17 replies to this topic

[bob12]

After my parents death at a fairly young age several years ago, I have spent hundreds of hours browsing forums and thousands of dollars on solutions (supplements, pharmaceuticals, therapy, meditation, counseling, lifestyle change and any suggestions) people gave. I feel I am in no better shape now than I was then. Across all forums, all participants were either wanting some combination of happiness, motivation, better concentration, or less anxiety. At some point all of those people had hope in finding something to help whatever ailment they had. Nearly every user fell into the same pattern I did, try a new solution and feel great for several days, then after the placebo effect wears off, life goes back down to where it was before until the next bubble of hope for a new solution comes. I do not want to waste this thread on just my problems, so I'm leaving the history of what I've tried and what I'm trying to make better out of this. I chose this site to post my question because the users on this site seem to understand how medicines/supplements and details of brain chemistry work better than most users from other sites.

I understand everyone's brain chemistry is different and as a result will react differently to certain supplements. Are there ANY solutions (supplements, pharmaceuticals, therapy, meditation, counseling, lifestyle changes) that are even 95% effective for ANY of the following: anxiety, add, depression, motivation? Is it possible there are some people who are so changed by life events that nothing will work to cure or lessen their emotional ailments?

Edited by bob12, 17 June 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[jly1986]

I suppose substances which are truly effective at mind alteration become scheduled by regulatory agencies, and you can only get them by prescription through your physician. There's non-responders to even those substances, as well, so I guess nothing is 100%.

Edited by jly1986, 17 June 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[niner]

It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for better health, then yes, there are things that work for most people. They will probably work more or less well, depending on exactly what your present condition is. The things that work are not necessarily "easy". They are things like eating right for your particular genome, exercising properly, and sleeping properly. There are some things that come out of a bottle that "work", but they will be different for different people, and for some people there will be no magic elixir. In the psychiatric/psychological realm, it's harder. Depending on what your issues are, the things that are helpful for general health may also be helpful for your mental state. I don't think anything is guaranteed, certainly not at the 95% success level, but cognitive behavioral therapy has a pretty good track record.

[Reformed-Redan]

If you mean beating depression, then no there is no magical pill that will lift it-though many people search for it like the holy grail. It takes a combination of things. The determination to survive and get better (taking care of oneself), patience, and knowledge about yourself. Personally, the most effective supplements I would list are; ALCAR, ginseng complex, DLPA (once in a while), Zinc, DHA+uridine, and deprenyl (although the last is not a supplement.) It won't work right away; but, over time it will help.

Edited by yadayada, 17 June 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Q did it!]

niner pretty much hit it on the head. All I would add is meditation can be very helpful in finding happiness in oneself.

[bob12]

It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for better health, then yes, there are things that work for most people. They will probably work more or less well, depending on exactly what your present condition is. The things that work are not necessarily "easy". They are things like eating right for your particular genome, exercising properly, and sleeping properly. There are some things that come out of a bottle that "work", but they will be different for different people, and for some people there will be no magic elixir. In the psychiatric/psychological realm, it's harder. Depending on what your issues are, the things that are helpful for general health may also be helpful for your mental state. I don't think anything is guaranteed, certainly not at the 95% success level, but cognitive behavioral therapy has a pretty good track record.

For me personally I've been on a gluten free diet for almost a year now after hearing that gave people more energy and made them feel less depressed. I completed a marathon this spring and am training for an up coming triathlon. I have 6.8% bodyfat and workout 6 days a week. I take a yoga/meditation class 3 times a week. Most nights I get 8 hours of sleep, on bad nights I get 6. I am serious when I say I have tried everything suggested to me. The only line I drew was my doctor wants to try out even more meds that I don't want to chance since he's tried 7 meds that all failed after taking them for months at a time. In the past 8 years I've seen 5 different counselors (psychologist, 3 cbt, counselors) and spent several thousand dollars on them and don't feel any better now than I did to start with. At this point in my life the only thing I feel motivated to do is find something that will work. Is there anything that has an incredibly high success rate?

[YOLF]

What did your parents die of? Can you describe any physical ailments?

I've expressed quite a bit of my thoughts on depression in the topic below and at one point gave up on studying psych and related skills after years of studying it and related fields (media/comm and a little HR stuff mostly). The direction of the industry as a whole IMO creates a substatial problem. Don't forget to post in the introduce yourself forum.

http://www.longecity...o-hard-to-beat/

Cautionary discussion ALCAR:
www.longecity.org/forum/topic/64103-new-member/

Edited by cryonicsculture, 17 June 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[alan.r]

My own approach for what its worth:

A period of depression, hopelessness and stress-induced anxiety (related to more or less traumatic events and personal losses) was self-treated with cigarettes and alcohol and the occasional recreational drug. Throwing chronic insomnia into the mix made for a long period that I don't remember much of. I was working and making a living, so there's that, but mostly living day-to-day without any particular quality of conscious activity, without being of much use to anybody, and certainly having no long-term plans to remain alive or build toward anything.

Which puts a floor on things. At about 40 I began to think of the things that I had wanted to accomplish as a child - there was still an accessible glimmer of that. 40 years old was a good age to realize that I could just keep sinking and eventually just die, having gotten nothing done, missed by few, recognized as wasted potential (if recognized at all). Which I could easily do, simply by changing nothing. So I let that percolate on the back burner awhile and decided that the miserable stupid life I was living might as well end NOW as years from now, for all the difference it made to anyone, and that I would just suppose it was done, over, and start on a new life.

So I gradually changed things, and set a course to better things. Just a bit of progress here and there, as its not where you are that's important, but the direction you are heading. I cut down the smoking, no more drugs, I started reading again. I started taking vitamins, getting some exercise and eating better. I went back to college in a distance program, I quit smoking, I started regular exercise. I began to write a paper that I had been working on since I was a kid (still working on it), I quit drinking. Exercise led to health, and just for fun I began to compete in athletics. I still do fairly well. I added Piracetam to my regimen, and I think that's the final piece to mending old damage.

But it all starts with deciding to live well. Perhaps you have to see what living poorly and dying looks like before you can really make that decision, I don't know, but it seems to be a pretty crooked path for most everyone. And it is much easier to fail. Its certainly a lot less work to fail, which is why so many people never really get off the couch, so to speak...anyway, I hope it helps, and good luck.

editing - I also added spirulina early, as that had been a good thing when I was young. I replaced that with regular whey protein supplements as a part of exercise routine. I also took DHEA for a time, as that had also been recommended to me when I was young. That's a testosterone thing, which I stopped when I got more serious in athletics (WADA-banned). I take cordyceps now. I don't know for sure if either had much effect, but testosterone enhancers can have a good impact on motivation. Downsides as well, of course.

Edited by alan.r, 17 June 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[rwac]

I understand everyone's brain chemistry is different and as a result will react differently to certain supplements. Are there ANY solutions (supplements, pharmaceuticals, therapy, meditation, counseling, lifestyle changes) that are even 95% effective for ANY of the following: anxiety, add, depression, motivation? Is it possible there are some people who are so changed by life events that nothing will work to cure or lessen their emotional ailments?

What will help all those things is to have a high metabolism. There are ways to increase metabolism, but be warned some of the advice tends to go against conventional (and forum) wisdom.

I was vegetarian for 28 years. I tried low fat (80/10/10?), and then tried Paleo low-carb. for a bit. Low-carb did help for a bit, but it's very stressful and hard to keep up. Finally what really helped is to maintain a high metabolism, the first step being to minimize PUFA(yes, omega-3 too) and fiber.

[YOLF]

My own approach for what its worth:

A period of depression, hopelessness and stress-induced anxiety (related to more or less traumatic events and personal losses) was self-treated with cigarettes and alcohol and the occasional recreational drug. Throwing chronic insomnia into the mix made for a long period that I don't remember much of. I was working and making a living, so there's that, but mostly living day-to-day without any particular quality of conscious activity, without being of much use to anybody, and certainly having no long-term plans to remain alive or build toward anything.

Which puts a floor on things. At about 40 I began to think of the things that I had wanted to accomplish as a child - there was still an accessible glimmer of that. 40 years old was a good age to realize that I could just keep sinking and eventually just die, having gotten nothing done, missed by few, recognized as wasted potential (if recognized at all). Which I could easily do, simply by changing nothing. So I let that percolate on the back burner awhile and decided that the miserable stupid life I was living might as well end NOW as years from now, for all the difference it made to anyone, and that I would just suppose it was done, over, and start on a new life.

So I gradually changed things, and set a course to better things. Just a bit of progress here and there, as its not where you are that's important, but the direction you are heading. I cut down the smoking, no more drugs, I started reading again. I started taking vitamins, getting some exercise and eating better. I went back to college in a distance program, I quit smoking, I started regular exercise. I began to write a paper that I had been working on since I was a kid (still working on it), I quit drinking. Exercise led to health, and just for fun I began to compete in athletics. I still do fairly well. I added Piracetam to my regimen, and I think that's the final piece to mending old damage.

But it all starts with deciding to live well. Perhaps you have to see what living poorly and dying looks like before you can really make that decision, I don't know, but it seems to be a pretty crooked path for most everyone. And it is much easier to fail. Its certainly a lot less work to fail, which is why so many people never really get off the couch, so to speak...anyway, I hope it helps, and good luck.

editing - I also added spirulina early, as that had been a good thing when I was young. I replaced that with regular whey protein supplements as a part of exercise routine. I also took DHEA for a time, as that had also been recommended to me when I was young. That's a testosterone thing, which I stopped when I got more serious in athletics (WADA-banned). I take cordyceps now. I don't know for sure if either had much effect, but testosterone enhancers can have a good impact on motivation. Downsides as well, of course.

What downsides are there to testosterone enhancers... I keep hearing people talk about it like T is bad for you... maybe it's just the stuff in the T enhancers... I'm not seeing anything serious for non synthetic forms...

[alan.r]

What downsides are there to testosterone enhancers... I keep hearing people talk about it like T is bad for you... maybe it's just the stuff in the T enhancers... I'm not seeing anything serious for non synthetic forms...

Testosterone is a hormone that the body produces naturally, and always wants to keep in balance. Whether you take synthetics or natural forms, your body stops its own production, and if you take them long enough that damages the body's ability to produce it at all. Which can lead to bone density loss, obesity, and all the other low-testosterone symptoms if you ever go off synthetics. Old bodybuilders, football players and some cyclists are examples.

The other side of that coin is that if you have normal testosterone to begin with, which most people probably do, the only way you get an effect from synthetics is to go artificially high with them. Which (in addition to the above) can give you acne, weight gain, severe mood swings (including "roid rage") and personality changes.

Moderation might be the key, but testosterone is a tricky thing to fool with. You can get immediate results, but the ground is always shifting under your feet, so to speak. I take cordyceps, which is a mild support for your body's natural production of testosterone, and seems to have no side-effect or dependency issues.

Edited by alan.r, 17 June 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[sthira]

Are there ANY solutions (supplements, pharmaceuticals, therapy, meditation, counseling, lifestyle changes) that are even 95% effective for ANY of the following: anxiety, add, depression, motivation? Is it possible there are some people who are so changed by life events that nothing will work to cure or lessen their emotional ailments?

Fine comments here all around by thoughtful people. I don't think you can tag a effectiveness number (eg, 95%) to health and healing modalities. But we can find rules of thumb on our individual crooked paths. Some things work better than others, obviously. And yet some things we notice working -- we're conscious of their positive effects (eg, quit smoking, drinking, drugging; start exercising, meditation, sleeping) and other things we're less conscious of and don't really feel working (supplements, diet).

What things are healthy and good, and yet may not be felt?

[niner]

What things are healthy and good, and yet may not be felt?

Anything that is taken to prevent disease or forestall aging. You can't feel "not having a stroke" or "not getting cancer" or "not feeling crappier than yesterday or last year", but they're sure as hell better than the alternative. Most of the things we take can't be "felt". If you do feel them, then they are probably fixing a problem that you had, whether you were aware of it or not. Occasionally, something like c60-oo will come along that make you in some ways "better than normal". Even there, in the case of something like improved aerobic performance, you won't know about it unless you look for it.

Recreational drugs and certain nootropics are meant to be felt, and if you don't feel anything, you can drop them with some confidence. Otherwise, you might need to find some more sophisticated metrics in order to know if things are helping or not. Most of us are probably wasting money on some of what we take, because we don't have (or can't afford) ways to tell if it's really working.

[YOLF]

What downsides are there to testosterone enhancers... I keep hearing people talk about it like T is bad for you... maybe it's just the stuff in the T enhancers... I'm not seeing anything serious for non synthetic forms...

Testosterone is a hormone that the body produces naturally, and always wants to keep in balance. Whether you take synthetics or natural forms, your body stops its own production, and if you take them long enough that damages the body's ability to produce it at all. Which can lead to bone density loss, obesity, and all the other low-testosterone symptoms if you ever go off synthetics. Old bodybuilders, football players and some cyclists are examples.

The other side of that coin is that if you have normal testosterone to begin with, which most people probably do, the only way you get an effect from synthetics is to go artificially high with them. Which (in addition to the above) can give you acne, weight gain, severe mood swings (including "roid rage") and personality changes.

Moderation might be the key, but testosterone is a tricky thing to fool with. You can get immediate results, but the ground is always shifting under your feet, so to speak. I take cordyceps, which is a mild support for your body's natural production of testosterone, and seems to have no side-effect or dependency issues.

The synthetic forms of T are no longer available, they have long been removed, maybe even by the FDA. BB's regularly develop higher demand for T and thus higher production. It seems to me that muscle mass and muscle to fat ratio determines output in most cases.

[YOLF]

What things are healthy and good, and yet may not be felt?

Anything that is taken to prevent disease or forestall aging. You can't feel "not having a stroke" or "not getting cancer" or "not feeling crappier than yesterday or last year", but they're sure as hell better than the alternative. Most of the things we take can't be "felt". If you do feel them, then they are probably fixing a problem that you had, whether you were aware of it or not. Occasionally, something like c60-oo will come along that make you in some ways "better than normal". Even there, in the case of something like improved aerobic performance, you won't know about it unless you look for it.

Recreational drugs and certain nootropics are meant to be felt, and if you don't feel anything, you can drop them with some confidence. Otherwise, you might need to find some more sophisticated metrics in order to know if things are helping or not. Most of us are probably wasting money on some of what we take, because we don't have (or can't afford) ways to tell if it's really working.

Maybe the question would be better phrased as what would work best? This would give us a direction to move in improving what we have...

[bob12]

Thanks for the responses, but I'm still looking. I've never done an illegal drug in my life and I only drink alcohol (2-3 drinks) 4 times or less a year. I'm not looking for a preventative for something that could happen in the future. I just want to know what's effective and will have the best chance of working for 5 year long present time emotional ailments.

[MrJBSmith]

What I found to work for me, for related issues (arguably more severe), listed in order of effectiveness

-mindfulness and ACT
-keeping a grateful journal, and answering/facing the question "what good did I do for others today?"
-increased daily dietary fat intake
-daily sex
-intermittent fasting every day, with a whole day fast once a week
-daily swimming (with head under water/ then breathing)
-specifically activating/exercising prefrontal cortex
-supplementing: probiotic, spirulina, fish oil, glutamine, vitamin D, creatine + AOR core+mito+mind

[YOLF]

You could take a little bit of D3 (you don't need too much, 3-4K ius a day is more than enough. Fast absorption makes the difference.

Oxytocin Acetate is the neuro hormone that is responsible for emotional well being. I'd try taking that.

OA comes in a sublingual dropper bottle, a nasal spray, and a body spray (yes you can just breath it in while wearing it to improve your mood). It's marketed for other things, and I wouldn't use it too long term, but I'd definitely give it a try and learn from the experience.

Drops/nasal spray:
https://abcnutri1.in.../home/pcaramic/

Body Spray:
http://www.shareasal...link=&afftrack=

It's easy to take too much with the drops/nasal stuff, I found the body spray to be the best option. There are also some British pharmacies that will sell you the pharma grade stuff or if you have a nice enough doc you can get it by prescription.