LONGECITY

Thanks for opening that thread.
What leads you to suspect that it may lead to Olney's Lesions? I have seen no evidence indicating that JDTic may do so..

Well it came to me when I smoked some Salvia today, I had and still have one of the biggest headaches I've ever had after use. I decided to look up the if it could be caused by salvia and it said about that savinorin A has some phenomenological similarities to dissociatives such as ketamine and PCP which went on to say that those dissociatives can cause brain damage called Olney's Lesions when taken in at high doses.

I know that Sally D and JDTic work in the opposite way, I was just wondering if it might still cause Olney's Lesions. :/ I guess I just got a bit worried that was all but I guess it's nothing to worry about.

Has anyone had any experience with Flesinoxan? Just wondering if it might be of any use.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Flesinoxan

No experience, but there are some very good results with both it and Eptapirone. There was one knockout study in particular that I can't find anymore. #2 on my list after JDTic.

Eptapirone: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9765347
Flesinoxan: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9169298
Befiradol: http://www.karger.co.../Fulltext/68404
Concept: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18692968

It is being synthed: "A chemical company in China has sent me 20 grams of eptapirone, which at a daily dose of 3mg should last me 20 yrs. I had to lay out $880 but you might be able to buy less, depends on the co."



Olney's Lesions are also known as NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity, so no.

Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

@veritatis: As mentioned in another thread, there are quite a few of us interested in JDTic.
Might you be offering it soon, or is there not enough interest yet? What are your thoughts? Thanks.

Agreed with formergenius, we're all really eager to try this stuff out, if you haven't got enough interest cannot you get the company to synthesis a smaller amount ? I mean, I'm sure I will buy a lot of this stuff if it actually works anyway. I just need to try it out first, and like any substance you need to try it out before it gains even more interest.

At the moment I can honestly say that a lot more people would be interested in this stuff if there were more trials, so why not get us to try this stuff out and put in a positive review for it, so we can tell are experiences with others to help promote this stuff ?

There are a lot of people interested on other forums, but they're unsure because of the low amount of human trials...

I noticed there is also interest in JDtic at socialanxietysupport.com. That may be a way to get more people for the groupbuy. Please comment.

I tried to start a bulk buy thread over there but they deleted it i think i mentioned it in a few posts there though.

I have a feeling your right to an extent but to what extent is the question. i'm sure there will be side effects i'm less sure about withdrawal because the kappa receptor is so different than the mu. Also both antagonists and agonists of the kappa receptor have been shown to attenuate withdrawal and addiction, so any homeostatic actions may not be as "heinous" as mu up/down regulation.

Trialling it is not for the faint of heart but for those of us who are willing to be the guinea pigs , the possibility of total remission of anxiety/depression/ocd/addiction is well worth the risk.

If there were another drug available online which hadn't been thoroughly pioneered i would be all over it.

Bpap is in the works (yadayada et al) but if itenhances natural release it would stand to reason it could just exacerbate already abnormal function

7,8 dihydroxyflavone looks promising in animals but anecdotal reports are less impressive

I think you guys are really playing with fire here. I've been through two psychotic breaks from self experimentation. The second one not so severe, just paranoia and delusions. However, JDTiC is another animal. I mean you will literally feel like you are dying after your opiod receptors recover. As for BPAP, I'm really pleased with the results. Nothing compares with it. Just makes life seem more fun. 7,8-dihydroxyflavone is in the works and 1kg will be ready in a month for testing. Just please be careful with this beast.

i agree it is dangerous to experiment with any relatively untested substance but it has been studied in humans without serious side effects..... for some people it's worth it, do you have any results posted for the bpap?

Also, could JDTic cause Olney's Lesions ?

no evidence to suggest it would

I think that kappa antagonists stand the best chance at abolishing DP and other dissociative disorders. Actually that's the primary reason why I want to use it. I'd say go ahead and inform DPSH.. I didn't because I'm not too sure how fond they would be of 'advertising' a research chemical on their site, but of all people, people with DP should be the most interested in this stuff.

It should be great for dp but it should also be good for pretty much every mental illness because it would target the core symptoms which seem to be a common thread through all of them, anhedonia and anxiety.

[

I noticed there is also interest in JDtic at socialanxietysupport.com. That may be a way to get more people for the groupbuy. Please comment.

Wait, so ibogaine and salvia are kappa agonists right? But are you sure it was the kappa antagonism of Suboxone that helped, and not the mu-agonism?

From a simplistic perspective, I thought kappa antagonism helped regulate the reward-system and that improved hedonic tone could increase obsessions/compulsions, but who knows .. it's too hard to read right now with akathisia anyway, but I found this which suggests low activity in the nucleus accumbens, particularly in contamination phobias: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21272861 .. which is interesting, because I thought high dopamine in the Nacc was implicated in OCD .. but maybe it's just disordered dopamine, and a kappa-antagonist could normalize it?

Then again, dexamphetamine is recommended as monotherapy for OCD and increases dopamine in the Nacc while doing other stuff like modulating glutamate.

My biggest problem, other than the obsessions, is the intense sense of fear that accompanies them.. the overwhelming freefloating anxiety makes even walking up the road to the store a tremendous battle; I am plagued by a constant sensation that something awful is going to happen 24/7 and it *feels* real. I know what reduced fear feels like because on e.g. stimulants the obsessions are still there, but suddenly they don't stress me/phase me so much and I can face them. But no medication has really touched the core hypervigilance and fear, even SSRIs. I'm hoping that even if JDTic doesn't help the obsessions very much, it could remove the phobia and physical restrictions on my life.

I also have a lot of shitty personality-related compulsions/addiction .. like compulsively doing stuff to get attention all the time, even in subtle ways, to fill my inner 'emptiness'. I'm not sure whether they come from .. some interplay between ADD, narcissism and that dysthmic/schizoid-emptiness that has never let me feel close to people. I hope the JDTic can influence that too.

Oh -- and when I say JDTic, I'm just using that as easy shorthand for kappa-antagonism. Since I'm in a pretty desperate situation, I'm going to be buying Suboxone and combining it with LDN a la celebes to see if kappa-antagonism is a worthwhile road for me to go down.

Yeah i think low dopamine and high glutamate in the nacc are found in ocd....dexedrine, like other ampetamines and stimulants do work well for ocd but can exacerbate it... i.e skin picking, repetitive ritualistic behavior, irrational phobias etc are all symptoms of stimulant psychosis and to a lesser extent even after a single dose etc....

Glutamate levels are increased in response to increased dopamine because as drive increases so does the need for celular excitation...glutamate acts like a throttle on neurotransmission, it's an oversimplification but if dopamine levels are high, glutamate acts supportively to that state but it works both ways. When the levels are low, it amplifies that too.

With dexedrine for example, as the drug wears off and dopamine levels drop, the glutamate levels stay high a while which explains the ocd like comedown symptoms. the emptiness of the dopamine receptors is being amplified by the glutamate so the body tries to remedy this with rituals and repitition in attempt to recreate a response which have worked before....

For example popping pimples or picking scabs, checking that your environment is safe The body, like a computer, runs through sequences over and over desperately to illicit an increase in dopamine to no avail because dopamine stores have been used up. So you check if the door's locked but the feeling of safety you usually get isn't there because the dopamine isn't there so you try again...then it tries another one etc

I don't know why they call it ocd, obsessions and compulsions are really the same thing. obsessing about something is just feeling compelled to give it your attention...but anyway it's really just that comfort seeking gets put much higher on the priority list because discomfort(empty dop receptors) is being amplified by glutamate.

In a natural situation(not drug induced) depression dampens dopamine response to pleasurable activities and fear increases glutamate levels creating this dysregulation between dopamine and glutamate. the severity etc varies respectively. It's a self perpetuating. self supportive function which is why it's so hard to reverse.

Like i say though this is a massive oversimplification i would imagine that almost every chemical and functional component in the body is invloved to some extent in all maladies but i digress...

Jdtic, as opposed to amphetamine, increases dopamine by inhibiting dynorphan which in turn fails to inhibit dopamine. So rather than just generally promoting the release of dopamine(which is unsustainable), it just allows it to act naturally as if there were no aversive signal recieved.

This is interesting:

These data suggest that although KOR antagonists may be able to reverse reductions in DA caused by increased KOR tone, they have a limited ability to enhance DA function to the degree that would make the drugs rewarding. In addition, these results suggest that KOR antagonists would not be likely to produce mania-like states, a problem seen with stimulants and, sometimes, with standard antidepressants.

I wonder how JDTic effects sleep. I know that after I smoke some Salvia I get Hypnic jerks when I try to sleep. Although, if JDTic doesn't effect blood pressure everything should be fine right?

My best bet is that it would improve sleep. No clue if it would affect BP, but mine can use some heightening anyway.

@somethingtropic Might Ceretropic be interested in pioneering JDTic?

My best bet is that it would improve sleep. No clue if it would affect BP, but mine can use some heightening anyway.

@somethingtropic Might Ceretropic be interested in pioneering JDTic?

Thanks for the insight. According to the studies it doesn't but if that's the case what was all that about the heart issues. Oh well, I'm just going to try it and hope for the best. What's the worst that could happen ? JDTic with some Alpha brain will go down nicely, although I haven't really tried alpha brain so I cannot say if it's any good, but reviews look promising.

It should be great for dp but it should also be good for pretty much every mental illness because it would target the core symptoms which seem to be a common thread through all of them, anhedonia and anxiety.

my only concern is whether it would do much of anything for ADD .. kappa-antagonism is somehow implicated in regulating dopamine flow to the pfc I think (?), but would it be enough stimulation for an inattentive?

Dopamine levels are high, glutamate acts supportively to that state but it works both ways. When the levels are low, it amplifies that too.

With dexedrine for example, as the drug wears off and dopamine levels drop, the glutamate levels stay high a while which explains the ocd like comedown symptoms. the emptiness of the dopamine receptors is being amplified by the glutamate so the body tries to remedy this with rituals and repitition in attempt to recreate a response which have worked before....

Thanks for this .. I'd actually been thinking about what happens during Dexedrine withdrawal .. I don't have much experience with psychedelics and the like, but nothing has ever really created the intense sensation of fear/panic and rumination as Dexedrine withdrawal, at least during the first day.

I really really need some of this right now. Just started my apprenticeship and it's so dull. On the way back I was on the bus and had that one ass comment about my dress sense. Then, some other prick decided to make fun out of it was well. I don't see the big deal in wearing a suit... I mean, the apprenticeship was dull as it is, then to top things of some pricks on the way home start.

I had and still have butterfly's, I hate my life so much right now and feel like it isn't going to change. I just feel like crying and feel so weak minded. I keep trying to tell myself to have a strong mind and to not let anyone get me down but I just feel so shite and empty. I don't know what to do anymore, because right now life is pretty pointless. I'm crap with relationships and feel like I'm not going to get anywhere in life, I always feel like I'm being judged. I feel terrible. Suicide thoughts? Yes. Am I strong enough not to do it at this stage? Just about. I'm sorry, I needed to get that off my chest. The world just feels so bitter.

I really really need some of this right now. Just started my apprenticeship and it's so dull. On the way back I was on the bus and had that one ass comment about my dress sense. Then, some other prick decided to make fun out of it was well. I don't see the big deal in wearing a suit... I mean, the apprenticeship was dull as it is, then to top things of some pricks on the way home start.

I had and still have butterfly's, I hate my life so much right now and feel like it isn't going to change. I just feel like crying and feel so weak minded. I keep trying to tell myself to have a strong mind and to not let anyone get me down but I just feel so shite and empty. I don't know what to do anymore, because right now life is pretty pointless. I'm crap with relationships and feel like I'm not going to get anywhere in life, I always feel like I'm being judged. I feel terrible. Suicide thoughts? Yes. Am I strong enough not to do it at this stage? Just about. I'm sorry, I needed to get that off my chest. The world just feels so bitter.

Hi KieranA001,

I am very sorry to read you are feeling the way you do. I dont know the words wich with i could offer you some comfort.
I do hope you can find the courage and strength to give the future a change.

Best regards,

hzwe

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that feels emotionally weak and pessimistic towards life. It really gets you down and makes you feel alone like you're the only one that feels that way. Being emotionally strong is so hard, and it's worse because I see everyone just abusing their life and other people which makes me feel worse and makes me associate my pain with the other person that's getting abused or something.

I think we all need this stuff badly, so let's hope someone can support the buy. Hope all of you guys are doing well yourselves. It's strange because although I don't know any of you, I feel pretty happy and confident talking to you guys as we're all going through the same thing so we can all relate. We all just have to stay strong, easier said then done I know!

does anyone know if Kappa Antagonism has any inhibitory effects, in addition to boosting DA/NE? wondering how it would affect sx. of agitation, mood instability etc.

Hey guys,

Just letting you all know that Veritatis said that he's going to get in touch with his lab tonight to synthesize some JDTic. Can all of you make sure to get as many people as possible into this group buy so we can get this stuff ASAP! I know lots of you guys will be interested in this stuff if you want to be Anxiety/Depression free and to improve upon your lives.

Get the message out! Tag people who might be interested... Etc.

Cheers
Kieran
Edited by KieranA001, 19 December 2013 - 09:11 AM.

This calls for celebration! Awesome!
Edited by formergenius, 19 December 2013 - 02:39 PM.

Yeah, just out of interest who do we know so far who wants this stuff? Just to get an estimate for veritatis
I know I'll be buying two grams, depending on price. For that matter I have no idea how much this stuff will cost ? I will probably buy a couple of grams.

The more grams we buy the quicker we get this stuff!!!

We have 16-17 people interested. Once we get a price estimate, I'm sure it'll be easier to gauge. I have a 200 euro budget myself, plus I'd need to know that veritatis' first group buy has confirmed to be legitimate. I'm grateful that someone has finally taken upon themselves to coordinate this. That said, it is still paramount to know that nobody is being scammed (not making any accusations, just precautions).

Maybe crossposting to /r/Nootropics to recruit more participants is an idea, though I'm not sure if that would be appreciated.

Thanks for the insight. If he could email someone with a price estimate that would be good. I wonder when his account will get unsuspended :/ I think he's a legitimate seller he just doesn't want to end up with a load of stuff that he doesn't want which would be a waste of money. I was wondering, couldn't we just invite people from a previous NSI-189 group buy to see if they would be interested again ?

Good points. I'm not sure what you mean.. I don't see how NSI-189 buyers would be interested in JDTic. Unless you mean to recruit people from a previous NSI group buy to complete veritatis' current NSI group buy, to speed up confirmation of legitimacy, and ultimately speed up the JDTic group buy. The latter sounds like quite the hassle, possibly in the ballpark of harassment.

Think the best move for now is to just wait a bit longer.
Cheers.

Okay we will wait a bit longer then. It would also be nice to know how much they are going to synth for veritatis. If we know that then we will know how many people to inform. And yeah I did mean to complete the current NSI group buy but like you said I guess that would be harassment.
Edited by KieranA001, 19 December 2013 - 07:12 PM.

good news, hopefully this pans out!

Add me to the list of people interested in this group buy.

Veritatis' ban should be lifted by now. Any updates?

Well, I've had no updates from him by Email and I emailed him three days ago. Looks like it has gone dead... With both NSI-189 and JDTic. :/ Unless he's on holiday or something, in which I highly doubt he would not reply.

Whats the deal with amentoflavone? Its a antagonist of the k opiod receptor aswel, is it safe?

What about posting a request to Alibaba? Generally those companies don't seem to bother with whether you've official credentials or not. Quality/purity/authenticity might be questionable then though, but we could always have it tested by a 3rd party.

Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

I'm confused about something. As I understand Salvia works as a kappa opioid agonist and apparently taking an agonist chronically would downregulate the kappa opioid receptors. JDTIC however is an antagonist so wouldn't the receptors upregulate in the long run?