4019 replies to this topic

[Nattzor]

So I just sent him a mail with a link to this thread, some info and some other links. I actually have a vague of someone mailing him before, but hopefully he'll respond.

[Raisinthehouse]

Is there any consensus in regards to what led one should buy?

[Nattzor]

Is there any consensus in regards to what led one should buy?

Most people go with this one http://www.ebay.com/...=item1c38ac61df (or the like)
and some go with this one. http://www.ebay.com/...=item232c0ac99b

[cylack]

I guess it doesn't matter now, but he was the researcher I had mentioned earlier. I had emailed him about this thread and asked for dosing advice. He mentioned that its not proper for him to give such advice and its best to see the results of further clinical trials before actually using "homebrew" devices like ours.

So I just sent him a mail with a link to this thread, some info and some other links. I actually have a vague of someone mailing him before, but hopefully he'll respond.

A very nice summary article on foods that enhance mitochondrial function: http://californiaagr...41&fulltext=yes

[lostfalco]

I guess it doesn't matter now, but he was the researcher I had mentioned earlier. I had emailed him about this thread and asked for dosing advice. He mentioned that its not proper for him to give such advice and its best to see the results of further clinical trials before actually using "homebrew" devices like ours.

A very nice summary article on foods that enhance mitochondrial function: http://californiaagr...41&fulltext=yes

haha Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how he should answer.

Thanks for the article Cylack!

Edited by lostfalco, 27 March 2014 - 12:05 AM.

[lostfalco]

So I just sent him a mail with a link to this thread, some info and some other links. I actually have a vague of someone mailing him before, but hopefully he'll respond.

Hey Nattzor, if you're cool with it I think it'd be really interesting to message Michael Hamblin and ask him about the current status of the two women from the Naeser pilot study (he was a coauthor). One of them would almost be up to a decade of lasering if she's still going. Would be interesting to hear long term effects. If you don't have time, no worries.

Pretty interesting Read here.
http://journal.front...2014.00036/full

Thanks for the article Raisin! Very cool short summary by our boys at UT Austin.

Edited by lostfalco, 26 March 2014 - 11:57 PM.

[lostfalco]

Is there any consensus in regards to what led one should buy?

My recommendations are here. =) http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

[lostfalco]

Sweeet. Just started taking resistant starch myself. The hypothesis is interesting. Is there evidence that the gut epithelium expresses CREB and can produce BDNF (dumb question, not likely)? Or that enough Butyrate will be produced by gut microflora, enter gut epithelium, and enter the blood?

Ack, after searching google scholar the microflora-gut-brain axis is complex with multifactorial issues at play. Somehow there is an altered gene expression in the brain that may positively affect behavior. Don't have time for in depth research. I'll take it.

What's up Potent?

The hypothesis is that butyrate will enter the blood. Most articles indicate that around 70-80% of the butyrate produced is used as energy by the colon and that leaves 20-30% to be used elsewhere.

Neurobiologist Stephan Guyenet seems to think that it enters the blood but I'm still trying to figure out specifics. http://wholehealthso...troller-of.html

"Why does butyrate have so much control over inflammation? Let's think about where it comes from. Bacteria in the gut produce it. It's a source of energy, so our bodies take it up readily. It's one of the main molecules that passes from the symbiotic (helpful) bacteria in the gut to the rest of the body. Could it be that the body receives butyrate as a signal that there's a thriving colony of symbiotic bacteria in the gut, inducing immune tolerance to them? The body may alter its immune response (inflammation) in order to permit a mutually beneficial relationship between itself and its symbionts."

Edited by lostfalco, 27 March 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[swen]

I've combined CILTEP with Resistant Starch and after a while I experienced, what I i would describe as, low-serotin. What is pretty unusual for me. Is there a possible link between the two and effects on serotin?

[redtail]

Hi everyone,

I'm from Australia. I decided to register and post in this thread due to being more curious and wanting to be proactive with my body and of course my life.
There's so much information out there and on this thread that it's amazing!

Anyhow, I'd like to know how one would use LLLT. I've been thinking about the extremely economical 48 and 96 LED IR arrays you guys have listed links to as well as instructions on how to use a vetrolaser. It's too bad that I didn't find out about them before I forked out fot the vetro's! Anyway, the reason for the purchase is that I have a long term injury and I bought a 2nd hand vetrolaser set on ebay recently before coming onto the info here. they consisted of the 3 diode 808nm 200mw, 6 diode 650nm 5mw, and the single diode "acupuncture" laser, also 650nm 5mw.

I'm really really keen on knowing more on how to use it on my body. So far what I've done is use it like a roving wand, running it back and forth over parts of my body that are needing attention and also putting it on spots for extended times (2 mins each for small areas and 3 mins for dense areas eg hips). I've scheduled the lasers one day on, one day off.

I've read that some people apply it to their scalps or parts of the head for various cognitive or emotional effects. I'm curious about that but I'm also fearful of any effects that haven't been studied. understandably, from what I've read on this thread most people have used the LEDs which have a lower penetration power compared to a laser diode.

I'm not big on the nootropic supplements as some of you may be so I hope you can help me out with what I currently have at the moment.

In case you're wondering, I have a bilateral shoulder injury that is taking a very long time to get strong. I'm a former massage therapist and personal trainer and I'm currently doing a B.Science degree with a major in anatomy and psychology. So yes, I'm pretty good with anatomical and body therapy terms and techniques!

It is a pleasure to be posting here. = )

[Nattzor]

Hey Nattzor, if you're cool with it I think it'd be really interesting to message Michael Hamblin and ask him about the current status of the two women from the Naeser pilot study (he was a coauthor). One of them would almost be up to a decade of lasering if she's still going. Would be interesting to hear long term effects. If you don't have time, no worries.

Done! I just noticed that they will be around 70 years or so too, so hopefully they still go to the doctor regularly and we can get the info

I'll update of either responds.

[lostfalco]

Done! I just noticed that they will be around 70 years or so too, so hopefully they still go to the doctor regularly and we can get the info

I'll update of either responds.

Dude! Thanks Nattzor. I'm at about a year and three months now so I'm still quite a long way from the 5 to 6 year mark...but if her head exploded in year 7 seven then I'll probably stop. ha

[lostfalco]

I've combined CILTEP with Resistant Starch and after a while I experienced, what I i would describe as, low-serotin. What is pretty unusual for me. Is there a possible link between the two and effects on serotin?

Sorry about that Swen. I'm not really sure about low serotonin specifically, but it is possible that the starch made your previous CILTEP dose a little too strong. CILTEP increases transcription factors and the starch (possibly) makes DNA more open to transcription factors. The combo may have caused a bit of an overload...or it could be something TOTALLY different. =)

I know that for me, I almost view the feeding of my microbiome as a sort of reset button. It's so fundamental that I feel like everything downstream has to be reassessed and adjusted accordingly. Still learning though.

Edited by lostfalco, 27 March 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[lostfalco]

I just posted some of the tentative recommendations from my profile page on post number two of this thread. Those of you who are new to LLLT can check it out without having to join Longecity. I'll be making quite a few changes to it in the coming days...but it's a start. =)

http://www.longecity...ts/#entry582938

[DamnedOwl]

I've combined CILTEP with Resistant Starch and after a while I experienced, what I i would describe as, low-serotin. What is pretty unusual for me. Is there a possible link between the two and effects on serotin?

Sorry about that Swen. I'm not really sure about low serotonin specifically, but it is possible that the starch made your previous CILTEP dose a little too strong. CILTEP increases transcription factors and the starch (possibly) makes DNA more open to transcription factors. The combo may have caused a bit of an overload...or it could be something TOTALLY different. =)

I know that for me, I almost view the feeding of my microbiome as a sort of reset button. It's so fundamental that I feel like everything downstream has to be reassessed and adjusted accordingly. Still learning though.

Yep, I'll definitely go along with this.

I'm taking 80g of potato starch. I'm yet to find out how much of this is resistant starch - I'm still waiting to hear back from the people who make it (it's not the Bob's Red Mill brand). In any case I can certainly attest to some of the positive effects of taking that much potato starch. It's hard to be specific because it seems to be just a very general positive effect. More energy, clearer thinking, better concentration.

However, how many of these effects are purely down to the potato starch I can't really say because I've only achieved this state through not only taking the potato starch in the first place, but also stopping taking any racetams, as well as the Happy Stack. I stopped these because I felt the combination too strongly, i.e. they were too stimulating. I certainly wouldn't say this was the case before though, so in that regard at least I can say that potato starch seemed to amplify the effects of other substances I've been taking.

I very generally feel good though.

The only problem I'm encountering now is with sleep, and now this might sound odd, but I'm finding that I don't require as much sleep. Why would this be a problem for me? Well, perhaps it won't prove to be so, but it is strangely disquieting for me to be perfectly functional on 7 hours or less of sleep for day after day. I've always required at the very least 7.5 hours, and ideally between 8 and 8.5 hours. I keep expecting myself to start feeling the effects of a lack of sleep but it just doesn't come. I suppose it's kind of disquieting for me merely because being expectant of sleep puts me into a hyper-self-monitoring mode. I guess it'll pass though as my confidence in the changed requirements of my body grows.

[NeuroGeneration]

I keep expecting myself to start feeling the effects of a lack of sleep but it just doesn't come.

How long has it been, DamnedOwl? And does DamnedOwl have anything to do with your sleep habits? ;-)

Edited by NeuroGeneration, 27 March 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Nattzor]

So he responded to me and said I should contact Marney because it was her patient, only problem is that no author is named Marney. I assume it's Naeser, so I'll try her (atleast she's a female).

Anything you want me to write to Hamblin? Maybe about the same as to Gonzalez-Lima?

- 3x week, 6 weeks, a soldier who got injuried (TBI) 2009 could return in 2012 with that treatment, freaking awesome.

Edited by Nattzor, 27 March 2014 - 10:25 PM.

[DamnedOwl]

I keep expecting myself to start feeling the effects of a lack of sleep but it just doesn't come.

How long has it been, DamnedOwl? And does DamnedOwl have anything to do with your sleep habits? ;-)

Yes, the comment does require some qualification; I've been taking the potato starch for just over 5 weeks now, but only for the past 8 days have I been taking 80g a day and thus noticing the said effects. Previously I'd only been taking it at 40g a day, which seemed generally beneficial to my gut, but nothing else.

I know - seems far less noteworthy when I say that it's only been 8 days, and certainly the US military needn't go on red alert about it's potential just yet! Still, I can only reiterate how sensitive I have always been to sub-7.5 hour sleep duration. Getting only 7 hours sleep (or less) is something that I would unmistakably know about in terms of my general functioning and mood, so to go two days with only 7 hours sleep and still feel fine would be noteworthy alone, but 8 consecutive days is completely new ground for me.

Anyway, I suppose what I was mostly responding to was lostfalco's assertion that "...the feeding of my microbiome [is] a sort of reset button. It's so fundamental that I feel like everything downstream has to be reassessed and adjusted accordingly." That's definitely how it seems to me at the moment too - so much so that even what has been for me a life-long sleep requirement is all of a sudden far less 'required' than previously.

[swen]

I've combined CILTEP with Resistant Starch and after a while I experienced, what I i would describe as, low-serotin. What is pretty unusual for me. Is there a possible link between the two and effects on serotin?

Sorry about that Swen. I'm not really sure about low serotonin specifically, but it is possible that the starch made your previous CILTEP dose a little too strong. CILTEP increases transcription factors and the starch (possibly) makes DNA more open to transcription factors. The combo may have caused a bit of an overload...or it could be something TOTALLY different. =)

I know that for me, I almost view the feeding of my microbiome as a sort of reset button. It's so fundamental that I feel like everything downstream has to be reassessed and adjusted accordingly. Still learning though.

Thanks. I've stopped taking CILTEP, and will introduce it again after a few days but in a lower dose.

[Artificiality]

Well this thread has convinced me to start shooting a laser into my brain..
Not sure if I missed it, but did anyone supply a template of the different brain regions to use? So far
i'm planning on using this one:


I plan on starting with 30 or so seconds on each point. Any feedback on whether I should ignore some areas or just focus on certain ones?

[Godof Smallthings]

Do you have any particular issues you would like to correct?

[cylack]

I use the big 96 LED on both sides just above the ears, base of neck (cerebellar area), top of head, and forehead. I started out at 10 seconds each spot, and built up to 2 minutes per spot.
I use the 48 LED device for 30 seconds on each eye. I use both LED's on a M,W,F schedule.
I've not noticed any adverse effects, but at the same time I haven't noticed any great improvement in learning or memory. The only tangible effect I've noticed is better sleep since I do this at night just before sleep.
I am studying for the USMLE Step 1 medical board exam now where I have to memorize a ton of info, so I am able to directly see if my memory is improving or not (not just with the LED's but with all the supps I am taking).
I think you'd have to calibrate based on hair length and color of skin. I purposely got a buzz cut once I started doing this; I go longer than most with this because I've got dark skin. I'm wondering if even 2 minutes is too short of a time for my dark (South Indian) skin because I'm not noticing any great improvements in memory, and I've been doing this for a month now.

I also looked at the maps of the brain regions, but in practice without someone else's help it is not feasible to be placing the LED's on precise regions.

[Artificiality]

Do you have any particular issues you would like to correct?

Well the social benefits claimed are what really persuaded me to try it out, I'm not very charismatic to say the least and would like to improve there. Any improvement on motivation, confidence and energy would be welcome as well.

[Potent]

The hypothesis is that butyrate will enter the blood. Most articles indicate that around 70-80% of the butyrate produced is used as energy by the colon and that leaves 20-30% to be used elsewhere.

Neurobiologist Stephan Guyenet seems to think that it enters the blood but I'm still trying to figure out specifics. http://wholehealthso...troller-of.html

"Why does butyrate have so much control over inflammation? Let's think about where it comes from. Bacteria in the gut produce it. It's a source of energy, so our bodies take it up readily. It's one of the main molecules that passes from the symbiotic (helpful) bacteria in the gut to the rest of the body. Could it be that the body receives butyrate as a signal that there's a thriving colony of symbiotic bacteria in the gut, inducing immune tolerance to them? The body may alter its immune response (inflammation) in order to permit a mutually beneficial relationship between itself and its symbionts."

Excellent, I've spread the message on the Mr. Happy Stack Thread. I think the combination of Mr. Happy Stack induced synaptogenesis + increased BNDF from resistant starch could be a great combination.

Edited by Potent, 30 March 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[alpal]

Artificiality

for social benefits id much quicker suggest stacking curcumin, stablon, tilia tomentosa and dual n back.

[alpal]

After 18 hours of first dose of 80 grams (bleh) of potato starch my thoughts are.
Very powerful, but not in the ways I was expecting.
Most prevalent is the anti anxiety. I have never felt so calm in my life. When it kicked in at around 6 hours I thought this might be great for adhd kids.
I get much less distracted so I guess by extension my focus is better. It feels sort of like gaba and feels like it lowered my cortisol a ton.
but, I don't think it made me smarter... will keep experimenting.

My mom says potato starch is sometime mixed into baby milk to fatten em up... maybe there is a weight gain concern...

[Godof Smallthings]

Would potato flour work as a substitute? Difficult to find unmodified potato starch locally here.

[Raisinthehouse]

No it wouldn't.

[Adaptogen]

I think potato flour is made from cooked potatoes, whereas raw potatoes make the potato starch. Not only is the flour lacking in resistant starch, but it is also much more glycemic.

[swen]

After 18 hours of first dose of 80 grams (bleh) of potato starch my thoughts are.
Very powerful, but not in the ways I was expecting.
Most prevalent is the anti anxiety. I have never felt so calm in my life. When it kicked in at around 6 hours I thought this might be great for adhd kids.
I get much less distracted so I guess by extension my focus is better. It feels sort of like gaba and feels like it lowered my cortisol a ton.
but, I don't think it made me smarter... will keep experimenting.

My mom says potato starch is sometime mixed into baby milk to fatten em up... maybe there is a weight gain concern...

Did you take 80 grams at once? Just asking because most people take separate smaller doses

Also, about the weight concern: when the PS is cold there a no calories, it is indigestible by your stomach and will go straight to your intestines. When you heat it up (what sometimes happens with baby milk) it's a different story.