24 replies to this topic

[yuriythebest]

A very basic question - to those that have several bottles or more of this stuff - do you refrigirate it or simply keep it at room temperature in a dark/cool place somewhere?

[Turnbuckle]

I keep a couple of liters frozen, and a small dosing bottle that I defrost once a week. That small bottle has gone through a dozen freeze/thaw cycles with no change in the appearance of the oil. Refrigeration without freezing produces separation of the oil over time, but that may be entirely cosmetic.

[niner]

Didn't we see something a few months back that said freeze-thaw cycles were bad for olive oil? As I recall, they actually induced some form of degradation. It wasn't so bad that you shouldn't freeze for long term storage, but frequent freeze thaws might not be so good. I do various things depending on when I'm going to use oil and how much space I have in the freezer, both for c60-oo and plain evoo. I like the idea of freezing for long term storage, but I also use cool dark non-frozen storage. I always keep the bottle that I'm currently using unfrozen, but I try to have that not be a real large bottle.

[Turnbuckle]

Didn't we see something a few months back that said freeze-thaw cycles were bad for olive oil? As I recall, they actually induced some form of degradation.

I didn't see that, but there is no visible degradation that I have seen. On the other hand, refrigeration at a temperature above freezing does produce some irreversible changes. The tendency is for the oil to separate faster next time around. So if you allowed frozen oil to thaw slowly in the refrigerator, that would have the same problem.

[zen]

Didn't we see something a few months back that said freeze-thaw cycles were bad for olive oil? As I recall, they actually induced some form of degradation. It wasn't so bad that you shouldn't freeze for long term storage, but frequent freeze thaws might not be so good. I do various things depending on when I'm going to use oil and how much space I have in the freezer, both for c60-oo and plain evoo. I like the idea of freezing for long term storage, but I also use cool dark non-frozen storage. I always keep the bottle that I'm currently using unfrozen, but I try to have that not be a real large bottle.

I think it is better to keep it frozen in a number of small bottles to avoid freeze-thaw cycles. I found these http://www.amazon.co...d_sim_sbs_hpc_1 to be the right size for my needs.

[niner]

Didn't we see something a few months back that said freeze-thaw cycles were bad for olive oil? As I recall, they actually induced some form of degradation.

I didn't see that, but there is no visible degradation that I have seen. On the other hand, refrigeration at a temperature above freezing does produce some irreversible changes. The tendency is for the oil to separate faster next time around. So if you allowed frozen oil to thaw slowly in the refrigerator, that would have the same problem.

Here, I found the original post.

[tintinet]

I mix up a large batch (1.5 L) at a time and just keep it in a relatively cool dark place (my pantry) until it's gone (months). I've never frozen or refrigerated it.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

I also use dark non-frozen storage. In my lab which is 68F. I store in dark container in a dark drawer and poor small batches into the smaller bottle with a dropper. But my EVOO has some things added that perhaps you guys might not approve of. A small amount of BHT and astaxanthin.

[JohnD60]

dark, room temperature

[maxwatt]

I only mix up enough for a month at a time, don't refrigerate.

[stephen_b]

No, I just keep 750 ml in a cool place.

[Haje]

But what is the best to do? and is the pure c60 better of frozen , cool or just room temperature, or is it better to preserve in the oil?

[niner]

But what is the best to do?

Work in a glove box under an argon atmosphere. Do this in the dark while wearing night vision goggles. Sparge the oil with argon, synthesize the adduct. Store the product in the dark at 4.22K under liquid helium.

Or you could do what those other guys are doing...

[mikeinnaples]

I keep one 500ml bottle out for use, stored in a dark place. My other two bottles are currently frozen.

[Haje]

@niner hahaha nice one :P

[niner]

is the pure c60 better of frozen , cool or just room temperature, or is it better to preserve in the oil?

It's almost always better to store chemicals in the dry solid form. I would store C60 in the original container it was shipped in, assuming that's air and water tight. I'd keep it in the dark at a cool or cold temperature.

[Lister]

I've gone 6 months without refrigeration. Sarah Vaughter seems to think the C60 will extend the life of the OO out a year beyond normal expiration date due to the Anti-Oxidant effects. I’m not so sure about that claim but I didn’t notice any changes in the OO after the 6^th month had past. Perhaps that's a good sign towards it's longevity effects?

[8bitmore]

I've gone 6 months without refrigeration. Sarah Vaughter seems to think the C60 will extend the life of the OO out a year beyond normal expiration date due to the Anti-Oxidant effects. I’m not so sure about that claim but I didn’t notice any changes in the OO after the 6^th month had past. Perhaps that's a good sign towards it's longevity effects?

6+ months without refrigeration here too (stored in coldish dark cupboard), no perceptible change in strong clear OO odour whereas the non-C60'ed OO oil smelt rancid/old - there's no doubt that the C60 stabilizes the oil in my experience.

[Turnbuckle]

I've gone 6 months without refrigeration. Sarah Vaughter seems to think the C60 will extend the life of the OO out a year beyond normal expiration date due to the Anti-Oxidant effects. I’m not so sure about that claim but I didn’t notice any changes in the OO after the 6^th month had past. Perhaps that's a good sign towards it's longevity effects?

6+ months without refrigeration here too (stored in coldish dark cupboard), no perceptible change in strong clear OO odour whereas the non-C60'ed OO oil smelt rancid/old - there's no doubt that the C60 stabilizes the oil in my experience.

While a fullerene antioxidant may increase the lifetime of the oil, what is happening to the antioxidant in the meantime? Certainly it is oxidizing and is thus morphing into something different than it was at first. But is that good, bad, or indifferent?

Unsaturated lipids when exposed to air at room temperature undergo a slow autoxidation. When fullerene C60 was dissolved in selected lipids (ethyl oleate, ethyl linoleate, linseed oil and castor oil) the spectrophotometric analysis shows that the oxidation is concentrated to C60 which is converted to an epoxide C60O. Thus, fullerene C60 displays antioxidant activity not only when dissolved in unsaturated lipids but also, more generally, when dissolved in unsaturated solvents subjected to autoxidation like, for example, in cyclohexene.

http://www.sciencedi...009308410000496

So I would expect that its value as an antioxidant in the body would be reduced the longer it is stored, and that this reduction would occur much faster at room temperature, even if you can't see or smell any difference.

[8bitmore]

I've gone 6 months without refrigeration. Sarah Vaughter seems to think the C60 will extend the life of the OO out a year beyond normal expiration date due to the Anti-Oxidant effects. I’m not so sure about that claim but I didn’t notice any changes in the OO after the 6^th month had past. Perhaps that's a good sign towards it's longevity effects?

6+ months without refrigeration here too (stored in coldish dark cupboard), no perceptible change in strong clear OO odour whereas the non-C60'ed OO oil smelt rancid/old - there's no doubt that the C60 stabilizes the oil in my experience.

While a fullerene antioxidant may increase the lifetime of the oil, what is happening to the antioxidant in the meantime? Certainly it is oxidizing and is thus morphing into something different than it was at first. But is that good, bad, or indifferent?

Unsaturated lipids when exposed to air at room temperature undergo a slow autoxidation. When fullerene C60 was dissolved in selected lipids (ethyl oleate, ethyl linoleate, linseed oil and castor oil) the spectrophotometric analysis shows that the oxidation is concentrated to C60 which is converted to an epoxide C60O. Thus, fullerene C60 displays antioxidant activity not only when dissolved in unsaturated lipids but also, more generally, when dissolved in unsaturated solvents subjected to autoxidation like, for example, in cyclohexene.

http://www.sciencedi...009308410000496

So I would expect that its value as an antioxidant in the body would be reduced the longer it is stored, and that this reduction would occur much faster at room temperature, even if you can't see or smell any difference.

Good point thanks - my C60OO has migrated to the fridge for now (since it takes me at least 6 months to go through a homemade-batch with my current usage scenario)

[Autodidact]

I too am concerned about the potential decrease in effectiveness and consistency due to lack of protection from ambient heat.

My first order of c60oo is getting ping-ponged around the various local sorting centers in the Summer heat for the past week or so. It almost arrived today, but somehow it ended up accidentally getting bounced back to another sorting station. After trying to intercept the package at my local post office proved fruitless, I contacted Sarah Vaughter, who I bought the c60oo from, along with some topical anti-fungals via email explaining the situation and requesting a partial refund, where I would return the product, unless it was shipped with a cold-pac or some equivalent. I expected a simple yes or no response, yet was completely dumbfounded by her response. She immediately accused me of fraud, and then went on to explain the ways in which she would ruin my identity! I responded that I would take legal action if she posted my information online. She explained over the course of 23 separate emails how she was going to forever ruin my life if I tried to take recourse over her posting my private information online simply for requesting a refund via email!!!!!!!!! I repeatedly asked her to stop harassing me and threatening me. Instead she searched the interwebz for an image of me, posted it to c60antiaging.com along with my name and address and a long-winded defamatory statement! She then blackmailed me saying she would only take down my information, along with and her defamatory statements if I sent her a handwritten letter saying that I wouldn't report her to any US regulatory agency for defaming me. The best part is she managed to do all of this over the span of 10 hours, TODAY. While I was at work.

Why? What the hell did I do? I asked her for a partial refund and she's deliberately trying to ruin my life!!!!!!!!!!!

I see that some other users have had issues of some kind with this company. Mold? Questionable color? Pages of flame wars between her and the guy from RevGenetics?


Ummm, What the Fuuuu...

I have all of the time-stamped emails corroborating my story for those who are interested.
-Auto

Edited by Autodidact, 08 September 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Autodidact]

My email to Sarah:
Hi Sarah -

I have been tracking my c60 purchase as it is the height of summer in the US. My order, already sitting at ISC over the long hot holiday weekend with no climate controls, arrived today at my local post office prior to it being given to my carrier and dropped at my house. For some reason, they sent it back to the sorting hub, so now it will be sitting in the heat again for another 48 - 50 hours. As olive oil has extremely high levels of PUFA's, it is therefore particularly sensitive to lipid peroxidation which is exacerbated under conditions of prolonged heat.

I now do not feel comfortable using this c60oo solution as its activity has been compromised due to poor materials handling protocols and shipping procedures (unless it is shipped cooled), as I do not wish to carry lipid peroxides across the BBB or into the mitochondria of the test subject. I request a refund and I am willing to not be in receipt of the package, and have it returned to you for your own consumption. I have already spent too much time and money trying to get a hold of c60oo from Europe as a US citizen.

Thank You,

Nick

Her response:

Hi Nick,

The Baathi study mentions that C60 is a powerful inhibitor of lipid peroxidation and that that is why their 6 year old batch was not oxidized (and not refrigerated all that time).

That is why we feel that you have no valid claim, and as such we will treat this case as fraud.

Our T&C state that you allow us to submit your details public to fraud databases and our own website

I think it is outrageous that you excpct the product to be sent refrigerated from Europe for that price, or that you expect miraculously fast transit times, in spite of the fact that we warn that USPS is slow.

You behavior is even less understandable in light of the fact that there are US vendors for the product.

Hence, if you make any claim against us, as per our T&C you signed when you made the order, we reserve the right to publish your data anywhere we choose, now and in the future, in databases such as badbuyerlist.


Best regards,
Sarah
----

Edited by Autodidact, 08 September 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Autodidact]

From Sarah Vaughter's Terms and Conditions:

"Order disputes - we are very easy with refunds but we don't tolerate fraud
The customer agrees to always to discuss any dissatisfaction with their order with us before they file a dispute with our payment provider or card issuer. Because we are very easy with granting refunds for any imaginable legitimate reason we absolutely do not tolerate any kind of chargebacks or payment disputes, not even when the customer truly thinks they have been wronged or even when it was a mistake on their part, because the result is the same to us - we lose the money and are penalised.
(1) Our money back guarantee in case of non-delivery, damage, missing items etc. makes us define "fraud" as filing any type of chargeback or a payment dispute with our payment processor or the customer's bank. All order issues should be taken up with us, and us alone. Our judgment in the case is final. In case we can not prove that we have no liability we believe the customer on their word and always refund.
Since we always refund and always believe the customer at their word, there is absolutely never any reason to cause us extra financial damage by filing a payment dispute or charegeback. Therefore, in cases where we think we can prove that we are in the right and the customer is wrong, we will publicly expose the fraudulent actions of the customer"

Yeah right, Sarah Vaughter, you nutcase. I followed your terms and conditions, and you are attempting to ruin my identity! I NEVER once said I filed a dispute or a chargeback; I simply requested a refund by email, as per your terms and conditions. When you responded with immediate threats to my character and identity (after failing to uphold YOUR END end of your OWN terms and conditions), I let you know that I was going to take legal action, as I take threats seriously, as I should, because you posted lies about me on your website. Then you attempt to blackmail me A PAYING CUSTOMER!

Takeway Lessons for Longecity: Know your sources. Trust your sources. Greed is rampant. Healthcare and business are poor bedfellows. If you order c60oo from owndoc.com or Sarah Vaughter, you risk ruining your identity if you so much as email her with any valid concerns regarding your purchase.

Auto

Edited by Autodidact, 08 September 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

My email to Sarah:
Hi Sarah -

I have been tracking my c60 purchase as it is the height of summer in the US. My order, already sitting at ISC over the long hot holiday weekend with no climate controls, arrived today at my local post office prior to it being given to my carrier and dropped at my house. For some reason, they sent it back to the sorting hub, so now it will be sitting in the heat again for another 48 - 50 hours. As olive oil has extremely high levels of PUFA's, it is therefore particularly sensitive to lipid peroxidation which is exacerbated under conditions of prolonged heat.

I now do not feel comfortable using this c60oo solution as its activity has been compromised due to poor materials handling protocols and shipping procedures (unless it is shipped cooled), as I do not wish to carry lipid peroxides across the BBB or into the mitochondria of the test subject. I request a refund and I am willing to not be in receipt of the package, and have it returned to you for your own consumption. I have already spent too much time and money trying to get a hold of c60oo from Europe as a US citizen.

The oil will age faster--2x for every 10 C of temperature is the typical rate for chemical reactions--but that shouldn't be a problem for a few days. So I can see why she rejected your request. In the future you should get it from the US. Here's a source--

http://www.carbon60oliveoil.com/

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 September 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Autodidact]

Thanks Turnbuckle. I think this whole thing was a communication breakdown of some kind between us anyhow. I'd like to rescind my prior posts.