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Upregulating dopamine/increasing production

dopamine upregulation upregulating tyrosine

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#31 chris106

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

Just trying to bump this interesting thread -

I get 200mg of EGCG through green tea extract everyday along with Deprenyl. Only 1 month in and everything feels fine.

I'm gonna try and report back on it in the future at a later date.


So is this combination still working for you, CrackaLackN? Still the same positive results? What about the increase in body tempereature?

Gynostemma is my bet in improving my dopamine system


Despite the posted positive study - has anyone actually experience with this being true? It seems that Gynostemma/ Jiaogulan isn't mentioned too often in this forum, but whenever it is, the reports are very positive...?

#32 BioFreak

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:23 AM

Some of the replies are great, others not so much. selegiline? nicotine? Yeah right. One should not use these substance unless there is no other choice (like late stage parkinsons). Nicotine is neurotoxic.

Cdp choline, to my knowledge, increases dopamine receptors, not upregulates existing ones. There is no need to cycle it with tyrosine. In fact, it will only take longer to have an effect at all. It is more or less pointless in any case, since tyrosine hydroxylase controls how much tyrosine gets converted into l-dopa, therefore the brain does not need this secondary regulatory mechanism of reducing dopamine receptors.

If one wants to increase dopamine production the FIRST step would be to supply all cofactors(b6, folate, enough calcium in the diet) and upregualtors of tyrosine hydroxylase such as vitamin d3(Don't know of any others).

If that is not enough, you can supplement with phenylalanine and tyrosine. phenylalanine gets in part converted into phenylethylamine, which increases dopamine and noradrenaline, while it also gets converted into tyrosine. tyrosine is the direct precursor to l-dopa which in turn gets converted to dopamine directly. However, chronic and higher dosage tyrosine can deplete the sulfur stores of the body, leading to very nasty problems so I do not recommend it.

so if step 1 (cofactors and upregulator) does not work, go to step 2, precursors.

And if this still does not work, you can move on to mucuna pruriens seed powder (NO EXTRACT!!!! NO STANDARDIZED TO OVER 6% l-dopa POWDER!!!). If you take that, you do not need to take tyrosine anymore, while phenylalanine might still be beneficial. There is a lot of discussion going on about mucuna and its differences to l-dopa, check my posts and replies by others, as well as examine.com page on mucuna, and the human studies to draw your own conclusion. Interestingly though, I have not experienced sulfur depletion symptoms with mucuna as I did with tyrosine.

In ALL stages you can use supplements that increase dopamine receptor count, and/or sensitivity. Only at the sages of mucuna pruriens, dopamine receptor downregulation should be possible, but I experienced no such thing as it would be expected with pure l-dopa.

All of this is more save, natural, and effective then selegiline or nicotine, with mucuna being controversal and highly different, depending on if you use an extract(bad) or whole bean powder...

What I am describing here is pretty much just supporting the bodies natural metabolism, in steps that determine your individual need for more dopamine / catecholamines, with mucuna being the potentially most intrusive way since it contains l-dopa. So the body can still protect itself from what you are doing, like downregulating receptors, using mao enzymes to degrade neurotransmitters, and with the exception of mucuna, downregulate l-dopa conversion in the first place.

By using stimulants, or reuptake inhibitors, you disable important protective mechanisms of the brain, leading to possible brain damage. ritalin and co may cause parkinson in the long term, mao inhibitors have nasty side effects too and you have to watch what you eat (depening on the type of mao inhibitor - a or b, reversible or irreversible, in case of the latter, you have to watch your nutrition for weeks after discontinuing it)

There is no evidence of egcg being a dopamine decarboxylase inhibitor, that does NOT cross the bbb, right? That means that dopaminergic effects in the brain will be reduced, because dopamine can form nowhere in the body, including the brain. It is the point of a dopa decarboxylase inhibitor that it does NOT cross the bbb so l-dopa can only be converted to dopamine in the brain. However, long term this should lead to more dopamine receptors in the whole body because it starves for dopamine. But in the mean time, expect less, and not more dopaminergic effects. And once you stop it, dopamine receptor density will most likely return to normal for most individuals.

Gonna check out Gynostemma :blink:

Edit: LOL!!! Gyno is the plant my girlfriend is giving to her guinea pig after it hat an ischemic stroke. It recovered fully, did not have another one up to this day. She always told me to look into it more... Its easy to grow too.

Edited by BioFreak, 25 April 2013 - 08:30 AM.

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#33 Dissolvedissolve

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

Some of the replies are great, others not so much. selegiline? nicotine? Yeah right. One should not use these substance unless there is no other choice (like late stage parkinsons). Nicotine is neurotoxic.

Cdp choline, to my knowledge, increases dopamine receptors, not upregulates existing ones. There is no need to cycle it with tyrosine. In fact, it will only take longer to have an effect at all. It is more or less pointless in any case, since tyrosine hydroxylase controls how much tyrosine gets converted into l-dopa, therefore the brain does not need this secondary regulatory mechanism of reducing dopamine receptors.


I'm not entirely sure why you are so opposed to selegiline and nicotine. Selegiline is quite safe. The enantiomer of methamphetamine that is produced by selegiline is commonly found in cold medicines and is quite safe. MAO-B inhibition is generally neuroprotective. And nearly all concerns about selegiline are not present for its newer cousin, rasagiline.

Nicotine does have some evidence of mild neurotoxicity, but remember that many of the studies are in rats, and effects in long-term human users do not seem to be dramatic. IE there's certainly no equivalent of Korsakoff's Syndrome for smokers. There are no longitudinal studies showing any loss of cognitive abilities from cigarette usage that I'm aware of, and cigarettes have far more pro-oxidative potential than oral or transdermal delivery methods. There's also evidence that nicotine attenuates some other sources of neurotoxicity. As a final point, it should be obvious that it's unreasonable to connect the pro-oxidative effects of cigarettes with nicotine itself. Nicotine should be evaluated independently with regard to its level of harm delivered as a gum or patch. I am not suggesting that nicotine is perfectly safe - merely that occasional usage of oral or transdermal nicotine is not terribly harmful.

CDP choline's modulation of DA receptor density is via its dissociation into uridine. The same mechanism is accessible and perhaps more prominent with uridine on its own (ie uridine monophosphate). Subjectively, uridine did not "feel" dopaminergic. It felt somewhat sedating and "serotonergic." Also keep in mind that "upregulation" in the context of neuropharmacology almost always refers to an increase in receptor density.
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#34 **DEACTIVATED**

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:57 PM

Just trying to bump this interesting thread -

I get 200mg of EGCG through green tea extract everyday along with Deprenyl. Only 1 month in and everything feels fine.

I'm gonna try and report back on it in the future at a later date.


So is this combination still working for you, CrackaLackN? Still the same positive results? What about the increase in body tempereature?

Gynostemma is my bet in improving my dopamine system


Despite the posted positive study - has anyone actually experience with this being true? It seems that Gynostemma/ Jiaogulan isn't mentioned too often in this forum, but whenever it is, the reports are very positive...?


Same results. Body temperature has been fluctuating lately. Possibly sick though, so I'd rather update in another month.
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#35 chris106

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

There is no evidence of egcg being a dopamine decarboxylase inhibitor, that does NOT cross the bbb, right? That means that dopaminergic effects in the brain will be reduced, because dopamine can form nowhere in the body, including the brain. It is the point of a dopa decarboxylase inhibitor that it does NOT cross the bbb so l-dopa can only be converted to dopamine in the brain. However, long term this should lead to more dopamine receptors in the whole body because it starves for dopamine. But in the mean time, expect less, and not more dopaminergic effects. And once you stop it, dopamine receptor density will most likely return to normal for most individuals

.
Allright, trying to comprehend this - so you are saying that EGCG will temporarely decrease dopaminergic effects, but in the long term it will increase dopamine receptor density in the body -so I should take it long term and cronically for positive effects? (Sorry for asking stupid quetions, but I'm just slowly getting into the whole "brain chemistry" -topic >_<' )

Edit: LOL!!! Gyno is the plant my girlfriend is giving to her guinea pig after it hat an ischemic stroke. It recovered fully, did not have another one up to this day. She always told me to look into it more...


Literally - her guinea pig? That's priceless... :D

Guess I'll get some too, then. Too damn bad I can only find it in tea-powder form from my trusted supplier...oh well, guess I can just fill that into capsules, as well... ^^

Edited by chris106, 26 April 2013 - 11:26 PM.


#36 chris106

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

Does anyone know of a source from where to get selegiline or even better rasagiline from europe?

I've searched the net high and low, and can't even find generic deprenyl...

#37 daouda

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

alldaychemist for both, not from europe but good success shipping there

#38 chemicalambrosia

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

Does anyone know of a source from where to get selegiline or even better rasagiline from europe?

I've searched the net high and low, and can't even find generic deprenyl...


http://brandmedicine...roducts_id=1069

#39 chris106

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:07 PM

Alldaychemist would have been great, cause they are really cheap - unfortunately it just so happens Germany is one of the few countries they don't ship to >_<'

Brandmedicines seems legit, gonna check out if they ship to germany and accept paypal - thanx for that!


Also, I actually did find a few more sources after digging a little deeper:

http://www.sunshinep...10-Tablets.html

http://www.antiaging...ry=selegiline (just scroll down, they offer both for reasonable prices - can't vouch for them myself, though)

http://www.qhi.co.uk (for some reason I can't post the full link - just search for "deprenyl" on their main page. It should show two
results - one brand and one generic!)

http://www.docsimon....pe=&fsub=SEARCH (as you see, not yet in stock. But should they get it soon, I bet it will be dirt cheap :) )


Now, if anyone can vouch for any of these vendors from experience - feel free to comment :)

#40 chung_pao

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:15 AM

Something that has greatly helped me (more than selegiline, rasagiline, racetams, and many other things) is:
*Lowering blood glucose. Not hypoglycemic, but low enough to be motivated.
*Limiting acetylcholine and serotonin synthesis.
If I start my day with taking any choline supplements, I know it'll ruin my motivation for the rest of the day. This is because all neurotransmitter synthesis is limited and balanced (in a healthy brain). You can shift your body into a more sympathetic state, which will naturally yield more dopamine.

Most synthetics and pharmaceuticals are just temporary solutions which you develop tolerance to after a while.
The sympathetic state however, is supposed to be able to be activated at any time.
Modafinil and caffeine are still helpful for dopamine-levels though, when not tolerant to them.

Btw: Good sources of deprenyl, if you're still interested: (shipping to europe)
http://www.eurodrugstore.eu/
http://www.inhousepharmacy.biz/

Edited by chung_pao, 03 June 2013 - 07:16 AM.


#41 brainslugged

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

The sources are nice, a few of them I have never seen before.

Some commonly used sources can be found here http://www.pharmacyr...ine&view=search
Pretty good prices. I don't know about the shipping, though.

Also, I actually did find a few more sources after digging a little deeper:

http://www.sunshinep...10-Tablets.html

http://www.antiaging...ry=selegiline (just scroll down, they offer both for reasonable prices - can't vouch for them myself, though)

http://www.qhi.co.uk (for some reason I can't post the full link - just search for "deprenyl" on their main page. It should show two
results - one brand and one generic!)

http://www.docsimon....pe=&fsub=SEARCH (as you see, not yet in stock. But should they get it soon, I bet it will be dirt cheap :) )


Now, if anyone can vouch for any of these vendors from experience - feel free to comment :)

Sunshine has an amazing price on memantine. If someone tries them then say something, please.

Something that has greatly helped me (more than selegiline, rasagiline, racetams, and many other things) is:
*Lowering blood glucose. Not hypoglycemic, but low enough to be motivated.
*Limiting acetylcholine and serotonin synthesis.
If I start my day with taking any choline supplements, I know it'll ruin my motivation for the rest of the day. This is because all neurotransmitter synthesis is limited and balanced (in a healthy brain). You can shift your body into a more sympathetic state, which will naturally yield more dopamine.

Most synthetics and pharmaceuticals are just temporary solutions which you develop tolerance to after a while.
The sympathetic state however, is supposed to be able to be activated at any time.
Modafinil and caffeine are still helpful for dopamine-levels though, when not tolerant to them.

Btw: Good sources of deprenyl, if you're still interested: (shipping to europe)
http://www.eurodrugstore.eu/
http://www.inhousepharmacy.biz/


I would be interested in how you are lowering acetylcholine and serotonin synthesis.

Also, inhouse is one of the best sources there is. I have heard it is good from several different groups of people. It is kinda expensive, though.



Edit: LOL!!! Gyno is the plant my girlfriend is giving to her guinea pig after it hat an ischemic stroke. It recovered fully, did not have another one up to this day. She always told me to look into it more... Its easy to grow too.

Wow, the cuteness levels of that are through the roof, nursing a guinea pig back to health from a stroke :3

#42 chris106

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:08 PM

Thanx for the links, Chung_Pao, will check them out!

But like Brainslugged I am also very interested in how exactely you are able to lower acethylcholine and serotonin synthesis - could you elaborate?

Edit: Seems like inhousepharmacy don't have deprenyl, and they don't seem to ship to Germany either. Could be wrong about the first statement though, maybe you can only find deprenyl in the search options when you select a certain country?

Edited by chris106, 04 June 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#43 chris106

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:07 PM

Also;


Sunshine has an amazing price on memantine. If someone tries them then say something, please.


Hate to dissapoint you, but I just realized that it seems they only ship inside the UK... So that one's of the list for most of us, too :(

#44 dannyfc

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:52 PM

Thanx for the links, Chung_Pao, will check them out!

But like Brainslugged I am also very interested in how exactely you are able to lower acethylcholine and serotonin synthesis - could you elaborate?

Edit: Seems like inhousepharmacy don't have deprenyl, and they don't seem to ship to Germany either. Could be wrong about the first statement though, maybe you can only find deprenyl in the search options when you select a certain country?


Couldn't find deprenyl when I used the search either. (Based in the UK)

UnitedPharmacies sell it but they've been found to clone cards so would rather avoid them...anywhere else?

#45 chris106

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

I just recently odered jumex (generic deprenyl) from qhi.uk.

I guess it will take some time till the order arrives, though. I also ordered some generic wellbutrin/bupropion from precribe4u.org. Both were relatively affordable.

As soon as they arrive (or don't arrive) I will update you guys - especially curious if any of these shops will prove reliable in getting their shippments past those ridiculous german Nazi customs (I can say that cause I'm german myself :p).

From my experience wether shippments pass customs or not (in countries that have strict rules against importing meds) highly depends on how they are packaged and labeled. I know this because there is one certain generic shop I ordered Modalert from like 100 times in the past and customs never got hold of it...

#46 machete234

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:24 PM

. I know this because there is one certain generic shop I ordered Modalert from like 100 times in the past and customs never got hold of it...

They probably repackaged in the EU, thats why these packages werent inspected.

Strangely enough my jeans get through the customs all the time even though the price is outside on the package and we have to pay taxes above 22€.

I think they really dont care most of the time or have get 1000nds of packages through, but India is always a "weird" country for them and the risk that its inspected is high.

I guess it will take some time till the order arrives, though. I also ordered some generic wellbutrin/bupropion from precribe4u.org. Both were relatively affordable.


Looks like they have a lot of fun stuff, let us (me) know if it works out.

Edited by machete234, 28 July 2013 - 05:26 PM.


#47 Flex

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:52 AM

Brandmedicine is legit.

Are there any Updates regarding EU based Pharmacy´s ?

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#48 kurdishfella

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 02:25 PM

I purposely do everything bad otherwise I dont get a dopamine kick. when I feel like im the best i dont like  it, i like the pleasure of serotonin more when im average feeling. And so not to stand out . I do better with less than others though.


Edited by kurdishfella, 06 March 2021 - 02:29 PM.






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