12 replies to this topic

[Alizee]

I'm not sure if this is the right sub-forum. Anyways, I fear the thought of losing my grandmother, age 71, since she is really my best friend. Her brothers and sisters live till about 85 on average, but still I know I am going to lose her eventually, and forever. I try to spend as much time with her as I can, but it's kind of unrealistic too. She does not share my philosophy on life extension, so I don't discuss things like cyronics (nor could I afford it for her right now).

How do you guys deal with losing a love one, and knowing they haven't had the opportunity of life-extension? and then losing them forever.

[Lister]

Without including religion of course I still have trouble viewing life as something that ONLY exists within the brief confines of one life. I’ve always felt that life is some form of training for some greater journey or greater existence.

Ultimately there is almost no harm in believing there is more to this than just one life. If there is more then we’ll find out. If there is nothing then when we die we’re gone and we won’t be able to regret living our lives believing there was more.

One of my friends mentioned the other day of a belief in something like two judges. When you die you see the first judge; all you have to do is face this judge and you will move onto a higher existence. If you cannot face this judge out of fear/regret/weakness then you pass onto the second judge. If you can face the second (lesser) judge then you are reborn as a human, if you cannot then you are reborn as an animal or insect or plant. The whole point of life is to give you the strength to face these two judges and to evolve into a higher life form.

The strength you hold when you face these judges ultimately determines what life you end up living. If you’re weak when you face the second judge you end up living a very poor, depressed life which over the course of many lives gives you greater strength resulting in fuller, better lives and eventually strength enough to face the first judge.

Interesting theory... Consider it when speaking with your Gran as I do when speaking with my Grandpa.

[Mind]

Until I see any evidence that my consciousness (or mind) will live on in some other realm, I am assuming dead people are just dead. Gone. Forever.

Many of my friends and relatives have not yet "found" the idea of unlimited lifespans. It is sad. I bring the subject up - in light conversation with the hope that the idea might catch on eventually. For my religious relatives I try to tell myself that they will die happy, because of the belief in an afterlife, which is about the best I can hope for.

I feel the life extension meme will catch (more) fire in the next decade, so there is hope that perhaps your grandma will also have time to benefit,

[Alizee]

I share the same belief, but I also believe (assuming Christianity is right, and I'm not hardcore about this) that Jesus will eventually come again, and so I might as well wait until he comes. Otherwise, I'm not taking my chances and going to strive to live as long as I can.

I am not sure if my grandmother will benefit as she is already in her early 70s. The most I can assume is that she'll live to her late 80s, but chances are slim she'll make it to escape velocity.

[Jakare]

Ultimately there is almost no harm in believing there is more to this than just one life. If there is more then we’ll find out. If there is nothing then when we die we’re gone and we won’t be able to regret living our lives believing there was more.

Almost! If such belief makes investments of time and money in life extension research more unlikely to happen, even if it is only for small proportion, then such apparently harmless belief can turn into quite a killer. Not much of a difference for Alizee grandma though, so no need to push the issue.

Instead of being worried by the lost, one should become aware of what a privilege is to share that person company now and get the most of it having more quality time, as you are already doing. (Sorry, that is quite obvious). As you said, she is not dead and is likely to live for another 14 years or so.

I think of my people, and quite probably me also (let's face it), as seasonal flowers. Part of our beauty is in the fact that we wont last (a beauty I could live without, but if it is the only thing I have got I will take it). The thing is people should have the right to confront their death their way. At the end of the day we are all alone. You need to be a bit of a solipsist to be an immortalist, only a bit.

Edited by Jakare, 27 April 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Mind]

The most I can assume is that she'll live to her late 80s, but chances are slim she'll make it to escape velocity.

It depends on how much we all work and contribute toward the goal. We can make it happen a lot quicker.

[Droplet]

Until I see any evidence that my consciousness (or mind) will live on in some other realm, I am assuming dead people are just dead. Gone. Forever.

Many of my friends and relatives have not yet "found" the idea of unlimited lifespans. It is sad. I bring the subject up - in light conversation with the hope that the idea might catch on eventually. For my religious relatives I try to tell myself that they will die happy, because of the belief in an afterlife, which is about the best I can hope for.

I feel the life extension meme will catch (more) fire in the next decade, so there is hope that perhaps your grandma will also have time to benefit,

This one has touched me recently with my parents. They're not that old at the moment but I looked at some photos and saw just how far the aging process has gone. Thing is they're not even open to the idea of life extension despite not being religious and the one saying they'd hate to die. They're like "it would be nice..." then dismiss it and go back to their TV or whatever. I think they have a problem believing in it as a possible and reachable goal.

I do try not to think about it but it does get me from time to time that I will be losing them forever courtesy of mother nature and her measly lifespan deal for homo sapiens.

[Julia36]

Forever's a long time and time may be something only used in a minority of universes.

Most of us here I think, are looking at stuff from science models.
I recommend you look at the Quantum Archaeology link and also Ettinger's The Prospect of Immortality.
Cryonics can save data about people which may make their recovery easier.

There are other ideas like time travel. Technology a billion years hence will probably do things thought impossible today.

I doubt a grandmother is beyond future retrieval technology whether she's frozen or retro scanned by A.I.'s.

Man keeps assuming he is somehow outside science, but the evidence is we are the predictable interactions of physics laws.

Science is a belief system. It's dynamic and possibly infinite!

Edited by Innocent, 22 August 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[Layberinthius]

One thing which hasn't been discussed is the possibility of cloning your mother or father from their own genes and recreating them in the future as a companion or a friend that you can get to know, just throwing this idea out there.

I have two elderly parents to take care of, one is 67 the other (my mom) is a bit less.

I have told them both about the existence of cryogenics and pills and a calorie restricted diet, but neither of them seem interested. My mother does but my father contributes to her depression, so the easiest method, calorie restriction, is out of the question for her until my father passes away, or goes into a home.

One thing which I'm reminded of constantly is the inevitability of my father's passing away, through nice little things like "when I pass away" or "I'm going to pass away soon" or "I won't be around for much longer"

The thing which gets me through it is the constant thought of being "in the moment" and not giving into my father's wonderful little mindfucks. This is how I keep young at heart.

But I'm not reckless, infact I'm one of the least reckless people you have ever met, yet I feel this intense urge to skydive and do reckless things.

The fact of the matter is, some people are just so far gone, my father being one of them, he has experienced so many dreadful emotions in his life that all he ever thinks about is those thoughts, like for example that time that he witnessed two people die in a car crash (vw beetle) and watched a guy's flailing arms waving around inside the car as he burned alive, thats something that you need to come to terms with witnessing, and its so depressing, yet I am reminded of that story.

The only thing which would save him is possibly selectivley destroying certian memories, not through electroshock or anything like that but through nanobots and drugs.

This is where religion can help to a great degree, by letting elderly people realise that there is an afterlife which may save them now, they can come to terms with dying and feel almost good about it.

Sometimes its best to just let him/them pass away. even if it means that you love them very much. My father though he flat out refuses to see a psychiatrist/psychologist to talk about his feelings, yet another old "masculine" tradition I think. But we are suffering for it, me and my mother are, to a great degree. So there is a real nasty selfish side to growing old too.

It would be easier to "pull a tooth from a lion" than convince him to be nicer to us, or to change his selfish ways in any form, even if it helps him live longer.

By taking personal responsibility for getting older means not being selfish aswell.

I have nearly broken my back and lost my mind when taking care of my father and frankly he was a very selfish person to let me get to this state. So being selfish should not be a part of growing old, it can end up causing injury to other people.

Forever's a long time and time may be something only used in a minority of universes.

There are other ideas like time travel. Technology a billion years hence will probably do things thought impossible today.

As you say, Anything will be possible if you wait long enough for it to happen, all it takes is patience.

Man keeps assuming he is somehow outside science, but the evidence is we are the predictable interactions of physics laws.

Science is a belief system. It's dynamic and possibly infinite!

Exactly, we are nothing but a biochemical computer. Once we master the art of preserving this device we call a brain we will become immortal.

The million dollar question that we will all have to face in the future is though, is will we still be relevant enough to be useful in the future? With computers and robotics taking over a majority of the workforce will we still be useful?

I for one am not too sure about that myself. My father knows a great deal and so do I, but none of us have degrees or education that would be relative or worthy of ANY job in the future.

Heres hoping that planetary habitation isnt still limited to just one planet when we wake up, just one solar system would probably be still be too cramped

It could very well end up that we will become the intergalactic slave race of an alien species which requires cheap labor to mine out a planet. Or we could end up like that from our own planet's government. Either way once we wake up we had better be prepared for anything.

I am pro-cryogenics, but I am not silly, all throughout history there has been a need for cheap labor. So therefore I have come to terms with the idea of being artificially enhanced by wetware/nanobots, as far as I'm concerned it is probably necessary.

The whole idea of immortality to me is forever intertwined with the idea of "making the best of things", ie, not being too stressed out about not getting what you wanted out of life, even if this means to the point of getting depressed over it.

To me immortality is not about experiencing the bad, its about experiencing the mediocre and the good and the excellent. I love adrenaline, but the activities which you do today inorder to get an andrenaline rush are too risky for me to undertake them. (like skydiving), I would much rather wait for a time when there is inflatable backpacks and the capability of teleporters before I jump out of an airplane.

I do have myself to look after afterall.

Edited by Layberinthius, 23 August 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Julia36]

The million dollar question that we will all have to face in the future is though, is will we still be relevant enough to be useful in the future? With computers and robotics taking over a majority of the workforce will we still be useful?

Useful to whom?

Many species exist that are of no use to man.

The multiverse is thought to be infinite.
As Superintelligence comes (accelerating, self-improving) we may modify without reproduction, retaining individual rather than group identity.

Multiverse

[Layberinthius]

The million dollar question that we will all have to face in the future is though, is will we still be relevant enough to be useful in the future? With computers and robotics taking over a majority of the workforce will we still be useful?

Useful to whom?

Many species exist that are of no use to man.

And yet whales beach themselves for no apparent reason.
Species the world over are going extinct as a direct result of logging and pollution from factories.

Notice how fragile an ant's life is when you accidentally kill one? If we become obsolete that is us. That is if the commercial society is still active in future.

I actually hope that commercialism aside from bartering goes by the wayside, there is too much accumulation of wealth and abuse of power in todays system. Ontop of that there is an entire generation of humans telling me that my hippy lifestyle is impossible to achieve and downright immoral to not have a job. Yet they are polluting, waging wars, murdering. etc.

The multiverse is thought to be infinite.
As Superintelligence comes (accelerating, self-improving) we may modify without reproduction, retaining individual rather than group identity.

Multiverse

I dunno this planet earth is kinda interesting, I might become a creator of worlds or something. Exploring sure sounds interesting though. (Star Trekking)

[Akhil]

I am suffering from the same problem. The thought of losing my grandmother is killing me everyday. I will attempt suicide to go with her after she dies. What to do?

[Julia36]

Hope is stronger than Death.

If science speeds as some of us think, resurrection will start by about 2027.

Suicide is impossible. You must be immortal; when medical resurrection comes.

You have to be like iron to live.

Edited by Innocent, 26 August 2013 - 12:44 AM.