32 replies to this topic

[MercuryAX]

Hello everyone!

I was wondering, since there are a number of experienced individuals on here, if I could get some advice.

Lately (for a couple years now) I've been experiencing extended periods of time that are just pure brain fog and mental fatigue. It may have to do with the fact that I'm a college student and I'm expected to use my mental facilities a lot. It may also relate to stress, as I find when I take supplements that promote calmness (like 5-HTP) I find it easier to speak my mind and let my emotions out, and things seem sort of clearer.

I've also tried many different nootropics to help alleviate the problem. Racetams largely don't work long term, especially piracetam (which makes me incredibly tired sometimes). Noopept and sunifiram have been somewhat helpful, but not quite enough usually. Vinpocetine makes things clearer but it makes me extremely irritable and angry.

I saw a counselor, who didn't see any reason to diagnose me with a disorder. I considered a deficiency in vitamins, and it's not that. I tried supplementing tyrosine in case I had ADHD, and it only helped mildly. I tried getting more sleep, which also helps but not completely. I have heard exercising CAN help, but I haven't had the energy or motivation to do that lately.

Does anyone have any idea or advice on what to do? Anything at all would help, and I appreciate all of your input

[JohnnyP]

Maybe Ginko and B complex would help?

Edited by JohnnyP, 24 April 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[BioFreak]

I hope you do not use 5-htp long term, as it can suppress dopamine. This means symptoms of sexual dysfunction, adhd symptoms, fatigue, depression, etc...
Vinpocetine can have negative effects on the dopaminergic system. While it may be initially good for you (increased blood flow in the brain) it will produce the symptoms you want to get rid of in the long term, at least according to what I've read, I have no personal experience with this substance.

What could be helpful would be to support the catecholamines, dopamine in general. First try to increase cofactors (b6, b12, folate, d3) and the basic building block phenylalanine. If that does not help, you can go up the chain by using tyrosine, although it depletes sulfur levels in the long term (dose dependent). You can also use mucuna pruriens seed powder, but stay away from any extract (anything with more then 6% l-dopa I would consider an extract). I've written a lot about mucuna, check my posts in the forum (and responses by others, to get the whole picture). I would not recommend to use pure l-dopa or an mucuna extract with more l-dopa as it is quite possible that other parts of the plant are responsible for its neuroprotective and regenerative effects.

Cardio up to the point where it gets anaerobic are a good thing to do, also interval training, but not more then twice a week, also see to it that your sugar levels are stable throughout the day, and that you do get enough protein.

Also, you could experiment with increasing acetylcholine (through cdp choline and alcar combined for example). cdp choline may increase dopamine receptors in the long term, which will help too, and alcar stabilizes blood sugar levels.

Edited by BioFreak, 24 April 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[MercuryAX]

Thank you very much BioFreak, that was very well thought out and informative. I never thought about stabilizing sugar levels, I'll have to look into that. I'm a fairly healthy person but type 2 diabetes has run in my family, so it's possible I'm having sugar issues. Any other supplement tips related?

I also will give dopamine systems a try again, although I'm not sure if that's the issue. Also is there any good alternative for 5HTP, as it often makes my life so much easier and less stressful. This is possibly related to the serotonergic antidepressant activity, but am I correct in assuming that serotonin and dopamine compete?

Thank you again for the advice, and I hope you can answer my new questions

Also I have found ALCAR to work wonders, especially at first. I don't really notice it working as much now. Maybe I need to up the dose? Hmm

[BioFreak]

Yea dopamine and serotonin tend to have an antagonistic relationship. Increase one, decrease the other.
Alcar, thiamine and high intensity cardio do work wonders to stabilize blood sugar, together with regular meals.
Your carb intake should be high enough that your brain works without having low sugar symptoms, but no higher then that. There is no need for carbs anyways then for the brain. (And for high intensity sports.)
I know, 5-htp can feel really good, as it basically shuts down chatter of your subconscious mind, this is why people feel more comfortable with it. But the long term problems are a big price to pay, I learned my lesson, and I feel much better with increased catecholamines then with high serotonin levels. Actually for me mucuna pruriens whole seed powder had a better effect then 5-htp, without the side effects. Just, as I always say, no extracts, just bulk seed powder does the trick (for me, but then again, I had severe dopamine deficienty symptoms, prior to 5-htp, and even more with it long term).

[MercuryAX]

Thanks!

So 5HTP has really bad long term effects? What are they? Can I use it occasionally as a sleep aid and be safe?

Also you got me interested in the macuna seed powder. What's your source of it?

[BioFreak]

5-htp basically supplies your brain with serotonin, and your brain can do nothing to stop this direct conversion. Symptoms, probably for most people at higher dosages would be the same as for ssri's - I had those after a while with 500-600mg/day, my dopamine was severely depleted, although it was low to begin with. Never again.

Every now and then as sleeping aid is ok, but a time release melatonin might be the better choice. My source is in germany, so not a good one for you I guess. Search for mucuna pruriens seed powder, and make sure it says nothing like extract or standardized to x% l-dopa etc... Just the bean of the plant, as powder. I suspect they remove the skin though, as it can get really ichy and I never had problems with that. You should also look at my posts about it and the controversy with other longecity users. mucuna contains l-dopa, and that raises a red flag for many, as pure l-dopa can be nasty stuff. So... inform yourself, get your own educated opinion, and then decide what to do next. Also, there is a good page on examine.com about mucuna, with links to human studies, I would read them.

If you want to use 5-htp for increased confidence every now and then that should not be a problem too... but certainly no continuous and high dose usage.

[Lolofatty]

eliminating dairy form my diet eliminated my brain fog which i've struggled with my entire life

[MercuryAX]

Lolofatty, can you explain a bit more about that? Everyone has been saying to go the vegetable/fruit route...I'm wondering why some people report it eliminating brain fog.

[renfr]

Lolofatty, can you explain a bit more about that? Everyone has been saying to go the vegetable/fruit route...I'm wondering why some people report it eliminating brain fog.

Are you a man or a woman?
If you're a man get your T, estradiol, DHT, SBHG tested right away!
Additionally get your vitamin D tested, these are the most frequent reason for brain fog (an hormonal imbalance or a mineral/vitamin deficiency).
Sure changing your diet is primordial, "you are what you eat" this is really true, what you eat defines your biochemical profile.
Exercise can help a lot also.

Also if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism you may want to check your thyroid.

[MercuryAX]

Lolofatty, can you explain a bit more about that? Everyone has been saying to go the vegetable/fruit route...I'm wondering why some people report it eliminating brain fog.

Are you a man or a woman?
If you're a man get your T, estradiol, DHT, SBHG tested right away!
Additionally get your vitamin D tested, these are the most frequent reason for brain fog (an hormonal imbalance or a mineral/vitamin deficiency).
Sure changing your diet is primordial, "you are what you eat" this is really true, what you eat defines your biochemical profile.
Exercise can help a lot also.

Also if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism you may want to check your thyroid.

I'm a 21 year old male, my diet largely consists of carbs (pasta, bread) and probably too little fruit and vegetables. This is mostly due to the lack of good food sources, being a college student. I'm not sure whether it's worth switching to mostly salad from the salad bar, however. I've always had difficulty staying on task, although I'm certain it's not a symptom of ADHD. One other thing to note is I have some pretty severe hair loss. I assume it's genetic because my dad is almost completely bald, but I'm 21 for heck's sake.

Edited by MercuryAX, 25 May 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[renfr]

Hair loss is due to excess DHT, biotin might help a lot with that. Hair loss can also be due to oxidative stress, your diet is probably not adequate which cause the hair loss. I also had severe hair loss years ago but my diet was the average western diet.
Changing your diet isn't about eating salads, this is a false conception.
I'd say you have to remove anything that is unhealthy.
- remove most of processed foods, I'm talking about foods you'd gnaw on, such as sauce, pizza, chips, salted nuts, biscuits such as oreo, etc... see what kind of things I'm reffering to?
- you can keep the pasta, go easy on bread, it's better if it's whole bread, you need carbs just keep the good ones, you can even eat fries from time to time (but put them in olive oil)
- exclude white sugar, prefer brown sugar or for best results prefer stevia (pure stevia and not BS such as purevia and truvia which are fake stevia)
- reduce caffeine intake significantly, it makes your hormones go out of whack and increases stress levels, if you could replace your morning coffee with black tea it would be optimal
- remove cow milk from your diet, it has been proven to be deleterious to your health, for example it messes up with your hormones and increases inflammatory markers such as IGF-1
human adults shouldn't drink milk, you can drink other kind of milks that aren't mamalian such as chestnut, almond milk for example
- don't take margarine and replace your butter with grass fed butter, and yes you can keep the butter, it is actually good for your health
- you might want to increase your omega 3 intake to balance with high omega 6 present in our diets
- you can eat all kind of meat but avoid meat byproducts, sausages and non cooked meat
- add fruits to your diet, never drink processed juices, they're filled with added sugar, if you have a blender you can make your own fruit juices with real fruits if you don't like eating them, that's what I do
the only fruit you should avoid is grapes as they contain phytoestrogens
- if you feel stressed oftenly then you're probably magneisum deficient (like almost everyone else with an average diet) so you might want to supplement magnesium which counters oxidative stress and increases cognition
Probably there are a lot of other things you can do, I don't have them in mind but here's a little list of tips that can help you achieve a better diet

Edited by renfr, 25 May 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[MercuryAX]

Wow, that is a very detailed post, Renfr. Lots of very interesting tips, thank you! I'll definitely have to reevaluate some parts of my diet. I didn't know milk was unhealthy at all, so this is quite surprising. I am also a stevia fan, but didn't know that truvia and purevia were fake (how are they?)...where shall I get my stevia from then? What do you recommend drinking then, if I take my usuals (artificially sweetened water, milk) out of the picture?

Oh and what about soy milk? I've heard something about soy being bad for brain fog

Sorry for so many questions, you've been very helpful, haha!

[Lolofatty]

Lolofatty, can you explain a bit more about that? Everyone has been saying to go the vegetable/fruit route...I'm wondering why some people report it eliminating brain fog.

The reason I think this worked for me is because I must have a sensitivity to casein protein found in dairy. from what I can gather, anything I have an allergy or sensitivity to that I ingest causes my body to use all of it's resources to attack it and the ending result is brain fog. (And from my research, it's not just me)

Please do not cut out meat. Your brain needs it to function properly. I highly recommend the book Primal Body, Primal Mind for more on how diet effects your body and brain. I also recommend an elimination diet to find out what your body can tolerate.

I know this is difficult- coming from someone who is OBSESSED with cheese, it is worth it. I feel as though I can really live my life. For what it's worth I've been following the Paleo diet, but it all really clicked once I cut the dairy, for you it could be gluten, dairy, nuts...who knows.

[socialpiranha]

excercising is definitely the best treatment for brain fog as well as many other issues, the problem is, usually the same reasons that are causing your brain fog are causing your lack of desire to exercise. Diet can be a factor, i would suggest completely eliminating refined sugar and leaving it as simple as that. Almost anything without refined sugar is fairly good for you anyway. Secondarily i would suggest any plant or drug which reverses insulin sensitivity.

There is a reason why diabetes is so prevalent in our society and that is lack of exercise and consumption of large amounts of refined sugar which both lead to insulin sensitivity and consequently disturbed glucose homeostasis. Will/brain power has been directly linked to glucose availability in certain parts of the brain. Glucose equates to energy in the brain, a lack of which can cause automatism, irritability, confusion,exhaustion, lack of impulse control etc. So a lack of glucose supply is the cause of "brain fog" and having brain fog prevents one from doings things which might alleviate brain fog. This is why glucose homeostasis must be restored in order to bridge the gap before anything can change. otherwise the condition just gets worse and in some cases bad enough to be diagnosed as diabetes.

Consumption of certain fats can also contribute to the problem but less so than refined sugar. I suppose it would help to limit your saturated fat intake as well.

Here are a few plants and drugs which can help restore insulin sensitivity.

-cerebrolysin
-luteolin
-icariin
-mexidol
-mildronate
-celastrol
-troxerutin
-alpha lipoic acid

just to name a few. Interestingly increased insulin sensitivity seems to equate to increased brain derived neurotrophic factor which is low in chronic stress and depressive conditions.

[MercuryAX]

Thanks for all of the excellent info, everyone. I recently cut dairy from my diet and I do notice that I'm feeling less sleepy during the day. I'm also taking Thaimin and ALCAR to help with the blood glucose levels. I'm still wondering though, what else can I do to help with random brain fog during tasks. For example, I will randomly lose concentration and I feel like it's the result of a lack of mental energy in some area.

[Valor5]

My 2 cents. You may not like what I shall say and I personally don't like saying it, but, just to rule it out. Masturbation, is a problem. Also, another suggestion is not to eat too much (satisfy your hunger though, just not to the point of gluttony) at one sitting and also since you are mostly sedentary to consume no more than 2 or 3 kinds of fruit (combined well) at one sitting and just eat that. Exercise helps,it may not be the complete cure depending on whether it is a lifestyle issue or something more serious like a brain injury you have to find out what is triggering your brain fog. If it is lifestyle then all this advice is worth following. I am vegetarian so you know where I stand on that.

[gg141717]

Like valory5 said, eating to much really gives alot of brain fog, eat healthy and in small portions it really helps.

[fuzza]

Acetyl L-Carnitine + Omega 3's with CoQ10.

Experiemnt with the dose of Acetyl L-Carnitine. 2 grams a day should have you rockin. Works magic and many people experience large increase in general motivation, especially for exercise.
Excerise does help... move the body to feed all the cells with energy and flush the organs.... yoga or some light running will get things moving...

[MercuryAX]

Thanks again for all the replies, and I must say that my brain fog has been mostly lifted after following this advice. I have known that eating less is good, and am taking better awareness of that now.

About ALCAR, is it possible to become resistant to it? Whenever I've taken it after a period of abstinence, I have felt a surge of energy that feels awesome, then I just feel normal, maybe a bit stronger times after. What's with the initial burst? Does that make sense?

I also heard that masturbation reduces dopamine levels, yeah. I'm guessing that means an orgasm in general right?

Is there any merit to the all fruit diet for laser sharp focus? I dunno if I believe that.

[Valor5]

I think the idea of having two or three types of fruit is that you will be nourished and not put too much work on your stomach so that your blood will be in your head and not your stomach. You don't have to do this all the time but perhaps if all you are doing is studying/being sedentary. Fasting is another option for a day, but for a student probably the simple fruit diet will provide sufficient energy and focus. Its not going to make you a savant, nothing can do that. It depends on your activity level. If you are a bodybuilder and a student then this would not apply. You can eat something like grapes with blueberries or drupe type fruits like peach, apricot, plum, and cherry or aggregate type fruits like fig, blackberry, pineapple or pepol type fruits like melon and pumpkin. These will provide you with water, sugars, starch (banana has the most, 1 to 2 percent), organic acids, vitamins, and phytochemicals. If you are worried about protein add some easy to digest whey protein or greek yogurt and you are set.

Edited by Valor5, 05 June 2013 - 04:05 AM.

[Lolofatty]

you need animal protein and fat in you diet for a healthy brain and body. listen to this for more:

[jcuecker]

I ahve been suffering form Brain Fog for a few years now. I can second Lolofatty sugestion of cutting out dairy/gluten sources as being very effective. My brain fog has finnaly lifted after cutting out gluten two weeks ago (I cut out dairy a year ago). It has also greatly reduced my Social Anxiety / light depression as well as skin/digestive issues.

[Valor5]

You don't need animal protein or certain fats like trans-fatty acids. Get your fats from seeds and nuts etc. Processed oils not organic carry toxic substances like organic phosphate insecticides because they are liposoluble meaning soluble in fats such as oil. The refining process has as its specific objective, the elimination of most unsaponifiable substances that are considered industrially as impurities, even though some of them are of great value in therapeutic diets. Some are, vitamin e, a, phytosterols, lecithin and minerals. There are many winning triathletes who are vegetarians. Why do you want to eat your food second hand when you can get it first hand? Her youtube video has more thumbs down then up. Here is a critique of her writing from Amazon, take it for whatever it is worth. Frankly, I don't think it is even relevant to this topic.

Most Helpful Customer Reviews


2,689 of 2,865 people found the following review helpful

1.0 out of 5 stars Disappointing May 30, 2010
By A. Perri
Format:Paperback

I want to be clear about a few things:

1) I am a female.
2) I give the idea of this book 5 stars, but its execution 1.
3) I have been a radical vegan, a rabid meat-eater and everything in between (currently in the in-between)
4) I am working on an archaeological PhD on hunter-gatherer diets, subsistence, hunting and transition to agriculture.

I picked this book up after reading Jonathan Safran Foer's "Eating Animals". I thought it would be interesting to read a different perspective on the vegetarian debate. I found Safran Foer's book to be much more geared towards the inhumane practices of meat while Keith's book is geared more towards diet/health.

I admit that it took a very long time for me to get through this book, for several reasons. I purchased this book hoping to get something out of it. I am not an upset vegan who wants to hate it and I am not someone who bought it knowing Id love it. I was just neutral. There were two main reasons for my disappointment with the book. One minor, one major. First, I found the second agendas (specifically the radical feminism) distracting and unnecessary. I have nothing against the feminist agenda, but this wasnt the place to put it. Second, I found the book absolutely riddled with bad information, faulty facts and just plain lazy research (if you can call it 'research'). As someone who intensively researches these issues on a daily basis, I found myself underlining items on nearly every page that I knew were just plain untrue or were 'cherry-picked' facts slanted to give a certain perception. This is such a disappointment as a really great case could be made for the author's view if she had only put the real work into researching the book properly. Once you lose the reader's trust that you are providing factual information what do you have? Ill provide examples:

1) pg. 140: The author states that "Carbon-13 is a stable isotope present in two places: grasses and the bodies of animals that eat grasses". She goes on to suggest that since there is no evidence of grass "scratch marks" on the human teeth found, that they must have been eating animals. There are many flaws in this thought process. First, I cant even begin to explain the preservation and degradation issues present in examining three million year old teeth for 'scratch marks'. Second, carbon-13 is an isotope found in ALL terrestrial and marine plants, not just grass. Finding high levels of C3 or C4 (which are what carbon-13 breaks down into) in human teeth only means that that human was eating large amounts of SOME plant, seed, nut, etc. (not JUST grass) or the animal that ate those. It is not as simple as GRASS OR COW.

2) pg. 142: The author states that there are no bacteria in the human stomach. This is simply untrue. In 2005 Barry Marshall and Robin Warren won a Nobel Prize in Medicine for discovering a stomach bacteria that causes gastritis and ulcer disease. There are currently over 130 known stomach bacteria.

3) pg. 146: The author states a "rumor" authored by RB Lee about hunter-gatherers getting 65% of their calories from plants and 35% from meat. She states that this "simply isnt true". First, this rumor-spreader is one of the most well-respected anthropological/archaeological researchers in hunter-gatherer studies who edited what is considered THE tome on hunter-gatherer theory, 'Man the Hunter'. He isnt some random hack. Second, saying those numbers 'simply arent true' is simply not true. Hunter-gatherers did and do inhabit a huge range of environments and likewise their diets cover a wide range. Some do follow the 65/35% number. Some eat much more meat. Some eat much less.

These are only three examples from a span of six pages. This pattern continues throughout the entire book. Fact is the authors 'facts' just arent believable (which, again, is a shame because a factual book on this topic could be powerful). She writes as if the anthropological and archaeological evidence she quotes is written in stone, when in fact many of these topics are constantly under revision or not well understood yet. Most importantly, I just believe that writing a book and promoting it as a factual, scientific account of a subject when it is not is doing a great disservice to your (mostly) unknowing readers. If you are not willing to put in the real research effort, write a book that is touted as a personal account and nothing more. Selling flubbed facts to people who are truly searching for answers, inspiration or (insert what you are looking for here) is just bad journalism.

Ill end this review with some facts and encourage any readers (whether you liked the book, hated the book or havent read the book) to always question whether what you are reading is true and to do some research of your own.

The author cites 207 references in this book.
62 of those references are websites (~30%)
18 are newspapers and magazines (~7%)
32 are journals (~15%)
95 are other books (~46%)

First of all, think about that. 30% of the references in this book come from website information. Five of those 62 website references were Wikipedia. Wikipedia! One was Google Answers. I wont let my freshmen students use Wikipedia as a reference in their papers, why would it be acceptable for a book? Like websites, newspaper and magazine information needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Of the 32 journals less than half come from well known, peer-reviewed sources. The remaining 46% are books, which can truly say anything the author cares to print (as this one does) and only show that the author is getting her information from another source (and another opinion) aside from the primary one. The point of this is to make clear that this is a book that is sold as (and which many positive reviews hype as) providing scientific, factual, intellectual knowledge on the vegetarian/diet/health debate. In reality less than 8% of the book is coming from peer-reviewed, fact-checked sources which can provide unbiased, neutral information.

If anything I hope this review encourages people to get away from the bias on either side, find factual scientific sources instead of second-third-fourth hand knowledge, check information for yourself instead of blindly believing an author, and to question published material and push for it to actually be factual if it presented as such.

[MercuryAX]

Does anyone know how I could plan a diet with limited food options? I'm going to be in college another 2 years, and most of my food will probably come from the dining hall. I can afford a few additional things, but again this is limited.

[renfr]

You don't need animal protein or certain fats like trans-fatty acids. Get your fats from seeds and nuts etc. Processed oils not organic carry toxic substances like organic phosphate insecticides because they are liposoluble meaning soluble in fats such as oil. The refining process has as its specific objective, the elimination of most unsaponifiable substances that are considered industrially as impurities, even though some of them are of great value in therapeutic diets. Some are, vitamin e, a, phytosterols, lecithin and minerals. There are many winning triathletes who are vegetarians. Why do you want to eat your food second hand when you can get it first hand? Her youtube video has more thumbs down then up. Here is a critique of her writing from Amazon, take it for whatever it is worth. Frankly, I don't think it is even relevant to this topic.

Really, veganism is retarded and look at the damage it causes, severe deficiencies in zinc, in B12 that cause neurodegeneration, blindness and so on...
Most of vegans are forced to use supplements to live that way, using supplements is not "natural", there weren't any supplement in prehistoric times.
Since the dawn of times man has been killing beasts to eat them, beasts also kill other beasts to nourish themselves, what's wrong with this? You're just going against nature this wa

[Valor5]

You don't need animal protein or certain fats like trans-fatty acids. Get your fats from seeds and nuts etc. Processed oils not organic carry toxic substances like organic phosphate insecticides because they are liposoluble meaning soluble in fats such as oil. The refining process has as its specific objective, the elimination of most unsaponifiable substances that are considered industrially as impurities, even though some of them are of great value in therapeutic diets. Some are, vitamin e, a, phytosterols, lecithin and minerals. There are many winning triathletes who are vegetarians. Why do you want to eat your food second hand when you can get it first hand? Her youtube video has more thumbs down then up. Here is a critique of her writing from Amazon, take it for whatever it is worth. Frankly, I don't think it is even relevant to this topic.

Really, veganism is retarded and look at the damage it causes, severe deficiencies in zinc, in B12 that cause neurodegeneration, blindness and so on...
Most of vegans are forced to use supplements to live that way, using supplements is not "natural", there weren't any supplement in prehistoric times.
Since the dawn of times man has been killing beasts to eat them, beasts also kill other beasts to nourish themselves, what's wrong with this? You're just going against nature this wa

Pretentious ignorance, lets see who the retard is. You can get B12 from eggs or milk or supplements, even some algea, or tempeh if you like. If you want to eat meat fine with me (but it is at a greater cost to the planet, animals and yourself). I bet you a million dollars in measures of strength, intelligence, memory etc with a vegetarian group vs. a carnivore group they would wipe the floor with them. As far as using supplements not necessary if you do it correctly. You have to be intelligent to be vegetarian. Please provide references where it causes those things you mention. I've heard of a study saying that carnivores are more deficient in B12 than vegetarians, so...

Grapes prevent blindness, http://www.medindia....ess-96329-1.htm.

Dairy products will create cataracts in those predisposed genetically who cannot metabolize galactose, causing opaqueness in the lens, so excessive use is not recommended especially in the elderly. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1901325.

The more fat in the diet, the higher the risk of cataracts, same for butter (worst of all) and too much salt http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8680624.

Glaucoma is exacerbated because of intraocular pressure, so reduce or eliminate trans-fatty acids, coffee and caffeinated beverages and excess in protein.

I recommend spinach, broccoli, carrots and apricots these provide Vitamins A, carotenoids, and Vitamins C and E, found almost exclusively in plant products. These foods will help prevent conjunctivitis, cataracts, glaucoma, loss of visual acuity, macular degeneration, and night blindness.

Too much zinc is not good, above 100mg in supplement form, because it lowers immunity http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6471270 but you can get it safely from legumes, wheat germ, and sesame.

As far as neurodegeneration is concerned, Alzheimer related avoid aluminum in cooking utensils or if you must cook in aluminum do not cook acidic foods like tomatoes, use of antacid medications, soft drinks in aluminum cans, tap water if high in aluminum, cured cheeses, alcoholic beverages. Silicon hinders the absorption of aluminum. For this benefit eat green leafy vegetables.

See, Dietary fat intake and the risk of incident dementia in the Rotterdam Study.

The issue of diet is not so simple the best solution would be to grow your own things that way you can control what it is your eating. When you trust others to feed you, GMO's, chemical contamination, multinational corporations with their agendas...Think organic.

Edited by Valor5, 09 June 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[renfr]

You don't need animal protein or certain fats like trans-fatty acids. Get your fats from seeds and nuts etc. Processed oils not organic carry toxic substances like organic phosphate insecticides because they are liposoluble meaning soluble in fats such as oil. The refining process has as its specific objective, the elimination of most unsaponifiable substances that are considered industrially as impurities, even though some of them are of great value in therapeutic diets. Some are, vitamin e, a, phytosterols, lecithin and minerals. There are many winning triathletes who are vegetarians. Why do you want to eat your food second hand when you can get it first hand? Her youtube video has more thumbs down then up. Here is a critique of her writing from Amazon, take it for whatever it is worth. Frankly, I don't think it is even relevant to this topic.

Really, veganism is retarded and look at the damage it causes, severe deficiencies in zinc, in B12 that cause neurodegeneration, blindness and so on...
Most of vegans are forced to use supplements to live that way, using supplements is not "natural", there weren't any supplement in prehistoric times.
Since the dawn of times man has been killing beasts to eat them, beasts also kill other beasts to nourish themselves, what's wrong with this? You're just going against nature this wa

Pretentious ignorance, lets see who the retard is. You can get B12 from eggs or milk or supplements, even some algea, or tempeh if you like. If you want to eat meat fine with me (but it is at a greater cost to the planet, animals and yourself). I bet you a million dollars in measures of strength, intelligence, memory etc with a vegetarian group vs. a carnivore group they would wipe the floor with them. As far as using supplements not necessary if you do it correctly. You have to be intelligent to be vegetarian. Please provide references where it causes those things you mention. I've heard of a study saying that carnivores are more deficient in B12 than vegetarians, so...

Grapes prevent blindness, http://www.medindia....ess-96329-1.htm.

Dairy products will create cataracts in those predisposed genetically who cannot metabolize galactose, causing opaqueness in the lens, so excessive use is not recommended especially in the elderly. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1901325.

The more fat in the diet, the higher the risk of cataracts, same for butter (worst of all) and too much salt http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8680624.

Glaucoma is exacerbated because of intraocular pressure, so reduce or eliminate trans-fatty acids, coffee and caffeinated beverages and excess in protein.

I recommend spinach, broccoli, carrots and apricots these provide Vitamins A, carotenoids, and Vitamins C and E, found almost exclusively in plant products. These foods will help prevent conjunctivitis, cataracts, glaucoma, loss of visual acuity, macular degeneration, and night blindness.

Too much zinc is not good, above 100mg in supplement form, because it lowers immunity http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6471270 but you can get it safely from legumes, wheat germ, and sesame.

As far as neurodegeneration is concerned, Alzheimer related avoid aluminum in cooking utensils or if you must cook in aluminum do not cook acidic foods like tomatoes, use of antacid medications, soft drinks in aluminum cans, tap water if high in aluminum, cured cheeses, alcoholic beverages. Silicon hinders the absorption of aluminum. For this benefit eat green leafy vegetables.

See, Dietary fat intake and the risk of incident dementia in the Rotterdam Study.

The issue of diet is not so simple the best solution would be to grow your own things that way you can control what it is your eating. When you trust others to feed you, GMO's, chemical contamination, multinational corporations with their agendas...Think organic.

Eggs and milk are animal products, this wouldn't work for vegans.
As for vegetarians, you'd have to eat several eggs and glasses of milk to get daily requirement.
Vegans exist because now we're able to create supplements, they wouldn't otherwise.
Blindness is a side effect of vitamin b12 deficiency grapes won't do anything this is an utter fraud really. You don't cure a consequence you cure the cause if you wants results.
Grass fed butter has on the contrary been shown to be rather healthy, the fact that fats and butter are bad are an old misconception that is still popular among some doctors and nutritionnists but this has already been debunked for several years now.
This study doesn't say which kind of fat, fat is essential to your body, all your cells are made of fat.
I never talked about getting insane amounts of zinc, zinc is hard to find in adequate quantities apart from meat plus this kind of zinc is less absorbed than zinc from meat.
Too little zinc in your food will cause massive copper absorption and a buildup which will cause toxicity.
If you're afraid of these things then buy organic food, who the hell would grow his own food? Unless you live in a farm that's impossible for the vast majority.

[Valor5]

I WAS NOT FINISHED WITH MY REPLY. HERE IS THE NEW EDITED VERSION. SORRY. YOU ARE A BIT QUICK ON THE DRAW.

You don't need animal protein or certain fats like trans-fatty acids. Get your fats from seeds and nuts etc. Processed oils not organic carry toxic substances like organic phosphate insecticides because they are liposoluble meaning soluble in fats such as oil. The refining process has as its specific objective, the elimination of most unsaponifiable substances that are considered industrially as impurities, even though some of them are of great value in therapeutic diets. Some are, vitamin e, a, phytosterols, lecithin and minerals. There are many winning triathletes who are vegetarians. Why do you want to eat your food second hand when you can get it first hand? Her youtube video has more thumbs down then up. Here is a critique of her writing from Amazon, take it for whatever it is worth. Frankly, I don't think it is even relevant to this topic.

Really, veganism is retarded and look at the damage it causes, severe deficiencies in zinc, in B12 that cause neurodegeneration, blindness and so on...
Most of vegans are forced to use supplements to live that way, using supplements is not "natural", there weren't any supplement in prehistoric times.
Since the dawn of times man has been killing beasts to eat them, beasts also kill other beasts to nourish themselves, what's wrong with this? You're just going against nature this wa

I am not vegan. I eat eggs, and sometimes milk products or a B12 supplement or all three. You can get B12 from eggs or milk or supplements, even some algea, or tempeh if you like. B12 deficiency is rare because the liver can store up to a three year supply. It is a dangerous condition for those without "intrinsic factor," a genetic condition affecting a minority of people. Don't blow it out of proportion. These people need special help. But meat eating is not the solution necessarily because they would have to eat a great deal of it which has dire consequences. It is also dangerous for ignorant people who radically adopt a vegan diet, which I do not endorse. Good eggs and milk is important, organic if possible but not excessive. I am not wholly against meat eating but it is not the best diet. I bet you a million dollars in measures of strength, intelligence, memory etc with a vegetarian group vs. a carnivore group they would wipe the floor with them. Why don't you go and wrestle a gorilla? As far as using supplements not necessary if you do it correctly. You have to be intelligent to be vegetarian. Please provide references. I've heard of a study saying that carnivores are more deficient in B12 than vegetarians, but I can't remember where so... as far as going against nature is concerned, our teeth resemble those of vegetable consuming animals than carnivores. Going against nature, give me a break. I was not created to kill animals but to care for them and enjoy them as part of the wonderful creation.

Grapes prevent blindness, http://www.medindia....ess-96329-1.htm.

Dairy products will create cataracts in those predisposed genetically who cannot metabolize galactose, causing opaqueness in the lens, so excessive use is not recommended especially in the elderly. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1901325.

The more fat in the diet, the higher the risk of cataracts, same for butter (worst of all) and too much salt http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8680624.

Glaucoma is exacerbated because of intraocular pressure, so reduce or eliminate trans-fatty acids, coffee and caffeinated beverages and excess in protein.

I recommend spinach, broccoli, carrots and apricots these provide Vitamins A, carotenoids, and Vitamins C and E, found almost exclusively in plant products. These foods will help prevent conjunctivitis, cataracts, glaucoma, loss of visual acuity, macular degeneration, and night blindness.

Too much zinc is not good, above 100mg in supplement form, because it lowers immunity http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6471270 but you can get it safely from legumes, wheat germ, and sesame.

As far as neurodegeneration is concerned, Alzheimer related avoid aluminum in cooking utensils or if you must cook in aluminum do not cook acidic foods like tomatoes, use of antacid medications, soft drinks in aluminum cans, tap water if high in aluminum, cured cheeses, alcoholic beverages. Silicon hinders the absorption of aluminum. For this benefit eat green leafy vegetables.

See, Dietary fat intake and the risk of incident dementia in the Rotterdam Study.

The issue of diet is not so simple the best solution would be to grow your own things that way you can control what it is your eating. When you trust others to feed you, GMO's, chemical contamination, multinational corporations with their agendas...Think organic. I hope this helps.

Edited by Valor5, 09 June 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Valor5]

Are you a 100% carnivore? If you are not STFU.

renfr, you are blowing things out of proportion. You don't see herbivores (like gorillas) dropping dead because of lack of B12 or zinc. You do not need B12 every day. The liver can store it for years. So a steady supply will always be available from an adequate diet. One fresh egg will provide almost double the RDA. Tempeh will provide 1 microgram per 100 grams, spirulina can supply you with B12, good milk products. But to play it safe do take a supplement or eat meat sufficient for the need. I have never had any type of neurodegeneration issue from over 20 years of my vegetarianism and many people I know. There is more sickness, death and degeneracy among meat eaters then there are problems among vegetarians (diabetes, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, arteriolsclerosis, cardiovascular disease). There is no such thing as a complete carnivore that is just as extreme as veganism.

Please provide references, You cannot debunk nutritional fact anymore than you would be able to debunk gravity.

Are you insane there is 4 times more zinc in wheat germ than in lean beef. You can also get it from sesame, maple sugar, cashew, soybean, brazil nut, pine nut, oats, mung bean, black strap mollasses, alfalfa sprouts, spinach, asparagus, potatoes and its absorbtion is adequate. This is a trace element in the diet and getting it is not hard.

Who would grow their own food? People who are not lazy and intelligent, and have some land, that's who. The people who provide you with food otherwise you would not exist.

But as far as brain fog is concerned, diet will not solve everything good habits have to be practiced especially high intensity exercise like running that will build your endurance, avoid fatty foods see my thread on D2 receptor density and other caveats.

Edited by Valor5, 09 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.