25 replies to this topic

[Ch!ggy]

Hi,

I am currently taking C60 in olive oil and about to start taking lithium Orotate . Could this be potentially dangerous ?

Thanks

Chiggy

[Turnbuckle]

I've taken lithium orotate twice a week for at least six months and C60 once a week or more for a year. No problem. In fact, the two should be synergistic since lithium promotes autophagy and clearance of defective mitochondria will improve cell function.

[Ch!ggy]

Great, thanks Turnbuckle

[mikeinnaples]

I take lithium orotate myself with C60. I take a bunch of other supps as well, but I haven't noticed any interactions period with them.

[blueinfinity]

I've heard lithium orotate can be dangerous in any amount if you dont have problems in your head (for lack of better words)

but then ive heard others saying 3-5 mg of lithium orotate is ok... why the differences in opinion

Is this something to take young, or wait, or everyone should be taking and why?

[Turnbuckle]

I've heard lithium orotate can be dangerous in any amount if you dont have problems in your head (for lack of better words)

but then ive heard others saying 3-5 mg of lithium orotate is ok... why the differences in opinion

Is this something to take young, or wait, or everyone should be taking and why?

People here are interested in it because of statements like the one below--

Low-dose lithium uptake promotes longevity in humans and metazoans



Results

In humans, we find here an inverse correlation between drinking water lithium concentrations and all-cause mortality in 18 neighboring Japanese municipalities with a total of 1,206,174 individuals (β = −0.661, p = 0.003). Consistently, we find that exposure to a comparably low concentration of lithium chloride extends life span of C. elegans (p = 0.047).

Conclusions

Taken together, these findings indicate that long-term low-dose exposure to lithium may exert anti-aging capabilities and unambiguously decreases mortality in evolutionary distinct species.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3151375/

[Ch!ggy]

Thanks Mike

[niner]

why the differences in opinion

Because some people don't know what they're talking about? I take a little over a milligram (elemental) a day, and I do combine it with c60-oo without problems. I wouldn't be surprised if lithium is eventually found to be essential, and an RDA is developed. I'd expect it to be about a milligram, but I'm not planning on waiting several decades for the IOM to catch up.

[daouda]

I was actually wondering wether C60 could potentially nullify the autophagy-promoting effect of lithium. It is known that antioxidants can block autophagy, at least antiox like vit E can impair trehalose-induced autophagy
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3463804/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2916709/
http://www.hdac.org/...ticleNumber=674
http://metamodern.co...ck-cell-repair/

I was actually thinking of alternating weeks or days on a "antioxidants /OR trehalose+lithium" basis . Problem is we don't really know the half-life of C60 in the human body.

[markymark]

I am using Li-orotate daily for years (4,8 mg elemental yield). Since starting out with C60-oo, no signs of interaction in a negative way. However difficult to discern with all the other supplements in my regimen.
mm

[Turnbuckle]

I was actually thinking of alternating weeks or days on a "antioxidants /OR trehalose+lithium" basis . Problem is we don't really know the half-life of C60 in the human body.

An excellent idea. I think the C60 rat experiment lucked out in picking a weekly dosing schedule. If they had done it every day, the results might not have been as dramatic.

[niner]

I was actually wondering wether C60 could potentially nullify the autophagy-promoting effect of lithium. It is known that antioxidants can block autophagy, at least antiox like vit E can impair trehalose-induced autophagy

I was actually thinking of alternating weeks or days on a "antioxidants /OR trehalose+lithium" basis . Problem is we don't really know the half-life of C60 in the human body.

I doubt that there will be a problem with respect to autophagy. The low doses of lithium that everyone is taking are nowhere near what would be needed to promote autophagy. I think we have a reasonable idea of c60-oo pharmacokinetics. There is relatively rapid clearance from plasma (t1/2 on the order of hours), followed by a very slow loss from membranes. Based on the rate with which suppression of muscle fatigue dropped off, I'd estimate the half life of the later phase to be 1-2 weeks. What we know less about are the threshold concentrations for the various effects of c60-oo, nor do we know how it interacts with endogenous antioxidants over a long time period. The threshold concentrations might change over time, if endogenous antioxidant levels are down-regulated.

I don't think that Baati's dosing schedule was particularly critical. The rats' membranes (and other lipid depots) would have been heavily loaded by that schedule, and any schedule that provided the same dose over that time period would have had roughly the same outcome. It likely took many months, if not years, for their supply of c60 to be exhausted. I don't think it's possible to cycle c60 on a weekly basis if you're getting an effective concentration.

[mustardseed41]

I've heard lithium orotate can be dangerous in any amount if you dont have problems in your head (for lack of better words)

but then ive heard others saying 3-5 mg of lithium orotate is ok... why the differences in opinion

Is this something to take young, or wait, or everyone should be taking and why?

Most confuse the 2 forms of lithium. Lithium Carbonate is the form that has some nasty side effects.
I take 15 mgs daily Lithium Orotate

http://rockcreekfree...9440581/lithium

Edited by mustardseed41, 10 May 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[niner]

Most confuse the 2 forms of lithium. Lithium Carbonate is the form that has some nasty side effects.
I take 15 mgs daily Lithium Orotate

It's not the form that matters, it's the dose. People who take it for bipolar disorder use hundreds of milligrams, while most of us are using 5 milligrams or less.

[Adamzski]

Is there any short ter effects that people have noticed from taking low dose Lithium?

[Ch!ggy]

I suffer from mood swings and since I have started taking lithium orotate I am a lot more levelled out now, it might be placebo however.

[Adamzski]

It is a really basic view of Lithium but my thoughts are that it could limit creativity in relatively normal people. I am prone to mania and I am very creative.

[niner]

It is a really basic view of Lithium but my thoughts are that it could limit creativity in relatively normal people. I am prone to mania and I am very creative.

I doubt that 5mg of lithium is going to do much here, much less the 1-2mg dose that a lot of us take. Psychiatric doses are like 300mg. On the other hand, it must be doing something if it's making people less likely to kill people or commit suicide, even at low doses. Somehow I don't think that depression and anger are conducive to creativity. Mania probably is, though, or at least hypomania.

[blueinfinity]

why the differences in opinion

Because some people don't know what they're talking about? I take a little over a milligram (elemental) a day, and I do combine it with c60-oo without problems. I wouldn't be surprised if lithium is eventually found to be essential, and an RDA is developed. I'd expect it to be about a milligram, but I'm not planning on waiting several decades for the IOM to catch up.

sure, I've heard/saw recommendations for 3-5g of elemental,

where do you get your lithium from? (source)

and does it come in milligram amounts or are you weighing yourself?

Is there any short ter effects that people have noticed from taking low dose Lithium?

I would also like to know... I thought i heard some stuff, but nothing solid comes to mind.

Edited by blueinfinity, 12 May 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[markymark]

In oder to get an overview about why taking low mg doses of lithium might be a reasonable measure in anti-aging, I recommend reading this two-part article by Dr. Wright.
http://tahomaclinicb...mineral-part-1/

[brainerd]

I just read that the increase in gray matter seen after taking Lithium might be because of a change in contrast in the magnetic resonance image. So the question if it works or not is still open I guess?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23158114

[niner]

sure, I've heard/saw recommendations for 3-5g of elemental,

where do you get your lithium from? (source)

and does it come in milligram amounts or are you weighing yourself?

3-5 GRAMS! Where did you find this, on a suicide how-to site? Lithium orotate is sold by many supplement vendors. I use the Doctors Best brand, which comes in 5mg tablets. I split them four ways with a pill splitter to get a dose of ~1-2mg.

[blueinfinity]

sure, I've heard/saw recommendations for 3-5g of elemental,

where do you get your lithium from? (source)

and does it come in milligram amounts or are you weighing yourself?

3-5 GRAMS! Where did you find this, on a suicide how-to site? Lithium orotate is sold by many supplement vendors. I use the Doctors Best brand, which comes in 5mg tablets. I split them four ways with a pill splitter to get a dose of ~1-2mg.

you are right, i meant to say MG not Grams,

what are the effects if any that you noticed, and is this recommended for everyone, Ive heard both sides before.

im 25 yr old male and in healthy state otherwise.

Good for prevention, any noticeable changes? how do you know when to stop?

[niner]

what are the effects if any that you noticed, and is this recommended for everyone, Ive heard both sides before.
im 25 yr old male and in healthy state otherwise.
Good for prevention, any noticeable changes? how do you know when to stop?

I notice nothing in particular. I've not tried to kill myself or anyone else since I started... I would recommend it for everyone. Who says that people shouldn't take one milligram of lithium? What's the evidence for their position?

It appears to be good for prevention of negative psychological outcomes in populations; You may or may not see anything in a single person- maybe in a gigantic study, but that's not likely to be run for a low cost nutrient. You could stop taking it if you move to an area with high lithium content in the water, assuming you're drinking the water, but a dose that low wouldn't hurt if you kept taking it. Otherwise, stop when you die.

[markymark]

may I second niner here... great post btw., comprising practical avice and humour.
for all who are interested in lithium, in addition to the two piece Wright article I linked-to earlier in this thread, check this out: http://www.ergo-log....mlongevity.html
mm

[Adamzski]

What is this here?
WHAT IS CLAIMED IS:
1. A method for stimulating hair growth in a human subject, comprising administering to a human subject in need thereof a treatment of (i) integumental perturbation by fractional laser: (ii) followed by a pulse of alithium composition that delivers an effective amount of lithium ions; (iii) followed by minoxidil and finasteride, wherein the treatment stimulates hair growth.


https://www.google.c...ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ

Could it be something I could try myself with a dermroller instead of a laser?