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Sunifiram?

sunifiram

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#1561 deeptrance

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 04:35 AM

 

 

A lot of those are placebos you can dump and consolidate to things worth taking. Valerian, Hawthorn, Bacopa, Gota kola, eleuthro, and over half the list are placebos, or negligible stuff. And then as another separate category, Some of the stuff on your list are inactive placebos mentally, but still has significant physical health benefits, like Taurine & Glycine.

 

 

No substance is a placebo, in and of itself. The word "placebo" refers to a psychogenic effect, not an innate property that can be ascribed to any substance outside of specific contexts. And in some instances, placebo effects are misattributed to substances that may well be pharmacologically active in ways that aren't yet known. 

 

When 'placebo' is used as a noun, it pertains to a reference substance to which the effects of a target substance are compared via statistical analysis. The reference substance is 'the placebo" only in the context of the experimental design. A sugar pill, for example, is biologically active, but it may be used as a placebo in a situation where sugar is known to have no effect such as is being studied in the test compound. But if you're about to drop dead from low blood sugar, a sugar pill is about as far from the meaning of "placebo" as you can get!

 

What I presume you're trying to say is that the substances you've categorized as placebos are, to your knowledge, inactive in every way that could possibly be pertinent to my objectives. And you have absolutely no basis for making such a claim, given the fact that everything you listed has been demonstrated to be active in various ways. Your comment about valerian is especially odd, as there are many people (including myself) who are significantly affected by its sedating effects, and it's a known GABA-A agonist. Where are you getting your information? As for the adaptogens you mentioned, they're all multipally active, just as any plant is. What do you think they're made of, inert molecules that pass through the digestive system completely undetected and unaltered? 

 

I'll cut you some slack and assume that you're more knowledgeable than your comment reveals, and you were just being a bit too casual in your wording. If you only trust studies that are conducted in the USA then I can see where you might think that adaptogens are useless, given that American researchers fail to look into anything that can't be patented and sold at a ridiculous markup. I'm not suggesting that I blindly trust the relentless flow of dubious publications from China, Russia, and India, but I don't dismiss them simply for failing to meet the approval of the FDA. Most of the mainstream adaptogens (such as Bacopa and Rhodiola) have been pretty thoroughly vetted, and at some point you have to give your skepticism a rest and allow for the possibility that dense, bitter plant extracts contain a good deal more than simple carbohydrates and cellulose, and much of that additional content is absorbed and utilized in a wide variety of ways by our bodies. We're vastly more complex than the machines to which we're often compared.


Edited by deeptrance, 16 March 2016 - 04:49 AM.

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#1562 Geoffrey

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 05:36 AM

I've compared unifiram and sunifiram. I find the former to be much milder, to the point of being almost ineffective. With sunifiram, if I haven't taken it for a while, I can almost always feel it "wake me up", sort of NZT-style (!), within twenty minutes to an hour of taking it: concentration starts to increase, mood brightens, colours brighten, memories seem more "available", logical thinking is easier. Problem with sunifiram is that if I get that feeling one day, odds are that by day three it just makes me tired, ragged and fogged. So I can now only really use it as a one-off. With unifiram at the same mg dosage as suni, I don't get that wake-up feeling. I do get some memory effects, but it seems really mild. Maybe it's safer for that reason, though looking at the molecular make-up of unifiram, I do wonder what the Fluorine and Sulphur are doing in there... (I know, I know). I don't get persistent headache with sunifiram, maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's because I don't take more than 5mg and I don't take it with a whole load of other stimulants.



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#1563 mikey

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:13 AM

I've compared unifiram and sunifiram. I find the former to be much milder, to the point of being almost ineffective. With sunifiram, if I haven't taken it for a while, I can almost always feel it "wake me up", sort of NZT-style (!), within twenty minutes to an hour of taking it: concentration starts to increase, mood brightens, colours brighten, memories seem more "available", logical thinking is easier. Problem with sunifiram is that if I get that feeling one day, odds are that by day three it just makes me tired, ragged and fogged. So I can now only really use it as a one-off. With unifiram at the same mg dosage as suni, I don't get that wake-up feeling. I do get some memory effects, but it seems really mild. Maybe it's safer for that reason, though looking at the molecular make-up of unifiram, I do wonder what the Fluorine and Sulphur are doing in there... (I know, I know). I don't get persistent headache with sunifiram, maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's because I don't take more than 5mg and I don't take it with a whole load of other stimulants.

 

I find them to work best taken together, and yes, one doesn't need a high dose to benefit.



#1564 Galaxyshock

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:07 PM

Anybody still taking this stuff? I have some old Sunifiram on the shelf, took 20 mg earlier this week and it gave that enhanced sensation which I found pretty cool, but overall didn't notice much nootropic benefits I'm really looking for.



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#1565 suni_hatamoto

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:43 AM

SUNIFIRAM TOXICITY REPORT (ALSO - MITIGATION PROCEDURES)

Hello, everyone. I've long forgotten about nootropic community (since about 2016), but decided to return and post these results.
I want to warn that, in my time of doing noots, I've tried many of them.
Until I've came to Sunifiram.
 
Used Sunifiram for 6 months straight every day, once per day, sublingual, 5-15 mg eyeballed with very small scoop.
First month it felt like quite an improvement, but after 2 months it started to give a burning sensation in my brain (felt like I had a bunch of mustard plasters inside, i.e. "burning" like a spicy thing does it).
The sensation disappeared after discontinuation.
After some time I've took 50mg of L-Theanine sublingually, and was immediately blasted again with a hot burn, of the whole brain (at least it felt like that), for 2 days straight. It subsided afterwards, but felt extremely unpleasant.
The burning pain didn't disappear completely this time, and has started to show itself during mental work.
 
A bit of time passed. I've, obviously, made a mistake again, now with memantine. I've self-medicated with it (5mg per day) for 2 months (last month I've took it sublingually which, for memantine, significantly changes its MoA since it targets many receptors and has many metabolites to do its work).
This broke my sleep, and I've acquired even more serious headache that started to appear during any learning process, listening to music, computer games, any media other than a something like a light novel.
 
I've visited a sleep specialist, but nothing worked (got a brain scan, it was alright). At this moment I took his suggestion and went to a shrink. Got diagnosed with "moderate depression" (but I didn't understand the diagnosis since I was able to work; later it turned out that I've pushed it all along by sheer force of my stupidity, as I did it when I've been taking sunifiram, paying no attention to burning pain or the fact that it was an untested drug). It also became clear that the depression was: chronic, slowly accumulated over my life, was present since childhood (about 6 years, death thoughts came around 8 years and became a habit of mine, I mean the thoughts, not the actual decision or intention to follow through).
The initial round of antidepressant+sleep-med combo worked alright, but only reduced my depression to a "light" level. The sleep improved after than 1-month course, though (the med was named Truxal, the SSRI - Cipralex).
 
Then we discussed and went through with Paroxetine (to try to treat anxiety issues).
Boy, that was a wrong move.
 
After a month of Paroxetine I've got that burning pain all over my head, but now it was constant (!), like it never, ever stopped (6 out of 10 sometimes, but mostly 4, if you want a pain rate). The only good thing was that I was able to fall asleep and actually sleep. (I also was able to work, again, by sheer force of my stubbornness and obstinacy. Only later I uncovered that other people can't stand even a 3/10 for a few hours, lest be it a constant pain.)
I've weeded off Paroxetine during 4-month period, but now was stuck with lesser form, but still present, of chronic depression and, more importantly, constant burning sensation in my brain.
 
Then, when any pain-specializing doctor that I've gone to said that he is unable to help, I've compiled a list of possible medication and combinations to try and presented them to my shrink. Turns out, he had a bit of experience with pain management (since people with psychiatric issues also do have somewhat strange types of pain), so he reviewed it and crossed off some irrelevant things out.
I've followed through the medications for following 2 years, and no thing or combo (even exotic ones) did work. I won't write what didn't work here, but I'll say the meds were mostly for fibromyalgia (SNRI, anticonvulsants, tried some antipsychotics, etc.).
Nothing worked until we've came to pregabaline and phenibut.
I honestly don't know why no neurology specialist has recommended this medication to me, since it was the only thing that worked. But, there's always a catch.
 
To heal, I had to follow this schedule: 150 mg pregabaline, 2 times per day (morning/at night), for 28 days. Then 2-3 weeks off the med (say hi to withdrawals). Then see, if symptoms improved. Continue until the first week of pregabaline will start to result in extreme sedation. If so, stop the med, rest for 2-3 weeks, and attempt to repeat, now, with 75 mg of pregabaline (in same way). If extreme sedation appears again, go off the med, and try to finish with course of phenibut (for 10 days straight, around 500 or 1000mg max per day, in same way).
 
I've put with it for a year and few months. After a week of the med, the pain only increased, about 1.5-2 times more. All this time I was working, as a software developer, so I had to bear through the pain every working day. And during withdrawal it increased even more.
Still, I had nowhere to run, so I tried to muddle through with everything that I had.
 
Finally, came the time when the pain disappeared almost completely (I'll go with a last round of phenibut some day, I guess). At that time I also started to get other side effects from the med, i.e. skin on my head started itching severely. So I stopped at 14th day, and didn't continue anymore. I didn't have the need, though, since the pain (compared to what I felt during 6-month sunifiram course) has disappeared. I suppose the itching will disappear at some time, too, I will deal with it somehow anyway (antihistamines didn't work for it, so it's not an allergy?).
I still can't use any coffee, though, after all that experience. Obviously alcohol is a no-go for me (it doesn't even work on me as it should, the effect disappears very quickly).
 
Reflecting now, I see how foolish my decision were, to play with something more powerful than a choline supplement or caffeine drink. I should've shown more grit instead (and directed my stubborness into that) of focusing on "easy way" through "magical" substances.
I understand that my account is new, but I hope the system will allow this message to stay for a long time, and won't suddenly remove it from this site.
 
I also understand completely that there are people who didn't had any trouble like this, be it Sunifiram, Unifiram or anything else. The point is, I've took these subtances for a long period. And the thing that exacerbated the symptoms of pain were none other than Memantine and SSRI/SNRI. So while people will point out that they had no such issues with AMPAkines, I want to remind that these are LTP potentiating agents, sunifiram, for example, stimulates PKCα pathways (cancer cells much?), - there's no good reason to take these substances if such side effects do occur. And that you should probably be careful with (at least) sublingual memantine, but this suggestion is built solely around my experience.
The other argument is that I had chronic depression and that probably other people won't have these "burning" side effects. Well, I remember messages from people that they actually got these "burns" from Sunifiram, too, with no indications of having clinical depression.
 
Thus:
Do not use Sunifiram or Unifiram, hoping this will magically escalate your thinking abilities, period. (I suppose this also goes for any really strong AMPAkine, like nefiracetam, fasoracetam, etc; Sunifiram is not an AMPAkine, though it somehow works on AMPAr.)
Do not *ever* use Sunifiram or Unifiram for longer than 30 days, and don't *ever* use AMPAkines if you have glutamate issues (like epilepsy?).
Do not use or be very careful with L-Theanine and Memantine after you've (again, don't do this) been through long enough course of Sunifiram (so it started to burn).
Do not combine strong AMPAkines/Sunifiram/Unifiram with stims.
As anecdote: "VERY strongly contraindicated, beta-carbolines and DM-232 and DM-235. Seems to agonise purkinje cells, a GABA mediated receptor in the cerebellum.", and another: "Don't take sunifiram with butylone, or modafinil, or adderall (separate pairs)".
And of course, I strongly recommend to not use any substances that were not properly tested on volunteers.
 
Personally I've came to believe that most people don't need most of the nootropics other than citicoline or something like that (after they turn the page, say, around 25 years). What they need is good external toolkit (computer, writing tools, proper software), and access to real, good education (be it specialists or facilities). Also, if you're interested in logic and thinking, then you probably should try a bit of classical philosophy, and Wittgenstein for contrast, and throw in some great psychology book like "Psychology Applied to Modern Life: Adjustment in the 21st Century" and "Core Concepts in Classical Psychoanalysis" (Morris Eagle).
 
Also, I've wrote in the start that I've tried many nootropics during my time. The point is that I was studying at university during that time, and what is really funny, is that, of all things, Sunifiram seemed to be the most effective and most devastating to me; citicoline being the second in terms of appeared effectiveness (I do believe most people do appraise changes from noots subjectively and not with proper RCT experiments, nor did I).
 
(Fortunately, the year on Lyrica, and a bunch of clever psychoanalytic techniques and conversations, too, mostly cured my depression. At least I can't say anymore that I have it (no bad thoughts too). Lyrica also seemed to cure my IBS that I was struggling with since god knows when. So "overall" it has been a "success" (sarcastic one); don't worry, things are going well for me now.)
 
Finally, during that period I've also got a message that said the guy had similar burning pains due to Effexor (after times of drug abuse; alcohol made him paranoid).
That made me think that these "burning pains" may appear from other drugs, in completely different way, and that a course of Lyrica probably may help people with issues like these. The difficult thing is to persuade your doctor to help, though (and insurance, how could I forget insurance?), and to follow with the treatment (especially when nasty side effects start to appear).
 
Be safe.

Edited by suni_hatamoto, 01 October 2020 - 07:51 AM.






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