11 replies to this topic

[ironfistx]

Seems like you can pick one or the other, right?

Weight lifting and especially bodybuilding requires a surplus of calories, especially for naturally skinny people.

[YOLF]

You should check out lean gains. They use intermittent fasting to pack on muscle. But they aren't doing Calorie Restriction 24/7. CR is bad for primate lifespan anyways.
http://www.leangains.com/

[ironfistx]

I recently saw a documentary that talked about 3 different types of CR:

1) 3.5 days fasting every few months, eating only like 100 calories a day on the fast days.

2) one on one off, eating 500-600 calories on the fast days, eating as much as you want on the other days

3) 2 non-consecutive fast days every week, eating 500-600 calories on the fast days, no limits on the normal days

But I think if someone wanted to do CR every day, bodybuilding would not be an option for them.

Where did you get your data that CR is bad for primates' life span?

Edited by ironfistx, 04 June 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[YOLF]

It was in a topic here about spindler's rat studies.

Here's a related article:
http://www.nature.co...ong-run-1.11297

[Daylen]

So are they mutually exclusive or not? Moreover: if the theory behind CR is right, wouldn't bodybuilding actually shorten life expectancy? This could be by a number of mechanisms, including increased IGF-1.

[YOLF]

FGF21 is the most interesting CR hormone, It's known as the starvation hormone and might mean alot to us as it can allow one to eat a high fat diet and still live longer. Bodybuilding won't shorten your life. Only unheathly eating has been shown to shorten primate lifespan. Eat healthy to live longer.

You can fast intermittently during which time your body would produce the CR chemistry. It looks to me like you could benefit from both CR and weight training if you did it as intermittent fasting. I would even go as far as to assume that it would be healthier than either by itself.

So are they mutually exclusive or not? Moreover: if the theory behind CR is right, wouldn't bodybuilding actually shorten life expectancy? This could be by a number of mechanisms, including increased IGF-1.

CR doesn't appear to be right in primates, though it may improve metabolism, it won't do much more. The only benefits reaped in primates were due to bad diet and the CR group eating less of the bad stuff. Monkeys eat mainly fruit, pounds of it a day! You

[clean_press]

I'll just chime in on this topic, I'm def not an avid lifter in that I don't put a ton of time in at the gym. I would estimate that that my total time under tension ( the seconds and minutes when you are actually putting up weight ) is under an hour a week. Now I don't really measure my caloric intake but I regularly do what might be called a partial fast for the first 8-9 hours upon awaking. I'll have a couple of banana's , blueberries other fruits etc etc and plenty of water. I start eating at about 5-6pm and then I pretty much let myself eat as much as I want, so this isn't really caloric restriction cause I'm sure I'm hitting 2500-3500 calories a day. This approach has no negative effect on working out, but again I'm not putting in traditional workouts that for most people last 45-60 mins. I'll workout for 5-10 mins once or twice a day for 5 or 6 days, I'll do a more formal full body workout on the 7th day that lasts 90 mins ( weekend ). This works for me since I'm really interested putting on a ton of muscle rather I just want my nervous system to be adequately handle significant resistance. As far as Cardio same thing I'll put a good 1 hour weighted hike once a week and leave it at that, I have to walk a ton around the hospital so I don't bother with any running or anything like low intensity aerobics. On a bad day I can dead 405 pretty easily, squat 275-335 depending on how tired I am, clean -225. Mili-Press 185. So I think you can make decent progress in strength training even on what are considered non-optimal eating patterns according to the eat 8000 times a day BB approach. I get headaches and become tired if I eat too much early in the day that's why I don't do it not cause I'm trying to discipline myself. I eat a shitload of fruit throughout the day which I guess isn't that great for you but I don't care lol I like it. In the evening its high fat, high protein, a lotta carbs ( white rice ) ( white pasta much less often ). I have IBD so I can't tolerate certain kinds of fiber esp wheat, brown rice etc. I do eat an ok amount of green veggies not as much as I should tho.

[DR01D]

An adult male can pack on about 5 pounds of muscle per year. Unless he's on the juice that's about it.

The same man on CR is going to pack on less muscle. However that number won't be 0.

The body needs a small surplus of calories, maybe 200 or 300 to build muscle.

As far as protein is concerned don't worry about it. Unless you're on an all fruit diet you eat enough protein to build muscle.

[DR01D]

It takes hard work and dedication to pack on 5 pounds of muscle in a year. However almost anyone can EASILY pack on 100 pounds of fat in a year.

That tells us a lot about the physiology of the human body.

If there is an obesity gene, we all have it.

Edited by DR01D, 07 June 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[Saintor]

I have been practicing CR for 4-5 years now. The best strategy IMO is to increase the intake of calories to compensate for that extra activities. The idea is to maintain a deficit, not necessarily to enlarge it.

I am a recent subscriber to a gym and can't believe all the benefits after only a few weeks. For one year I have been cycling 30-45 mintues 5-6 times a week so my shape was not bad; my maximum heart frequency is surprising high for my age at 204 bpm (that's teenager level, so is my blood pressure). I am now an advocate in resistance training, the main reason is because I feel that my vitality or level of energy dramatically increased. Gym is a way but there are others; just don't confuse it with a cardio activity (it has to be intense for a short amount of time).

For 2-3 years I had pain in my arms and that seemed to be some kind of arteriosclerosis due to my age (46). * Gone *.

Edited by Saintor, 02 September 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[scottknl]

It seems to be quite different between the ladies and the gents on CR. The gents can look like male swim suit models in some cases as long as the CR isn't too severe. Unfortunately, the ladies don't seem retain the fat in all the right places, so it impacts the way they look. Both get great benefits from a bio-markers perspective, but the guys just look more like the ideal image. IMO

[tunt01]

CR is bad for primate lifespan anyways.

I'd be cautious with that conclusion.


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