon.co...ywords=mg scale
It is actually quite accurate and hands down the most affordable mg scale. Getting doses within a 7mg range is no issue whatsoever. Olympus Scientific doesn;t appear to have a website, and people are saying they just email the guy-- what's the email?? I can't find a way to contact them.
yogi
18 Mar 2013
It might be good to have them on the thread so anyone reading this thread can learn more from it.
This is the scale I use, and have used for 2 years now-
http://www.amazon.co...ywords=mg scale
It is actually quite accurate and hands down the most affordable mg scale. Getting doses within a 7mg range is no issue whatsoever. Olympus Scientific doesn;t appear to have a website, and people are saying they just email the guy-- what's the email?? I can't find a way to contact them.
Check your PMs
yogi
18 Mar 2013
The reason being that I was thinking a 7mg fluctuation between dose sizes would be fine at say a 100mg dose. It would be way too large at a 30mg dose though, at which one would want to be within 1-3mg of variation between doses.
Not everyone can handle a 100mg dose of chelator at first, in fact for many it would be too high a starting dose.
Edited by yogi, 18 March 2013 - 05:05 AM.
yogi
18 Mar 2013
If you were going to get the 30mg caps from detoxitab.com I would start at 30mg every 6hrs, then if that feels fine increase to 30mg every four hours, as this would give a more stable blood level at the higher dose. Then if you feel like you can increase the dose, add an extra 30mg every eight hours, so you'd be dosing every four hours round the clock but alternating 60mg and 30mg doses. The half life of DMPS is 8hrs so alternating dose sizes to titrate up the dose is fine because the alternating doses are both within the half-life so they create a more stable blood level.
Edited by yogi, 18 March 2013 - 05:07 AM.
yogi
18 Mar 2013
cog
19 Mar 2013
could be high nitric oxide. You may even, but probably not, have an allergy to magnesium stearate (stearic acid) which is in all supplements, pills etc. (an anti-caking agent). a skin prick test with something containing it could show some results ( try at home and be ready to wash it of quickly. since your taking a bunch of stuff with it, it cant be lethal. Id foucus more on the vasodilating agent being responsible
had something simular and it was an allergy to dust and all sorts of other stuff. Just very unusual symptoms
yogi
19 Mar 2013
"Free radicals are both a cause and a result of inflammation. Damage from free radicals causes inflammation; chronic inflammation goes on to produce lots of free radicals which in turn create more inflammation. This is a vicious cycle which can damage many systems in the body. The thyroid, heart and pancreas, can be affected. Inflammation can be likened to a forest fire that rages out of control in your body."
Which of his symptoms make you think his issues may be due to a vasodilating agent, high nitric oxide, or an allergy to magnesium stearate?
Mercury has the ability to cause allergies, btw.
FreelyFlourish
20 Mar 2013
what do you guys think of this?
http://www.ibsgroup....ionality/page-6
Edited by FreelyFlourish, 20 March 2013 - 03:48 AM.
yogiman45
20 Mar 2013
I saw your post, and I decided to create an account to tell you about my experience. About 3 years ago, I was using mass amounts of marijuana, small amounts of adderall, and this medication my mom had me on called, Attends. It is funny, because all of the illegal stuff I took did less amount of damage than what my own mother gave me. Here is the ingredients for this "alternative" ADHD medication
21 Homeopathic Ingredients:

Kali Phosphoricum, Lithium Carbonicum 30C; Natrum Muriaticum 12C, 30C; Agaricus Muscarius, Argentum Nitricum, Fluoricum Acidum, Hyoscyamus Niger, Iodium, Kali Bromatum, Humulus Lupulus, Ignatia Amara 9C, 12C, 30C; Hypothalamus 12C; Avena Sativa 6C, 12C; Valeriana Officinalis 9C; Tarentula Hispanica 6C; Cimicifuga Racemosa 4C; Caffeinum 8X, 12X, 30X ; Lithium Bromatum 8X; Magnesia Phoshorica, Natrum Phosphoricum, Natrum Suphuricum 6X.
In a Base of:
Medium Chain Triglycerides, L-Tyrosine, Alpha-Linolenic Acid, Green Tea Powder, Trifolium Pratense, Flax Seed Powder, Phosphatidycholine, Phosphatidylethanolamine, Phosphatidylinositol, EPA, L-Isoleucine, L-Leucine, L-Valine, DL-Methionine, L-Glutamic Acid, GABA, DMAE, Ginkgo Biloba, DHA, Conjugated Linoleic Acid, Eicosatrienoic Acid (from GLA powder), Arachidonic Acid, Glycine, DL-Phenylalanine, Radix Heraclei, Caproic Acid, Caprylic Acid, Capric Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Lauric Acid, Pentadecanoic Acid, Myristic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Palmitoleic Acid, Stearic Acid, Arachidic Acid (from GLA powder), Oleic Acid, L-Glutathione, DiCalcium Pantothenate, Magnesium Aspartate, Zinc, Niacinamide, Pyridoxine, L-Cysteine, L-Cystine, Pycnogenol, Gotu Kola, Phosphatidylserine, NADH, L-5HTP, and Chromium Nicotinate, Gelatin, Rice Flour, and Dextrose.
One day out of the blue, I lost my mind forever. It felt as if I was having a heart attack and I felt this massive mental energy. I developed multiple random phobias. Here are a few, Rabie phobia, lsd phobia, GAD disorder, self-conscious to the point that I could not leave my house if I had any pimples. My derealization and depersonalization was extreme to the point where I would only feel good watching movies, I could not do any other tasks without expressing extreme fear. I had extreme brain fog, and could not focus worth a damn. I also felt extreme head pressure and neck discomfort. I felt like I was constantly floating, and I felt as if I were dieing every day. Through intense meditation, healthy eating, and experimenting with binural beats, I have been able to function. I am taking a full college course load now, but it has taken a long time for my to recover. I still struggle with SAS, and OCD, but I can still function. This has taken away a large part of my life, but I have learned about myself because of it. Hopefully you recover sooner than I did man, peace.
FreelyFlourish
20 Mar 2013
yogiman45
20 Mar 2013
How long were you on that alternative medication, my friend? Any advice for me on recovering for what to do/what not to do?
Meditation, forms of relaxing exercise, and spend time with your family, friends, and girlfriend. You have it better than I did. At least you have a GF. I spent two years in my room, only leaving the house for menial tasks. Get a belief in "God", I personally believe in Jesus. Having a belief is important, because I know if I somehow die I will be taken care of. Paleo diet is good, also add KOMBUCHA, into your diet. Kombucha gave me a calming effect, and helped me relax. Also, accepting the feelings of depersonalization, and derealization are important. At first, I freaked out about the weird feelings I was having, but then I accepted that they were normal. and would cause me no harm. Meditation was a big thing though, and binural beats. If you are low in beta, or theta, you can listen to some beats on youtube to help you balance your brain waves out. Personally, I find alpha beats help me. The biggest problem I have now is Social anxiety disorder, but that is another story.
FreelyFlourish
20 Mar 2013
yogi
20 Mar 2013
FYI yogiman45 the following symptoms you report are caused by Hg toxicity and can be eliminated by chelation: ADHD, anxiety, OCD, social avoidance, brain fog, derealization, attention and focus problems. You might want to read the whole thread and look into the possibility yourself. I used to have lots of social anxiety and now have very little. Unfortunately, since all forms of anxiety are a form of egotism, I can't say if the social anxiety went because I addressed the mercury issue or because I meditated a lot. Anxiety and social anxiety can be caused purely by Hg intoxication or just by the knot of fear and pride known as ego. To get a little quantum, it might even be a case of the chicken and the egg where the fear of the ego manifests as Hg poisoning.
Bodily speaking I'm 37, for the last eight years I've been on a very intense spirtual path and I can tell you both that spiritual progress will only come by retraining the mind. I mention this because I think that binaural beats are worthless for spiritual practice and development, I have tried them.
What works most efficiently is the technique variously known as the practice of presence, Eckhart Tolle and A.H Almass call it this, Dzogchen so-called by the Nyingma school of Buddhism, awareness watching awareness or AWA called so by Michael Langford, Nisargadatta practiced it till some degree of enlightenment and described it variously, in Zen Buddhism it's known as Shikantaza which according to author Steve Hagen translates thus: shi means tranquility, kan means awareness, ta means hitting exactly the right spot (not one atom off), and za means to sit, so basically "sitting in perfect tranquil awareness". Michael Langford learned this from Ramana Maharshi and his lineage of Sadhu Om and Sri Muruganar and taught it to me through his book The Most Direct Means to Eternal Bliss, back when I found the teaching this book was known as The Imposter, in reference to the ego, and only published online.
After beginning this practice quite intensely for several days I entered my first satori, or samadhi as it is sometimes called. This lasted a week or two and included kundalini awakening, which I'd never heard of and was surprising to say the least. More meditation and maybe 10,000 or so hours of reading in the various traditions followed over the next several years. I've experienced several more satori's and also siddhi, called iddhi in Buddhism, on a number of occasions so I can confim that the teachings are true, but that you must practice if you want results.
yogiman45
20 Mar 2013
I use this meditation link. ^^^ that one brings me a lot of peace.
> This is a great alpha binural beat. This really relaxes me.
Holosync and lifeflow are one of the best binural beat companies. Here are links to their stuff, from pirate bay

http://thepiratebay....ication_Level_2)_
http://thepiratebay....ion_-_LifeFlow_[MP3.CBR.192]
boab
20 Mar 2013
I am a postdoc doing cancer research. I am not an expert in what ails you but I sure do read a lot of science and have a good spidey sense. To be honest, as I was first reading I thought it was a coincidence about the use of Focus Factor and your very unfortunate problem. When something happens we look for anything that happened at the same time as a cause and it can be hard to shake loose the original conviction unless presented with something better. It could be what your doctors think it is. However, the fact that you had clearly non-placebo effects from a pill that would have no effect on me is decidedly odd. It could be a "Big Clue".
Is the bottle of Focus Factor you sampled the same one that you had when you first started the symptoms? Try another bottle with a different lot number and different expiry date. There is almost no government oversight of supplements and quality control could be lax. Maybe the last bottle you took had far too much of some ingredient etc. This will at least give you a clue and we want more clues!
Trying all the individual ingredients at the same dose found in the original capsules seems like the definite next step. I am sure you can get them at a health food store. If one does replicate your effect then you can really start to understand what the hell is going on.
You have tried many remedies and have had many theories and of course what you are doing is great. Hopefully figuring out the chemical that you are reacting to will help you out.
Glad to see you are sceptical and rigorous when you look into treatments. Google the treatment name + debunked for an alternative view.

Having said that, whatever is going on with you seems pretty damn rare and unusual so you might have to keep wading through it.
So sorry about what you are going through, stay strong!
yogiman45
20 Mar 2013
Strange, but judging by symptoms, this thread seems to be a vortex for Hg poisoned people who like to meditate.
FYI yogiman45 the following symptoms you report are caused by Hg toxicity and can be eliminated by chelation: ADHD, anxiety, OCD, social avoidance, brain fog, derealization, attention and focus problems. You might want to read the whole thread and look into the possibility yourself. I used to have lots of social anxiety and now have very little. Unfortunately, since all forms of anxiety are a form of egotism, I can't say if the social anxiety went because I addressed the mercury issue or because I meditated a lot. Anxiety and social anxiety can be caused purely by Hg intoxication or just by the knot of fear and pride known as ego. To get a little quantum, it might even be a case of the chicken and the egg where the fear of the ego manifests as Hg poisoning.
Bodily speaking I'm 37, for the last eight years I've been on a very intense spirtual path and I can tell you both that spiritual progress will only come by retraining the mind. I mention this because I think that binaural beats are worthless for spiritual practice and development, I have tried them.
What works most efficiently is the technique variously known as the practice of presence, Eckhart Tolle and A.H Almass call it this, Dzogchen so-called by the Nyingma school of Buddhism, awareness watching awareness or AWA called so by Michael Langford, Nisargadatta practiced it till some degree of enlightenment and described it variously, in Zen Buddhism it's known as Shikantaza which according to author Steve Hagen translates thus: shi means tranquility, kan means awareness, ta means hitting exactly the right spot (not one atom off), and za means to sit, so basically "sitting in perfect tranquil awareness". Michael Langford learned this from Ramana Maharshi and his lineage of Sadhu Om and Sri Muruganar and taught it to me through his book The Most Direct Means to Eternal Bliss, back when I found the teaching this book was known as The Imposter, in reference to the ego, and only published online.
After beginning this practice quite intensely for several days I entered my first satori, or samadhi as it is sometimes called. This lasted a week or two and included kundalini awakening, which I'd never heard of and was surprising to say the least. More meditation and maybe 10,000 or so hours of reading in the various traditions followed over the next several years. I've experienced several more satori's and also siddhi, called iddhi in Buddhism, on a number of occasions so I can confim that the teachings are true, but that you must practice if you want results.
In my opinion, my social anxiety is really only the cause of my current predicament. I am going to a community college filled with mainly single mom's and older adults. I did not have social anxiety when I had a social circle. I am about to attend a church youth group, so hopefully I meet some chill people. Kundalini awareness, from what I read, has to be carefully done. Sometimes deep meditation can cause me some anxiety, which some people refer to as releasing repression. However, I am going to look into shikanzata. I read the power of now, and it awakened me to meditation. However, it is definitely something you have to practice, to stay in the moment.
yogi
20 Mar 2013
I didn't make any attempt to do "kundalini awareness", whatever that is. I just practiced focusing my own awareness upon itself, which is the highest, or even only practice of many traditions. This resulted in a spontaneous kundalini awakening, when it happened I'd never even heard the word kundalini and didn't know what was happening. I assure you it is completely safe.
I've been through enormous amount of fear and psychic pain as a result of meditating, so I know what you mean. It's always a good thing, Pathwork lectures # 190 and 191 go into the necessity of this in some detail: http://www.pathwork....nedited/190.PDF & http://www.pathwork....nedited/191.PDF
yogi
20 Mar 2013
John, would you mind describing all of your symptoms, particularly the neurological ones, in detail?
At this point I'd be surprised, but pleasantly so, if you don't have a Hg issue. I'm curious if you're planning to pursue the possibility?
Edited by yogi, 20 March 2013 - 06:42 AM.
FreelyFlourish
20 Mar 2013
Okay, here are a list of the symptoms- I can recall- and please bare with me as my vocabulary or memory are not what they used to be. Never thought i'd say that at 20.
Symptoms:
Severe derealization (Feeling of complete inebriation, very drunk feeling in the head), brain fog, intracranial pressure(this changes, sometimes it's all centered in the forehead, other times it feels as if there is a tight band or helmet around my head.), I can't stress this feeling in my head enough- It's not the thoughts I'm having or urges or anything of that nature, it is a physical feeling that is so foreign I do not have the words to get at it's true essence, so I resort to words like intoxication(of a new breed) similar to drunkeness/some sort of acid trip, my head is constantly heavy with all this pressure built up in it. Something you readers can relate to, a part of the neurological feeling is similar to the feeling you get when you are upside down for too long and all the blood rushes into your head and you feel all the pressure This comes with memory impairment. All of these symptoms I have been suffering with every waking moment I have, I haven't experience normal consciousness or mental clarity in months. I will walk into rooms and not know why, try and play songs that are already playing. One thing a couple of days ago, I was at work and my doctor called my cell phone and left a voicemail. I called my cell phone from my work phone to check my messages, as I did this my cell phone began to vibrate in my pocket. I hung the work phone up to see just who it could possibly be, I then saw it was my work. Instead of realizing what happened, my mind went straight to "Oh my boss saw me on the phone and wanted to tell me to get off it." I realized what actually happened after this, but you get the picture. My beta Frequencies were found to be low in neurofeedback testing. As already stated, I totaled my car last week.
Following the derealization, the next symptom is the neck stiffness. It is so profoundly awful and varies in degree of severity everyday, but my chiropractor says there is no structural cause of it, and my weekly treatments from him don't help whatsoever.
I am quite panicky in this mental state with this symptoms and have heart palpitations on the time, hence me just getting prescribed beta blockers. I also have severe insomnia and can't get to sleep until early hours of the morning. For example, it's 2 am right now.
I mentioned the other one above, about how sometimes, I get some sort of indigestion and my stomach gets warm and right before/after I have a very large and loose bowel movement, my neuro symptoms (derealization, pressure etc) get VERY bad. Don't get me wrong, they are always very bad, but I can go bad to much worse when this occurs.
One I haven't mentioned, is after I eat anything, I can't lay down because I have trouble breathing and sometimes chest pains as it feels like there is a lot of air trapped in my chest, and I have to sit up and burp seemingly incessantly, for good while, until this air trapped in chest sensation is gone and I can breathe with ease again with no more pain. THis happens on a daily basis.
And the other one is anal itching. I have had it on and off all my life, however since these symptoms began it has been much worse and a nightly occurance, which causes bleeding during bowel movements sometimes. I will update if I remember any more
yogi
20 Mar 2013
edit: I'm trying to get a handle on how much it hurt you.
Boab mentioned, "Maybe the last bottle you took had far too much of some ingredient etc.", I don't buy this. The product is mass produced, so huge quantities of each ingredient would be carefully weighed and put into a machine designed to mix them very thoroughly before the mixture is capped up. It's very unlikely this process could lead to an unusually high amount of one ingredient in the mix.
I've stopped telling you to take the ALA as a test because you still have an amalgam and I won't tell you to do anything I'm certain will be damaging. I'm still convinced you need to look into the Hg hypothesis very carefully though.
At this point to figure out if you are Hg toxic beyond a shadow of a doubt you have these options:
1. Taking the ALA and seeing what happens, which I'm telling you is going to hurt you, how much I don't know.
2. Having the amalgam removed and then beginning to chelate with DMPS or DMSA and seeing what happens. If you are Hg toxic the chelators DMPS or DMSA will probably make you feel differently, they may not cause as much of a noticeable difference as ALA though because they don't enter the brain or go into cells, where Hg accumulates. If you aren't toxic no chelator will effect you, it's impossible. After three months pass, then you could start chelating with ALA which will definitely make you feel differently if you are toxic.
These are the two definitive ways to know if it's Hg. You could also have a Doctor's Data lab hair test and see if it meets Cutler's statistcally derived rules of interpretation. This would not be a sure thing, but could be very informative. I still have Andy's book on that if you want it, I loaned my copy of Amalgam Illness out to a friend years ago.
Edited by yogi, 20 March 2013 - 08:51 AM.
boab
20 Mar 2013
I would be certain because the ingredients in the bottle are generally viewed as safe and many people try things like this without ill effect. I have tried ALA, Vinpocetine and Huperzine A. I have never felt what you describe from them. Get a friend of your's to take one and see if they feel anything. If they do then you have something strange in your batch. People do die from mass manufactured supplements. Google supplement poisoning or supplement lawsuits. Regardless of what theory you are currently focused on, you should still try to narrow down the ingredient giving you the problem. If you are currently convinced it is the ALA then trying it individually will tell you for sure. If it does not do anything then you can eliminate it from the list. This has to make sense, right?Boab, Yes, my current bottle is the same bottle. How can you be certain this stack of items would have no effect on you, out of curiosity?
FreelyFlourish
21 Mar 2013
I went to the Dentist's office today- They did a check and I have 0 fillings of any sort. The only thing abnormal in my mouth is the stainless steel permanent retainer on the back of a few teeth
Boab, yes that makes a lot of sense. I will get a friend to take it. From the date when the symptoms began occuring to now, i have been very very sensitive to EVERYTHING it seems. As I said, My baseline, normal feeling is still one that feels like I am completely inebriated, so adding any altering substances to that, I have been super sensitive. One hit of weed and I am very, very high. And I smoked for 5+ years before this. Half of a beer and I feel too drunk to do anything. It's rather bizarre.
FreelyFlourish
21 Mar 2013
yogi
21 Mar 2013
FreelyFlourish
21 Mar 2013
And what do you recommend starting with?